Invasion of the Body Snatchers 4K UHD (1978)

[strumdogg]

Originally Posted by Matt89

Furthermore, people on here would criticize releases much less often if studios just did things right in the first place. QC is a shitshow in most cases and if these discs were properly mastered from the start it wouldn't be the consumers noticing the various problems.

~Matt

Oh Hi!

I'd just like to make sure this is referring to IOTBS.


Furthermore, I'd hate for the focus of the thread to get off-track, since they are too important to the discussion.

[Matt89]

Originally Posted by strumdogg

Oh Hi!

I'd just like to make sure this is referring to IOTBS.


Furthermore, I'd hate for the focus of the thread to get off-track, since they are too important to the discussion.

Yeah Invasion is one of those very discs with mediocre compression.

I've definitely seen worse but this disc could be better.

In the end, the blu-ray still looks better than SF's previous edition and Kino carried over all the extras anyway so there's no loss. It's just that the UHD could look better than it does.

~Matt

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by Matt89

Here's the thing:

You should be able to take a screenshot of ANY FRAME from said film and the encoding, good or bad, should be made visible. If you're able to capture bad compression from just a single frame, chances are it's visible in many others. It's not like we found the ONE frame that was bad and all the rest are cherry. In motion it can ameliorate the issues somewhat, sure, but if it's visible in a cap it'll be visible in motion. And if some studios can put out discs with great encoding, it makes you wonder why some don't when they charge a premium price for a premium format. I mean, there's a reason we buy UHDs over streaming.

And there are certainly discs to gush over. And people have, in fact. Check out the feedback from most of Arrow's UHDs, or some of Kino's earlier ones (basically everything up until SOTL). The point is, a lot of discs do have issues with them and I'd rather people on here notice these sorts of things rather than them getting swept under the rug because some average Joe reviewer on YT didn't notice them. These kinds of criticisms in the past have led to numerous replacement programs in order to correct the errors on various releases. Sometimes you do get a virtually flawless encode (the Dawn of the Dead UHDs from SecondSight come to mind - those got pretty much universal praise), but sometimes studios shit the bed with a terrible encode of an otherwise nice restoration (SF's Halloween UHDs). Some people like to know this sort of information and I'd rather be aware of it rather than having it get swept under the rug. We are paying good money for these releases, after all.

Furthermore, people on here would criticize releases much less often if studios just did things right in the first place. QC is a shitshow in most cases and if these discs were properly mastered from the start it wouldn't be the consumers noticing the various problems.

~Matt

You know, I don't disagree with anything you're saying here. Why is it that there seems to be no room for nuance anymore?

Me saying I think some reactions are hysterical and/or unfounded isn't the same as me saying nobody should criticise anything. Time after time I've stated this but it never seems to make any difference. It's almost as if nobody's interested in having a conversation but is just on a mission to get everyone else to agree with them absolutely.

I even went to samlop10's post in the KLI thread and wrote a post supporting his and he liked that post and then came back here to like a post which was accusing me of not wanting to hear any criticism! Something is deeply wrong with our discourse, folks.

The one caveat I'd make to your post is that caps are NOT reliable. There are any number of issues that can go wrong in translation, ESPECIALLY when they're just taken with phones from screens. The fact that they're often indicative of something does not mean that they ALWAYS are. And given that a frame is 1/24th of a second, it's just patently untrue that seeing it in a cap means you'll see it in motion. I mean, come on - we should all know this by now.

I do agree that many discs have problems but I think there are categories of problem:

1. Problems that EVERYONE can see and agree is a problem - missing audio track, wrong AR, common glitch etc

1a. Problems that everyone can see but differ on whether it's a problem - regrading, revisionism etc

2. Problems that CERTAIN people will notice, depending on their area of interest or expertise, but may not be deal-breakers for everyone else

3. Problems that only a few will notice unless their attention is brought to it

4. Problems that exist only for specific viewers based on set-up, equipment or a flawed product

We need to accept that we can disagree on and debate these matters without reducing it to a binary.

[Kyle15]

It'd be great if that's all that was happening (disagreement of criticism) but when you've got name-calling and a dash of holier-than-thou handwaving in the mix, you gotta wonder who's problem it is why nuance and a conversation do not exist here. It's almost like some take criticism not directed at them so personally they have to dig for a dose of snark so they can cry foul at those meaaaan videophiles! Rinse and repeat. It's grade school style slapfight instigation nonsense.

