Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[nissling]

While I buy most of my modern games on Steam and listen to pretty much all music through Spotify, I have absolutely no interest in going over to streaming or download for movies. To me, the whole idea of physical media is one of the main reasons why I'm so interested in films. I love to have a physical collection of films that I can look at, feel and touch. I'm so sentimental. And I've never found any digital (legal) alternatives to have decent enough compression or overall PQ for me.

So, even if I'm the last non-digital/all-physical cinephile alround I won't stop for some time. With that said, I fully understand why more and more give up on physical media. I cannot deny the convinience they're granted. And I will also admit that I have become much more picky with my purchases. Mostly because my views on the major studios have changed drastically over the past few years. Seeing WB milking out every single penny they can from the collectors makes me feel sick.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I keep saying it's all Digital, just the form of distribution will change. Discs will keep getting more expensive, and people want the best price for their Movie watching and Collecting. Digital HD is the normal progression, and I say Personal Movie Collections will go on Servers. Those Servers can be located anywhere for the best Streaming Access.

You keep saying disc prices will go up but that just isn't true. The prices of books aren't going up, the prices of cds aren't going up, vhs tapes did not go up and the prices of dvds aren't going up. In general media prices have gone down faster then the rate of inflation. Quite simply a large group of people cant or wont go digital and they wont pay above a certain amount. Movie buyers are for the most part price elastic so you just cant raise prices without making less revenue overall. That's also ignoring a few other factors that force prices low such as that fact that one movie in most cases can be substituted for another (Netflix is built on this) and piracy does exist the higher you push prices the more people will rationalize it.

[Akibiyori]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Wave goodbye to detail and lack of compression artefacts then. oh And top quality audio.

I’m not sure that’s true. I had another Amazon Prime trial last month which I used to watch a number of Arrow titles they carry. The Battles Without Honor and Humanity sequels looked identical to my Blu-ray of the original. I didn’t notice any of the artifacts I expected to - no banding, no noise, no macroblocking. The other films I watched were similarly pristine. I can’t speak for the audio but I don’t see why it couldn’t be just as fine. For the record, I was watching through WiFi via the PS4 Prime Video app with typically 40-50 MB download speeds (basically, Blu-ray bandwidth or better.)

Not all streaming is equal. I also tried FilmStruck and found the quality about on par with my cable. Pretty far from Blu-ray. I was using my iPhone linked to the TV for this so it could have been the app.

If it really came down to it, meaning no more disc based content, I could accept Digital HD and streaming but providers would have to assure that any content you paid for to own will be maintained. If I bought a Japanese film and the rights lapse and go to another company, my purchase needs to be preserved and accessible even after such an event. That version won’t be sold anymore but everyone who has it can still use it - this is something that needs to be sorted out established as fundamentally right between all parties, the licensor, the licensee, the content provider, before I would be comfortable paying for any solely Digital HD content (I do redeem codes that come with discs, which is different.)

Disc is still the only real ownership and that’s my primary sticking point with the streaming future. It’s not quality I’m worried about. Availability is another concern. I can’t buy a digital copy of the Ozu film Late Autumn but that doesn’t matter since I have my Blu-ray and DVD of it. You can’t get any Studio Ghibli through Digital HD or streaming either. A lot of that kind of content will be marginalized further with the push towards the subscription model (which will eventually cost as much as a cable/satellite package.) The current system supports the wide variety of content that I enjoy and the things that I like most - this is not guaranteed to remain in the streaming future.

[IronSoldier]

Originally Posted by Akibiyori

I’m not sure that’s true. I had another Amazon Prime trial last month which I used to watch a number of Arrow titles they carry. The Battles Without Honor and Humanity sequels looked identical to my Blu-ray of the original. I didn’t notice any of the artifacts I expected to - no banding, no noise, no macroblocking. The other films I watched were similarly pristine. I can’t speak for the audio but I don’t see why it couldn’t be just as fine. For the record, I was watching through WiFi via the PS4 Prime Video app with typically 40-50 MB download speeds (basically, Blu-ray bandwidth or better.)

