Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're quick to put Digital down, Providers have come a long way and the Bitrates have been going up to produce Disc Like Quality. Have you tried Sony Ultra with a properly set up Sony UHD TV? The Picture and Sound Quality is Amazing.....4K UHD+HDR!

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Have you tried 4K disc with HDR?

Originally Posted by Fiffy

No, not necessarily. I could just as well say "banding is still visible on Blu-rays". It's a meaningless statement in this generality.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It isn’t, because banding is far more pronounced on digital. I know this, I have fibre and I have sampled a great range of Digital efforts. Captain Philips is one such movie. Bright scenes look good, night scenes with static shots of the ship suffer from banding on several occasions. That was the Itunes version by the way. I could give you further examples but I’m wasting my time. You are arguing for the sake of arguing. I have heard it all now, Digital has the same detail as disc? Get out of here!

Fiffy is right, Digital Streaming and Disc Quality are the same if you have the latest Codec and Bitrate. No I don't have a 4K Disc Player, but I do have a Panasonic Blu-ray Player, and I have compared Blu-ray Discs with the various Providers I have. Amazon, MA, Sony Ultra, and Vudu, and Sony Ultra is by far the best. All their Movies are in 4K+HDR, but if you don't have the 4K they Port over in HD+HDR. The Movie starts off in SD, and if you don't have the 4K version it goes up to HD+HDR dependent on your Bandwidth. So the Bitrate can be 25+Mbps giving you the best Resolution and Sound. There is no question the Quality is comparable to any Blu-ray Disc. Anyone with the latest Sony UHD TV can prove this.

Steedeel, you say you have Fiber and I did check to see if London does have FTTP/FTTH and they do in certain areas. You have never said what kind of Bandwidth or Speeds you have, and if your Fiber is all the way to your location. FTTH should be Symmetrical Speeds, and at least 50+Mbps, and if you don't have this you will get what you claim a lot of Artifacts, especially if you are Wireless too.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Fiffy is right, Digital Streaming and Disc Quality are the same if you have the latest Codec and Bitrate. No I don't have a 4K Disc Player, but I do have a Panasonic Blu-ray Player, and I have compared Blu-ray Discs with the various Providers I have. Amazon, MA, Sony Ultra, and Vudu, and Sony Ultra is by far the best. All their Movies are in 4K+HDR, but if you don't have the 4K they Port over in HD+HDR. The Movie starts off in SD, and if you don't have the 4K version it goes up to HD+HDR dependent on your Bandwidth. So the Bitrate can be 25+Mbps giving you the best Resolution and Sound. There is no question the Quality is comparable to any Blu-ray Disc. Anyone with the latest Sony UHD TV can prove this.

Steedeel, you say you have Fiber and I did check to see if London does have FTTP/FTTH and they do in certain areas. You have never said what kind of Bandwidth or Speeds you have, and if your Fiber is all the way to your location. FTTH should be Symmetrical Speeds, and at least 50+Mbps, and if you don't have this you will get what you claim a lot of Artifacts, especially if you are Wireless too.

No, he isn’t right at all. You know it, he knows it.

I have FTTC and 200 Mbps. More than enough to handle any high quality streaming. Very very few people have FTTP here. It’s unrealistic to expect it as well. What you are saying is the only way to avoid artefacts is to have super fast ‘to the premises’ fibre? Don’t be ridiculous. That’s not a real world scenario.

[Steedeel]

Oh and another good reason for sticking with discs? When Trump bans gun violence (comedy gold imo) we won’t have altered content or banned movies. What’s to stop the industry preventing you from playing your violent films? Of course they would have to refund you but you still couldn’t access said movies.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It isn’t, because banding is far more pronounced on digital. I know this, I have fibre and I have sampled a great range of Digital efforts. Captain Philips is one such movie. Bright scenes look good, night scenes with static shots of the ship suffer from banding on several occasions. That was the Itunes version by the way. I could give you further examples but I’m wasting my time. You are arguing for the sake of arguing. I have heard it all now, Digital has the same detail as disc? Get out of here!