Not "everyone" is going to notice nor care about macroblocking or whatever, even obvious audio gaffes. The goalpost can be easily moved to state that the majority will never care anyway, and it's typically those sort of people laying out what will define what. They want to enjoy their movie and not have their enjoyment ruined; well that's on them, it's no one else's fault. They're free to ignore technical talk and do whatever. No one cares. I don't.

A technical folly is a technical folly no matter how many people you can get to jump forward and say they don't see it or exclaim "only certain people will notice."

The message here is these companies should do better. It's insulting to the medium and audiences at large, and that's the entire audience. If one doesn't care, they can say what they want. Planting scream match bait from an ivory tower is no debate. But as they say "rules for thee but not for me" so...

[lgans316]

Just sampled the 4K disc. @samlop10 nailed it with his findings. I think these sort of issues stand out in bigger screens. This is what I felt when I was sampling certain movies on 75ZH8 and comparing the same against 65ZD9. Smaller the screen size, lesser we will notice artifacts (at least in my case).

[DraculaHasRisen]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Just sampled the 4K disc. @samlop10 nailed it with his findings. I think these sort of issues stand out in bigger screens. This is what I felt when I was sampling certain movies on 75ZH8 and comparing the same against 65ZD9. Smaller the screen size, lesser we will notice artifacts (at least in my case).

How big are we talking here?

[Kyle15]

Invasion of The Body Snatchers

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

…

I even went to samlop10's post in the KLI thread and wrote a post supporting his and he liked that post and then came back here to like a post which was accusing me of not wanting to hear any criticism! Something is deeply wrong with our discourse, folks.

…

We need to accept that we can disagree on and debate these matters without reducing it to a binary.

Well, I appreciate the support over on the Kino thread, but at the same time I keep disagreeing with you in that this disc is still good enough to buy, especially given the cheaper prices (and better compression) of the standard blu-ray releases of this film. Any posts I thanked were either in support of that, or, they weren’t even directed specifically/personally at you and later you responded as if they were. That’s the nuance right there for you without reducing it to a binary.

[samlop10]

Kino did just state over in the Hard Target 4K thread they’re creating a replacement program for it due to the botched audio. And they want you to ‘Please don't return your discs or cancel your orders’. It seems the lack of QC is finally catching up to them.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...339862&page=32

So boycotting their botched releases does seem like it might work after all.

[strumdogg]

Originally Posted by samlop10

Kino did just state over in the Hard Target 4K thread they’re creating a replacement program for it due to the botched audio. And they want you to ‘Please don't return your discs or cancel your orders’. It seems the lack of QC is finally catching up to them.

So boycotting their botched releases does seem like it might work after all.

Was there a "boycott," or did Kino voluntarily offer the replacement?

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by strumdogg

Was there a "boycott," or did Kino voluntarily offer the replacement?

Lolol. No business is ever going to volunteer to help the consumer out of the goodness of their hearts. They’ll only do it if it’s going to help their profits somehow (or in this case, not lose those profits). A bunch of people were saying they were canceling their preorders (or were considering returning it), and shortly after Kino issued that post.

And even the quote from their post ‘Please don't return your discs or cancel your orders’ should tell you something about that.

And I mean a boycott in general, not just that specific release. If it will affect their profits, they’ll act.

[fettuciné]

I'm too hungover to go through pages of this thread can someone tell me what the actual issues is with this release? people are saying bad compression and some people are like it's okay and is kino issuing a replacement? that was mentioned somewhere here

[strumdogg]

Originally Posted by samlop10

Lolol. No business is ever going to volunteer to help the consumer out of the goodness of their hearts....

OK, so this statement makes me Laugh Out Loud! No need to read further...

This genius has never heard of disc replacement programs.

Again...

Originally Posted by samlop10

Lolol. No business is ever going to volunteer to help the consumer out of the goodness of their hearts....

Arrow
BBC
Criterion

...I'm only through C, dummy.
Universal

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by strumdogg

OK, so this statement makes me Laugh Out Loud! No need to read further...

This genius has never heard of disc replacement programs.

Again...



Arrow
BBC
Criterion

...I'm only through C, dummy.
Universal

How convenient that you ‘don’t need to read further’ .

And that’s incredible naive. Or just trying to be contrarian . Either way, it still does not make any sense.

You really think those companies did it out of the goodness of their hearts? They’re simply more responsive to maintain a better reputation (better reputations -> more profits; it’s like business 101). Arrow has released some standard blu-rays with issues and they never provided any replacement programs for those. Criterion has released some standard blu-rays with bad compression and they never provided any replacement programs either. I’m not sure I’ve ever bought anything from the BBC so have no idea on them. But them actually creating replacement programs because they care more about the consumer more than their profits? Incredible naive. If they actually cared more about the consumer, more than their profits, they would have fixed those releases as well, which they never did.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by DraculaHasRisen

How big are we talking here?