TV Shows stream really well from Amazon. On a Disc each episode of Arrow is around 7.5GB untouched whilst Amazon will stream at a quality which will total to about 4.25GB with just the 5.1 audio per 40 minute episode. So that's about 56% of the size + probably better compression. Compare that to an itunes movies often 5-6GB whereas discs will be 30-40GB, only 15% of the size. The same for TV shows, arrow is about 1.7GB an episode rather than the 7.5GB of bluray (22%). Hence amazon TV shows look great and honestly, i'd much rather have a digital season pass for a TV series, watch as released on Amazon than wait 10 months from first episode for a bluray to be released. TV shows for myself are a digital love affair. Just waiting on films to be upped in quality and other places to follow suit

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by IronSoldier

TV Shows stream really well from Amazon. On a Disc each episode of Arrow is around 7.5GB untouched whilst Amazon will stream at a quality which will total to about 4.25GB with just the 5.1 audio per 40 minute episode. So that's about 56% of the size + probably better compression. Compare that to an itunes movies often 5-6GB whereas discs will be 30-40GB, only 15% of the size. The same for TV shows, arrow is about 1.7GB an episode rather than the 7.5GB of bluray (22%). Hence amazon TV shows look great and honestly, i'd much rather have a digital season pass for a TV series, watch as released on Amazon than wait 10 months from first episode for a bluray to be released. TV shows for myself are a digital love affair. Just waiting on films to be upped in quality and other places to follow suit

So movies on Amazon Video are better quality than on iTunes?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

So movies on Amazon Video are better quality than on iTunes?

No.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I keep saying it's all Digital, just the form of distribution will change. Discs will keep getting more expensive, and people want the best price for their Movie watching and Collecting. Digital HD is the normal progression, and I say Personal Movie Collections will go on Servers. Those Servers can be located anywhere for the best Streaming Access.

Originally Posted by veritas

You keep saying disc prices will go up but that just isn't true. The prices of books aren't going up, the prices of cds aren't going up, vhs tapes did not go up and the prices of dvds aren't going up. In general media prices have gone down faster then the rate of inflation. Quite simply a large group of people cant or wont go digital and they wont pay above a certain amount. Movie buyers are for the most part price elastic so you just cant raise prices without making less revenue overall. That's also ignoring a few other factors that force prices low such as that fact that one movie in most cases can be substituted for another (Netflix is built on this) and piracy does exist the higher you push prices the more people will rationalize it.

Well you're right the Disc prices have not gone up that much because the people will not buy them, but that doesn't mean the Distributors are making a profit. There's Marketing that goes into how they set the prices, having to do with Break Even Points and Profit Margins. Then yes, the prices start to come down to sell off the Inventory. I sell Movies on eBay, and start off with a price that I paid then come down till it sells usually taking a loss. Movies use to sell well, but lately I have to take big losses. I imagine the Distributors are also not seeing the same profits. So the Distributors will make less, fancy them up for the Collectors at a higher price. These are good Marketing Tactics!

[Kage]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Movies use to sell well, but lately I have to take big losses.

I took big losses on physical media when I used to be all in. When I sold movies over ebay, I took a 60% to 70% loss on them, even worse when I sold movies at used movie shops, they gave me about 90% less than I paid for or not taking them at all. Physical media has bad resale value. I rather buy movie codes and buy movies on sale at iTunes. I know that there is no resale value on them, but the sales on iTunes and affordable movie codes make up the difference.

[MrFilmFanatic]

I am really torn over this subject nowadays. I've been collecting physical media since the Columbia House VHS days. I prefer physical media but space is always an issue for me.

One bad thing about collecting today is that a lot new releases on physical media don't get 4K releases but they do in digital (ex. "Only The Brave" & "Suburbicon"). It is so aggravating. I started out in digital using VUDU because I could convert my physical library to digital for $1 -$2 each. Last week I bought an Apple 4K TV and I absolutely love it! The menus are just like blu-ray menus and quality has been great so far too.

Below is my current criteria for buying:

1. 4K UHD disc > 4K digital
2. 4K digital > Blu-ray
3. Blu-ray and HD digital are equal depending on how much I like the movie and the price

I also usually check to see if Walmart offer instawatch on titles so I can maximize my digital redemption choices. Lady Bird was instawatch eligible so I will use my digital code in itunes so I have both in my Vudu and itunes library.

Again it is so aggravating keeping track of all the quirks in digital MA, UV, etc.

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by MrFilmFanatic

I am really torn over this subject nowadays. I've been collecting physical media since the Columbia House VHS days. I prefer physical media but space is always an issue for me.