This has been my experience too. You would be better off ripping and compressing your own stuff with x264 and it would look better. VUDU seems a little bit better in this regard, but there is still some artifacts in their encodes too. AVSForums has a number of comparisons - AVSForums Comparisons - where they go test some of the online providers and compare them to the Blu-ray and there's no contest, disc wins 100% of the time. The digital options are probably okay if you're on a phone or tablet. On a good TV I would want a disc every time. I'm not sure how iTunes is encoding its movies but I have seen some x264 encodes at lower bitrate that look better.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

This has been my experience too. You would be better off ripping and compressing your own stuff with x264 and it would look better. VUDU seems a little bit better in this regard, but there is still some artifacts in their encodes too. AVSForums has a number of comparisons - AVSForums Comparisons - where they go test some of the online providers and compare them to the Blu-ray and there's no contest, disc wins 100% of the time. The streaming options are probably okay if you're on a phone or tablet. On a good TV I would want a disc every time. I'm not sure how iTunes is encoding its movies but I have seen some x264 encodes at lower bitrate that look better.

Very true. I have read that Vudu has its own problems as well. I see it as a sin to watch a film like The Revenant on a digital format. It makes me sad that people don’t appreciate all the crisp detail and purity. Not to mention the audio.

[Kage]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Oh and another good reason for sticking with discs? When Trump bans gun violence (comedy gold imo) we won’t have altered content or banned movies. What’s to stop the industry preventing you from playing your violent films? Of course they would have to refund you but you still couldn’t access said movies.

It may only be for video streaming subscription services since its growing in popularity not for bought digital 4k/hd video. I think that movie directors don't mind any alternations to their films on streaming video subscription services because they know that the films are licensed for a couple of weeks for viewing, but for bought digital media they would be furious because they want the films to be shown as intended.

[Dustin44]

Originally Posted by Vilya

While there, I counted every title that was offered in the form of a digital download card, both at the front checkouts and in the video section of the electronics department and my Super Walmart carried exactly 5 digital download titles in one of the biggliest sections I have yet seen.

I rewarded myself for doing this in depth and painstaking research by buying two movies, one a 4K UHD disc and the other a blu-ray disc. There were 3 dozen 4K disc titles there to choose from, a slightly bigglier section than the digital download one. No need to mention the two full aisles of blu-rays or the one aisle of compact discs.

I have seen those digital download cards for a while now for brand new and upcoming movies. But like you said, it wasn't very many. They only had those digital download cards for like 5 to 8 movies.

Until today.

I was at my Super Walmart this morning and checked out the movie section.

They had a three sided display, one side was $9.96 DVD's, one side was $9.96 Blu's, and one side was nothing but digital download cards. I counted over 40 digital download titles. This is the first time I have come across anything like that.

And I saw almost no 4K blu-ray titles, which surprised me. Since I know just about a month ago they had probably 25 or more 4K titles available to buy.

I kind of want to go to other Walmart's near me to see what their selection looks like now. I am curious if maybe other Walmart's near me carry more/less 4K titles or more/less digital download titles.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by Dustin44

I have seen those digital download cards for a while now for brand new and upcoming movies. But like you said, it wasn't very many. They only had those digital download cards for like 5 to 8 movies.

Until today.

I was at my Super Walmart this morning and checked out the movie section.

They had a three sided display, one side was $9.96 DVD's, one side was $9.96 Blu's, and one side was nothing but digital download cards. I counted over 40 digital download titles. This is the first time I have come across anything like that.

And I saw almost no 4K blu-ray titles, which surprised me. Since I know just about a month ago they had probably 25 or more 4K titles available to buy.

I kind of want to go to other Walmart's near me to see what their selection looks like now. I am curious if maybe other Walmart's near me carry more/less 4K titles or more/less digital download titles.

It doesn't surprise me. I see few people buying movies at the store anymore. It's just like with how Best Buy announced they would stop carrying CDs. I don't think it's because physical media sales are declining so much as it is people can find better deals and availability online from places like Amazon.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Dustin44

I have seen those digital download cards for a while now for brand new and upcoming movies. But like you said, it wasn't very many. They only had those digital download cards for like 5 to 8 movies.