Yesterday I watched Matrix 4K DV iTunes stream to quickly check how high quality 4K streams look on the 75ZH8. I noticed noise and blocks surrounding the torch light in the first scene. It stood out really bad. None from the disc. It was way less pronounced on the 65ZD9 from the same viewing distance. Had to literally go near the screen to notice it.

Body Snatchers - you can see that chroma crawling pattern (however we want to describe it) on fabric and backgrounds from about 5 ft.

[Dr. Seymour Love]

Originally Posted by fettuciné

I'm too hungover to go through pages of this thread can someone tell me what the actual issues is with this release? people are saying bad compression and some people are like it's okay and is kino issuing a replacement? that was mentioned somewhere here

Thread summation: Someone smeared feces onto the ocn before they did the transfer and it looks awful. Also, the original mono was replaced with the sound of someone farting for the entirety of the film. Very juvenile. Bill Hunt and Robert Harris say it's awesome so buy it.

[strumdogg]

Originally Posted by samlop10

How convenient that you ‘don’t need to read further’ .

It was a joke.

Originally Posted by samlop10

And that’s incredible naive. Or just trying to be contrarian . Either way, it still does not make any sense.

Nope! You're just wrong.

Originally Posted by samlop10

You really think those companies did it out of the goodness of their hearts? They’re simply more responsive to maintain a better reputation (better reputations -> more profits; it’s like business 101). Arrow has released some standard blu-rays with issues and they never provided any replacement programs for those. Criterion has released some standard blu-rays with bad compression and they never provided any replacement programs either. I’m not sure I’ve ever bought anything from the BBC so have no idea on them. But them actually creating replacement programs because they care more about the consumer more than their profits? Incredible naive. If they actually cared more about the consumer, more than their profits, they would have fixed those releases as well, which they never did.

That's your phrasing, and it's embarrassing that you're hiding behind that fairy tale version of the world to protect your weak argument.

The facts are that profits are behind every disc we purchase, whether a catalog title from Amazon, or the obscure slasher from VS.

If you own a business that puts out media, and there happens to be a "bad batch," then it's ABSOLUTELY good business to proactively and freely offer replacements to your customers that received a defective product. OTHERWISE...They may not come back to shop your label and/or online marketplace ever again. Providing free replacements is not a new concept, and garners loyalty with your customers.

You don't seem to grasp that concept, as you keep referring to a company's "heart." Dumb.


I feel like you're aspiring to go into a Business major, but you're just taking Algebra I.

[welcometothepartypal]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Invasion of The Body Snatchers

Thank you. I forgot where I was again.

[strumdogg]

Apologies to the thread, sincerely.

I'm done; they can have the last word.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by strumdogg

It was a joke.




Nope! You're just wrong.




That's your phrasing, and it's embarrassing that you're hiding behind that fairy tale version of the world to protect your weak argument.

The facts are that profits are behind every disc we purchase, whether a catalog title from Amazon, or the obscure slasher from VS.

If you own a business that puts out media, and there happens to be a "bad batch," then it's ABSOLUTELY good business to proactively and freely offer replacements to your customers that received a defective product. OTHERWISE...They may not come back to shop your label and/or online marketplace ever again. Providing free replacements is not a new concept, and garners loyalty with your customers.

You don't seem to grasp that concept, as you keep referring to a company's "heart." Dumb.


I feel like you're aspiring to go into a Business major, but you're just taking Algebra I.

Good grief. Your posts don’t make any sense whatsoever. That post ^ is basically what I was saying in my previous posts which you seemed to disagree with. But now you’re saying the same thing I’m saying? There’s like zero logic between your posts. I literally can’t tell what you’re trying to say. You directly contradicted your previous post which replied to one of mine where I was basically saying just that about Kino: that everything companies do is for a profit. But then you replied with this:

Originally Posted by strumdogg

OK, so this statement makes me Laugh Out Loud! No need to read further...

This genius has never heard of disc replacement programs.

Again...



Arrow
BBC
Criterion

...I'm only through C, dummy.
Universal

Anyway… it’s like arguing with a parrot. Just pure nonsense. Can’t make any heads or tails of what you’re saying. I’ll stop wasting my time with this ‘discussion’ if you can even call it that.