Fantastic Four (2015)

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by chip75

Spite is a big factor, pride is another. If Fox sold the rights back to Marvel and Marvel made a 600 million dollar hit, they'd have egg on their face. Studios are all about one-upmanship over one another. Nobody wants to let a property go and see it become a blockbuster with another studio.

I'm not sure how bad the numbers are with Fantastic Four, but it won't be long before Fox start thinking about redeveloping the property once again. Marvel won't pay anywhere near what Fox think the property could potential gain with a hit movie, they just see it as a goose that's laid a few broken eggs and they're waiting for a golden one to drop. It may sound like insanity to the rest of us but that's how they operate. They don't sell properties that could make hundreds of millions of dollars unless they're extremely well compensated.

No studios do not keep properties that will lose them money. Hence why Sony was quick to sell back Ghost Rider back to Marvel after Spirit of Vengence flopped. Studios aren't in the mood on spending money to keep properties nobody wants to see. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 for example grossed $708 million yet Sony still found making a deal with Marvel more profitable than continuing to go on their own. The Fantastic Four will be lucky to gross 1/4 that amount

Marvel needs to pounce. With Fox officially wanting to make an X-men TV series Marvel should offer Fox X-men television rights and a deal to give Fox a greater percentage of X-men merchandising rights to help get X-men merchandise back on the shelves in exchange for full rights back to The Fantastic Four and all characters connected to them. Fox would be morons to say no to such an offer and both parties would benefit in the long run

[spectre08]

except that Marvel has nothing to gain except appeasing fanbois by getting back Fantastic Four.

They don't NEED it, and if they spend 1 penny on it it'll just replace something else they would have released and made money with anyways.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by spectre08

except that Marvel has nothing to gain except appeasing fanbois by getting back Fantastic Four.

They don't NEED it, and if they spend 1 penny on it it'll just replace something else they would have released and made money with anyways.

You're dead wrong on account of FF having some of the best vilains in the MU.

Eventually Marvel might be able to reboot FF in one form or another, but their first family isn't why they have interest in the property.

Fox probably was hoping for either a First Class quality reboot and a new universe to milk beside Xmen, or at the very least to increase the value of the property before reselling it to Disney.

Kinda failed on both counts.

[bobbydrugar]

Its not that they need the Fantastic 4 back but there are a ludicrous number of other properties (locations, Villains, and tie-in storylines) that would benefit Marvel in the long run. They have already tried to negotiate for Galactus which would be a wonderful galactic foil for phase 4 and beyond properties. Plus regaining access to the Skrulls would bring story lines like the skrull/Kree war back to possible.

T

[Doctor Jack]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

You're dead wrong on account of FF having some of the best vilains in the MU.

Eventually Marvel might be able to reboot FF in one form or another, but their first family isn't why they have interest in the property.

Exactly. I've said many times in this thread that Marvel needs the villains. Not the Fantastic Four. Galactus and Silver Surfer especially.

[Scorpion Soldier]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jack

Exactly. I've said many times in this thread that Marvel needs the villains. Not the Fantastic Four. Galactus and Silver Surfer especially.

Galactus and Silver Surfer are some of the biggest since you can do so much without even involving the Fantastic Four. Even Doom can be done without the FF, though the set-up might need to be altered a bit, but I always thought that most of the FF villains work with and without them involved.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by spectre08

except that Marvel has nothing to gain except appeasing fanbois by getting back Fantastic Four.

They don't NEED it, and if they spend 1 penny on it it'll just replace something else they would have released and made money with anyways.