Until today.

I was at my Super Walmart this morning and checked out the movie section.

They had a three sided display, one side was $9.96 DVD's, one side was $9.96 Blu's, and one side was nothing but digital download cards. I counted over 40 digital download titles. This is the first time I have come across anything like that.

And I saw almost no 4K blu-ray titles, which surprised me. Since I know just about a month ago they had probably 25 or more 4K titles available to buy.

I kind of want to go to other Walmart's near me to see what their selection looks like now. I am curious if maybe other Walmart's near me carry more/less 4K titles or more/less digital download titles.

What stores carry, even within the same chain, seems to vary wildly from one region to another. I live in a rural area; that city of 26,000 where I shop is the largest city in a 70 mile radius. These regional variances are one of several reasons why I do not consider anecdotal observations in our respective towns to mean very much. What sells in Peoria is very likely different than what sells in New York City. The overall sales data gives us an accurate picture of how things stand across the entire market.

The Home Video Sales Thread on this website shows us weekly sales data, quarterly sales data, and yearly sales data. Forum member bruceames has been following this data for YEARS now; he is an expert on this subject. His thread is very informative.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...6#post14772176

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

What stores carry, even within the same chain, seems to vary wildly from one region to another. I live in a rural area; that city of 26,000 where I shop is the largest city in a 70 mile radius. These regional variances are one of several reasons why I do not consider anecdotal observations in our respective towns to mean very much. What sells in Peoria is very likely different than what sells in New York City. The overall sales data gives us an accurate picture of how things stand across the entire market.

The Home Video Sales Thread on this website shows us weekly sales data, quarterly sales data, and yearly sales data. Forum member bruceames has been following this data for YEARS now; he is an expert on this subject. His thread is very informative.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...6#post14772176

Although that is specifically for discs so maybe someone should start a separate thread in here. Keep things separate like they should be.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Although that is specifically for discs so maybe someone should start a separate thread in here. Keep things separate like they should be.

Bruce said he will be showing data for physical media sales each week as he always has and also digital electronic sales quarterly as the latter data is not published weekly. The thread is about home video sales, not just physical media.

Bruce included data about rental, all forms, and streaming in his quarterly and annual reports.

[Dustin44]

Originally Posted by Vilya

What stores carry, even within the same chain, seems to vary wildly from one region to another. I live in a rural area; that city of 26,000 where I shop is the largest city in a 70 mile radius. These regional variances are one of several reasons why I do not consider anecdotal observations in our respective towns to mean very much. What sells in Peoria is very likely different than what sells in New York City. The overall sales data gives us an accurate picture of how things stand across the entire market.

The Home Video Sales Thread on this website shows us weekly sales data, quarterly sales data, and yearly sales data. Forum member bruceames has been following this data for YEARS now; he is an expert on this subject. His thread is very informative.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...6#post14772176

Very true. I know one Walmart near me can carry an item, and then another a few miles away doesn't carry that item at all. So I am sure it can be very different from region to region.

And thanks for the link. I am going to start following bruceames thread.

[SarahS]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Very true. I have read that Vudu has its own problems as well. I see it as a sin to watch a film like The Revenant on a digital format. It makes me sad that people don’t appreciate all the crisp detail and purity. Not to mention the audio.

I want to bang on the drums all day.....

[moviegeek1992]

I don't think Steedeel comments on other actual blu-ray threads as much as he does on this one. It's his personal mission to discredit any and all digital services forgetting himself that a movie is a movie. Doesn't matter if one watches a movie on a phone or in the cinema if the movie is good it's good, blu-ray quality isn't somehow going to improve the film itself. Similarly a turd of a movie could have the greatest transfer in the world, wouldn't make it any better. I actually laughed when people in the 4K threads were buying Smurfs 2 on 4K, falling into the studios trap of getting one to pay exorbitant prices for a title that can be found anywhere else in a bargain bin on blu-ray.