One bad thing about collecting today is that a lot new releases on physical media don't get 4K releases but they do in digital (ex. "Only The Brave" & "Suburbicon"). It is so aggravating. I started out in digital using VUDU because I could convert my physical library to digital for $1 -$2 each. Last week I bought an Apple 4K TV and I absolutely love it! The menus are just like blu-ray menus and quality has been great so far too.

Below is my current criteria for buying:

1. 4K UHD disc > 4K digital
2. 4K digital > Blu-ray
3. Blu-ray and HD digital are equal depending on how much I like the movie and the price

I also usually check to see if Walmart offer instawatch on titles so I can maximize my digital redemption choices. Lady Bird was instawatch eligible so I will use my digital code in itunes so I have both in my Vudu and itunes library.

Again it is so aggravating keeping track of all the quirks in digital MA, UV, etc.

I'm in the same boat as you. I either want to be all in one or the other. But I doubt that'll be possible because there's so many cult films not on iTunes but at the same time I don't really have a desire to own a physical version of a mainstream Hollywood blockbuster. I can probably see myself going 50/50 in the future. Maybe...

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by MrFilmFanatic

I am really torn over this subject nowadays. I've been collecting physical media since the Columbia House VHS days. I prefer physical media but space is always an issue for me.

What do you expect? Do you have to buy every Blu-ray movie that's released, including UV downloads?...You have over 8,000 movies, and most likely you're still buying more, and there is no way that you could possibly watch all of those movies and digital downloads, and I bet the majority of those movies are still brand new and sealed. You have a dilemma that's very easy to resolve...Stop buying and downloading! Owning 8,000 movies is extremely compulsive and very expensive. When are you going to start telling yourself that: enough is enough! There is a different of being a film buff, than just buying and hoarding tons of movies just because you can afford it.

[MrFilmFanatic]

I'm sorry is this not a blu-ray collecting site? I do not own over 8,000 movies. My digital collection is practically the same as my physical. If you think I have a lot then you need to check this site out more lol. I collect like most others here so I have it available to watch anytime I feel like it. Digital is convenient when you are on the go. I rarely if ever watch live TV. Just my preference.

[Vilya]

^ I read this post just in time! I came within 1,000 movies of being diagnosed by Dr. slimdude with having a compulsive disorder! Imagine my relief!

[PCFan]

I noticed that in some of the digital movies in my iTunes library have closed captioning displayed by default and I have to manually select off in the movie subtitles settings. I'm not talking about subtitles during foreign language. One example is the movie Instructions Not Included in my iTunes library. Is the studio to blame for this? The one in my Vudu library does not have this issue. The Closed Captioning setting is set to off on my Apple TV 4k. Has this closed captioning issue ever happened to a movie released on DVD or Blu-ray?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well you're right the Disc prices have not gone up that much because the people will not buy them, but that doesn't mean the Distributors are making a profit.

I am a "people" and I buy them. The studios keep releasing them, each and every week without fail; are they doing it just for me? Are they doing it because they enjoy losing money? I am going to take a big guess here, but I suspect that the studios know their business better than you do.

On the same thread page, you said "discs will keep getting more expensive" to "prices have not gone up much." You need not contradict yourself; allow us the pleasure of pointing out your fallacies.

[Vor4]

Originally Posted by PCFan

I noticed that in some of the digital movies in my iTunes library have closed captioning displayed by default and I have to manually turn off the close captioning in the movie subtitles settings. I'm not talking about subtitles during foreign language. One example is the movie Instructions Not Included in my iTunes library. Is the studio to blame for this? The one in my Vudu library does not have this issue. The Closed Captioning setting is set to off on my Apple TV 4k. Has this closed captioning issue ever happened to a movie released on DVD or Blu-ray?

Its the studios fault. Sometimes in the past they don't double check the quality of the file before they released it. It just takes about two seconds to disable the subtitles. Apple is aggressively telling the studios to double check the movie files before sending them. I haven't seen in subtitles issues in iTunes since last year. I seen the same issue in blu-rays when I was all in with physical media.

[moviegeek1992]

Speaking of subtitles. I asked in the iTunes subsection but thought I'd ask here as well, when watching a foreign film say Indian, French etc on iTunes. Can the translated subtitles be disabled? Or are they burned in the image?

[Naiera]

Of course they can be disabled.

[Trace Buster Buster]

I live in a 1 bedroom apartment and have plenty of space for my physical media but I don't have some chick telling me how to live. Maybe I'm the minority.

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by Naiera

Of course they can be disabled.

Thanks just wasn't sure as I assumed they might have been burnt onto the picture