By that same reasoning the deal Marvel made with Sony would never have happened. After all Captain America Civil War and Avengers Infinity Wars would still be hits without Spider-Man so why should Marvel spend a dime helping Sony make Spider-Man movies in their universe? Yet the deal did happen because Marvel wants all their characters in their universe

The deal many have proposed of Marvel trading X-men television and greater percentage of merchandising rights for The Fantastic Four rights is a huge win win for both studios. Both studios would trade a property that is making them no money for something that potentially could. Marvel isn't going to produce an X-men TV series on their own because they aren't going to make something to promote Fox's movies and they aren't at the moment making any X-men toys or other merchandise so having the rights to these things isn't making them a cent. For Fox it would be losing a property that just cost them 60 million dollars for greater control of a franchise that has been a huge hit for them and shows no signs of slowing down. Win win if their ever was one

Why even state a desire to make an X-men TV series if they weren't willing to deal? They had to know Marvel isn't going to let them without them giving something up so them stating a desire to make an X-men TV series is essentially publically stating we are willing to trade

[motorheadache95]

[QUOTE=GC Riot;11176368]Okay, so having seen this, I guess I should give my thoughts on them and you all will be telling me how WRONG I am.

The first two thirds of this were good, really good actually. The childhood scenes I didn't care for much, but once they were adults, the film really found its own identity. I loved seeing these different people coming together building something inspiring, and the dialogue wasn't at all as clunky and cringeworthy as trailers would have you believe. The chemistry worked, the acting was solid, and I had no problem with the lack of explosions and this being set mostly in a lab. I was pulled in.

The highlight for me was when the team had gotten their powers, as the direction made it clear that this isn't something anyone is happy about. We see these people scared and horrified of what they've become, and the talked about Cronenberg-vibe is there in full force. This I feel is something not explored in a great deal in comic book films, and I really appreciate the serious tone which they treat this aspect of the film with. I was on board, I was really enjoying this experience up until Reed escapes.

/QUOTE]

Oh my god you're so wrong. Like, dead wrong. You're so wrong it's wrong. Somebody open the window and let some of that wrong out.



Seriously though, I fully intend to see this movie (once I can rent it at Redox for 2 bucks ) and I'm actually looking forward to it to see what I think. I doubt I'll think it's any good, but it seems like some people think the film was promising until we get to that jump cut and the obvious reshoots. It definitely makes me curious to find out if Trank's original intended movie might have been any good or received a bit better.

[bluearth]

A director's second movie is his most important one. Trank made the mistake of choosing the diseased Fantastic 4 as his second project.

The problem with the Fantastic 4 is at its core its incredibly silly and lousy. Their powers are horrid. Nobody says "I wish I was a ball of fire, stretch armstrong, or a clay monster!" Seriously, who wants to walk around on fire? These are some of the most moronic powers. Its like Stan Lee or whoever thought of them did so while taking a dump and reading a newspaper. If you look at the origin of many comic book names and powers, usually very little thought is put into creating them. That was definitely the case here.

Trank should have turned the project down, but as a young director perhaps he felt invincible, that he could put his style to work with any film and it would turn out great. But he didnt count on studio and fan meddling.

Tranks fingerprints are seen all over the film early. Realistic, dark family life is depicted, not the typical Hollywood idealized or dysfunctional family. Character interactions are sincere and grounded as Trank pulls away Hollywoods glamorized heightened reality curtains. Many will find such interactions boring, as it reminds them of their own dead end life. Thats not what they go to the theaters to see. Most people want to live vicariously through the selfish, immoral life of Tony Stark. Or fill themselves with old fashioned pride when they chear on Captain America as he pulverizes his enemies.

Trank, obviously a victim of some childhood trauma, sees the world through his camera as it is, without Marvels rose colored tint or Snyder surrealism or Nolan esque coldness. That world, the real world, scares people. And they go to the theaters to escape it. Though they put on the pretense they believe that in 2015 things are better then ever, what they want from their films says quite the opposite.

Trank is the skeleton in the closet which was unwittingly released for 2 films. The first nobody paid much attention to because it felt gimmicky - though it accurately portrayed the condition of contemporary 1st world man - vain, selfish, and above all, unhappy. The 2nd film got heat because it brought alot of people back down to reality using a popular comic. Trank's real world realities (interracial families etc) proved too much for a society which claims to be tolerant, but of course is anything but.