I like a lot of films that never got a release beyond a VHS, I'm not going to stop watching them because the quality is bad.
This whole digital vs physical debate is pointless because it's subjective at the end of the day what people prefer. There are hard facts for some points but just because a film on blu-ray has better image quality doesn't mean everyone will notice the difference. Heck look at how many average folk stuck with DVDs and the quality of digital HD is better than DVD for sure.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

I don't think Steedeel comments on other actual blu-ray threads as much as he does on this one. It's his personal mission to discredit any and all digital services forgetting himself that a movie is a movie. Doesn't matter if one watches a movie on a phone or in the cinema if the movie is good it's good, blu-ray quality isn't somehow going to improve the film itself. Similarly a turd of a movie could have the greatest transfer in the world, wouldn't make it any better. I actually laughed when people in the 4K threads were buying Smurfs 2 on 4K, falling into the studios trap of getting one to pay exorbitant prices for a title that can be found anywhere else in a bargain bin on blu-ray.

I like a lot of films that never got a release beyond a VHS, I'm not going to stop watching them because the quality is bad.
This whole digital vs physical debate is pointless because it's subjective at the end of the day what people prefer. There are hard facts for some points but just because a film on blu-ray has better image quality doesn't mean everyone will notice the difference. Heck look at how many average folk stuck with DVDs and the quality of digital HD is better than DVD for sure.

I think you are taking this too personally. He is right that the digital formats fall short where quality is concerned. I don't seem to ever remember him saying that digital movies cannot be enjoyed. This thread is called "Physical Copies or Digital," not "Can you still enjoy digital given the flaws." As we speak, I am streaming "Carlito's Way" on HULU Live TV. The quality sure is not the same as Blu-ray, that doesn't mean there are no noticeable differences or that it is not enjoyable.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

I don't think Steedeel comments on other actual blu-ray threads as much as he does on this one. It's his personal mission to discredit any and all digital services forgetting himself that a movie is a movie. Doesn't matter if one watches a movie on a phone or in the cinema if the movie is good it's good, blu-ray quality isn't somehow going to improve the film itself. Similarly a turd of a movie could have the greatest transfer in the world, wouldn't make it any better. I actually laughed when people in the 4K threads were buying Smurfs 2 on 4K, falling into the studios trap of getting one to pay exorbitant prices for a title that can be found anywhere else in a bargain bin on blu-ray.

I like a lot of films that never got a release beyond a VHS, I'm not going to stop watching them because the quality is bad.
This whole digital vs physical debate is pointless because it's subjective at the end of the day what people prefer. There are hard facts for some points but just because a film on blu-ray has better image quality doesn't mean everyone will notice the difference. Heck look at how many average folk stuck with DVDs and the quality of digital HD is better than DVD for sure.

Your first sentence? Completely wrong.

By the way discrediting 4K disc fans makes you a bit of a hypocrite, no?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I think you are taking this too personally. He is right that the digital formats fall short where quality is concerned. I don't seem to ever remember him saying that digital movies cannot be enjoyed. This thread is called "Physical Copies or Digital," not "Can you still enjoy digital given the flaws." As we speak, I am streaming "Carlito's Way" on HULU Live TV. The quality sure is not the same as Blu-ray, that doesn't mean there are no noticeable differences or that it is not enjoyable.

I actually use Netflix and I have commented several times that the quality they squeeze out of low bitrates is very impressive. I just happen to love the best for my films. A/V quality is vital to me

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I actually use Netflix and I have commented several times that the quality they squeeze out of low bitrates is very impressive. I just happen to love the best for my films. A/V quality is vital to me

You just said in the last page you would consider it a sin to watch something like The Revenant on a digital service.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

You just said in the last page you would consider it a sin to watch something like The Revenant on a digital service.

So hes a sinner Most people are.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I think you are taking this too personally. He is right that the digital formats fall short where quality is concerned.

IMO the time for blanket statements like this is over. I find that iTunes 4K streams usually look better than the Blu-ray release (and before you say "not fair", consider that many iTunes 4K titles aren't available on UHD disc). Even the HD streams mostly look very good and, depending on the movie and mastering, can be difficult to distinguish from the disc.

I wish it was possible to have a differentiated discussion of the various formats, without all those stupid "disc good, digital evil" type of postings ..