Technically Trank's film is flawed. Young Reed has a fantastic machine, but we're never treated to seeing him build it or testing it before it actually works. So its reveal and application have no weight. The film as a whole feels as if 10-15 minutes are missing somewhere, scenes which would have possibly fixed issues like the initial teleport machine not feeling like it was much of an accomplishment. All in all its a simple case of too many cooks in the kitchen.

2/5

[X400]

I'm surprised it didn't lose theatre rooms and actually gained 9 of them

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by bluearth

A director's second movie is his most important one. Trank made the mistake of choosing the diseased Fantastic 4 as his second project.

The problem with the Fantastic 4 is at its core its incredibly silly and lousy. Their powers are horrid. Nobody says "I wish I was a ball of fire, stretch armstrong, or a clay monster!" Seriously, who wants to walk around on fire? These are some of the most moronic powers. Its like Stan Lee or whoever thought of them did so while taking a dump and reading a newspaper. If you look at the origin of many comic book names and powers, usually very little thought is put into creating them. That was definitely the case here.

Trank should have turned the project down, but as a young director perhaps he felt invincible, that he could put his style to work with any film and it would turn out great. But he didnt count on studio and fan meddling.

Tranks fingerprints are seen all over the film early. Realistic, dark family life is depicted, not the typical Hollywood idealized or dysfunctional family. Character interactions are sincere and grounded as Trank pulls away Hollywoods glamorized heightened reality curtains. Many will find such interactions boring, as it reminds them of their own dead end life. Thats not what they go to the theaters to see. Most people want to live vicariously through the selfish, immoral life of Tony Stark. Or fill themselves with old fashioned pride when they chear on Captain America as he pulverizes his enemies.

Trank, obviously a victim of some childhood trauma, sees the world through his camera as it is, without Marvels rose colored tint or Snyder surrealism or Nolan esque coldness. That world, the real world, scares people. And they go to the theaters to escape it. Though they put on the pretense they believe that in 2015 things are better then ever, what they want from their films says quite the opposite.

Trank is the skeleton in the closet which was unwittingly released for 2 films. The first nobody paid much attention to because it felt gimmicky - though it accurately portrayed the condition of contemporary 1st world man - vain, selfish, and above all, unhappy. The 2nd film got heat because it brought alot of people back down to reality using a popular comic. Trank's real world realities (interracial families etc) proved too much for a society which claims to be tolerant, but of course is anything but.

Technically Trank's film is flawed. Young Reed has a fantastic machine, but we're never treated to seeing him build it or testing it before it actually works. So its reveal and application have no weight. The film as a whole feels as if 10-15 minutes are missing somewhere, scenes which would have possibly fixed issues like the initial teleport machine not feeling like it was much of an accomplishment. All in all its a simple case of too many cooks in the kitchen.

2/5

I really thought these insights were interesting and I agree with a lot of it. You make no mention of the part that everyone seemingly has problems with though, that rushed, undercooked third act. I know I'm beating a dead horse bringing that up now, but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts about the film from the "one year later" point onwards.

[Mobe1969]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

I really thought these insights were interesting and I agree with a lot of it. You make no mention of the part that everyone seemingly has problems with though, that rushed, undercooked third act. I know I'm beating a dead horse bringing that up now, but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts about the film from the "one year later" point onwards.

As along time comic reader (since the 70s), I always thought Fantastic Four just seemed frankly stupid. I then saw the 2005 film and really liked it. And the sequel. I then got back into reading comics after a hiatus and boght that Stan Lee FF silver age and loved it. The writing was fantastic. I've got the Byrne run, Mark Wait, Faction, and other runs and think they are all great. The Ultimate material though, seriously is really hard to take.I like all the other Ultimate takes, but Fantastic Four, particularly Reed, is pretty hard to stomach. I mean Reed in modern 616 is borderline bad in moral terms, but in Ultimates, he is just plain evil.

I still thoroughly enjoy the Story movies.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

No studios do not keep properties that will lose them money.

This may have t[r]anked at the box-office, but I doubt it will lose that much money, after rentals and home video sales. I'd imagine the BD will do quite well.

Marvel needs to pounce. With Fox officially wanting to make an X-men TV series Marvel should offer Fox X-men television rights and a deal to give Fox a greater percentage of X-men merchandising rights to help get X-men merchandise back on the shelves in exchange for full rights back to The Fantastic Four and all characters connected to them.

Why would Marvel give Fox rights to the make a TV show of the X-Men? Agents of Shield and Agent Carter are very popular and under their control. I'd imagine Marvel will want to make a X-Men TV show or at least have strong input into it (if they let anyone else make it). It wouldn't make sense to give a studio TV rights to a valuable property they own in return for rights to a property that just bombed. Marvel just have to let Fox do the heavy lifting with the X-Men movies and create they're own TV series, or let Fox make it whilst under their creative control.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by chip75

This may have t[r]anked at the box-office, but I doubt it will lose that much money, after rentals and home video sales. I'd imagine the BD will do quite well.



Why would Marvel give Fox rights to the make a TV show of the X-Men? Agents of Shield and Agent Carter are very popular and under their control. I'd imagine Marvel will want to make a X-Men TV show or at least have strong input into it (if they let anyone else make it). It wouldn't make sense to give a studio TV rights to a valuable property they own in return for rights to a property that just bombed. Marvel just have to let Fox do the heavy lifting with the X-Men movies and create they're own TV series, or let Fox make it whilst under their creative control.

no way that Marvel ever makes an X-Men tv show now that they've made it clear even their tv shows are canon to the MCU.

Introducing mutants into that universe would be an absolute mess and cause more continuity problems and logical issues than are worth dealing with.

Besides, in case you haven't figured it out already, Marvel is much more interested in introducing people to characters the mass public isn't familiar with yet. Doing so gives them much more freedom to creating them how they want for the MCU, as well as expanding the demand for tangential products like comic books, trades, graphic novels, etc.


With AoS bringing Inhumans into the fold the X-Men are obsolete. The Inhumans can fill the same "lots of people with powers ranging from mediocre to epic" niche that X-Men fills, with the added bonus of already established tie-ins with MCU plot elements like the Kree.


No, much better for Marvel to let Fox run with a tv show based on their successful X-Men cinematic series and mooch benefits through comic and toy sales driven by the work Fox is doing.

[Underworld54]

Marvel should buy it, and since the franchise is toxic they should introduce the characters into other movies before going on and releasing a F4 movie. They could introduce Reed, Silver Surfer, and Doctor Doom all at separate times.

[mastadge]

Originally Posted by spectre08

Introducing mutants into that universe would be an absolute mess and cause more continuity problems and logical issues than are worth dealing with.

They could go back to basics on that one. Have an event that introduces mutations in a handful of kids, start a school, boom, easy.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by mastadge

They could go back to basics on that one. Have an event that introduces mutations in a handful of kids, start a school, boom, easy.

they would definitely have to go the "there are only a small handful of mutants in the entire world" route instead of Singer's "MUTANTS ARE EVERYWHERE!" route.

[Lt. Brannigan]

Originally Posted by spectre08

they would definitely have to go the "there are only a small handful of mutants in the entire world" route instead of Singer's "MUTANTS ARE EVERYWHERE!" route.

No... we need Wanda to cast spell and wipe mutants out of existence. But somehow only the most powerful are immune.

[MovieKing101]

I think when Marvel gains rights to FF, that includes Galactus and Silver Surfer.

Galactus/Silver Surger can be the next villain for a Marvel film and then have Nick Fury introduce FF into the Avengers. Then just have a 5 min history lesson of how they came to be blah blah and there ya go.

Cuz we sure as hell don't need another origin story.

[bobbydrugar]

Never understood all the hate towards Origin Stories. If we don't get one everyone complains that the characters have no defined motivation to do what they do.. Or I don't understand how the rules in this world work. Origin stories are more then just here is how the characters came to be but also used to define the rules the world they inhabit work as well as general character building necessary to buy they characters as believable in the world they inhabit.

T