The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread

[NLScavenger]

Despite what the sleeve tells, the Discotek/Anime Limited UK release of Kaiba is actually not 1080i.

Disc Title: Kaiba
Disc Label: KAIBA_UK
Disc Size: 47,112,897,938 bytes
Protection: AACS
Playlist: All episodes minus production & disc credits
Size: 44,834,432,640 bytes
Length: 4:49:11.751
Total Bitrate: 20.67 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 17928 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: Japanese / LPCM Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz /  1536 kbps / 16-bit
Subtitle: English / 26.893 kbps

[mikezilla2]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

By the late 90s, most anime productions still on celluloid (and several transitioning to digipaint) switched to 35mm because many of the big film manufactures in Japan discontinued 16mm film stocks used for productions. Two, the price of production 35mm stocks went down and were the only ones being made until their discontinuation in the mid-2000s.

Do we have a List of All 35mm Shows ? or did i misunderstand what you wrote ?

[zakurowrath]

Originally Posted by mikezilla2

Do we have a List of All 35mm Shows ? or did i misunderstand what you wrote ?

Would love to see that list too, Outlaw Star is one I know is definitely 35mm, the opening and endings of Neon Genesis Evangelion, Gunbuster the last 2 episodes, I believe Cowboy Bebop is too.

[dubudavid]

There is no comprehensive list, but timeframes and how it looks is often enough to discern the format it was produced in.

From the 60s and very early 70s, TV anime was shot on 35mm almost exclusively, but that changed and everyone switched to 16mm in the 70s due to the lower cost. Great Mazinger from 1974 was the first Toei anime that used 16mm for television production and they used it ever since for the most part.

From the 70s to the mid 90s 16mm for TV anime was the norm. Many OVAs throughout this period used 35mm though, and theatrically released films were exclusively shot on 35mm, if you don't count the many blown-up compilation films comprised mostly of TV footage that is.

In the mid 90s many studios went back to shooting TV anime on 35mm though some stuck to 16mm, but this era is mostly plagued by the Japanese Telecine Syndrome due to the change from traditional film editing to video editing, so many of those productions are unable to be properly restored since their original elements either exist only in chunks and may have been easily misplaced, if they even still exist at all. Restoring these is a gargantuan task compared to earlier productions that were edited entirely on film, from which you can simply scan the finished negative or print and be done with it. Not so simple for those mid-90s video-edited shows. Not only must you track down all the chunks of the original elements, but you must also re-edit the entire production and recreate any video effects and titles there were, from scratch.

As for opening/ending animations, those were practically always on 35mm from the very beginning to the very end, and credits were composited in each episode at the conversion stage on 16mm for those primarily shot on that format.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by mikezilla2

Do we have a List of All 35mm Shows ? or did i misunderstand what you wrote ?

Aside from OVA/mini series and theatrical features, 90s series that had 35mm cels finished on film to the best of my knowledge:

Some TMS series from 1992 onwards (which includes early eps of Detective Conan)

Gundam series after 1991 like Mobile Fighter G Gundam and later Sunrise productions like Gai Gao Gar and Cardcaptor Sakura (first couple eps were a mix of 16mm blow up)

Most Tezuka Productions series (which include The Three-Eyed One, Dear Brother, ect)

Some early 90s Ashi Productions series and most later ones (which include Magical Princess Minky Momo: Hold on to Your Dreams, Blue Seed, Super Life-Form Transformers: Beast Wars Neo, and JP version of The Legend of Zorro (1996–1997)

AIC productions like Tenchi Universe and Tenchi in Tokyo

Series that were predominately 16mm had select episodes (usually done for insertion into theatrical compilations or features) in or switched to 35mm later towards the end of their run. This includes ones like DBZ & GT, Sailor Moon, and Ranma 1/2.

Series that were partially or fully edited on SD/digibeta tape:

Gundam series starting from Turn A Gundam

Cybuster

Inuyasha

Cowboy bebop

Outlaw Star

Hajime No Ippo: The Fighting

Most of Slayers (including Next)

Trigun

Street Fighter II V

Medarot/Metabots

1999-2000 eps of Pokemon

There are several more I'm forgetting, but that's the basic jist of it. Many series that were primarily digipaint in their run had the first 3 or 4 eps with 16 or 35mm cels footage finished on tape. That includes Mon Colle Nights and I believe the first episode of the 1997 Dr Slump reboot.

[MeowsRIA]

NLScavenger

Does Black Lagoon - Series, from alltheanime is worth to buy ? the bluray version is upscale ?

Many thanks.

[Kriztoffer Swank]

OK, so it's not anime, and it's a Twitter pic of an unfinished product, but whaddya all think of the Toxic Crusaders upscale?

https://twitter.com/JustySilverman/s...06257144774657

The lineart looks really faint in parts and inconsistent, but I'm no expert on upscaling. It doesn't look as nice as AstroRes upscales.

Actually, the more I look at it, the worse it becomes. Check out the picture frame by Melvin's thumb (artifacting), or the mop handle above his hand.

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by MeowsRIA

NLScavenger

Does Black Lagoon - Series, from alltheanime is worth to buy ? the bluray version is upscale ?

Many thanks.

The AllTheAnime release is same as the Funimation release, so it has wrong gamma which makes the banding issues in the master even more noticeable.

The Kazé release doesn't have this issue so it does seem to looks less bad overall, but it does have worse compression. Unfortunately there isn't a good release of this series.

[MeowsRIA]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

The AllTheAnime release is same as the Funimation release, so it has wrong gamma which makes the banding issues in the master even more noticeable.

The Kazé release doesn't have this issue so it does seem to looks less bad overall, but it does have worse compression. Unfortunately there isn't a good release of this series.

About Black Lagoon: Roberta's Blood Trail Bluray the Kaze version says Single disc (1 BD-25) and Anime Ltd version says Single disc (1 BD-50)

Which one do you recommend ?

Kaze - https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Black...Blu-ray/79732/

Anime Ltd - https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Black...lu-ray/308265/

Many thanks NLScavenger

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by MeowsRIA

About Black Lagoon: Roberta's Blood Trail Bluray the Kaze version says Single disc (1 BD-25) and Anime Ltd version says Single disc (1 BD-50)

Which one do you recommend ?

Kaze - https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Black...Blu-ray/79732/

Anime Ltd - https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Black...lu-ray/308265/

Many thanks NLScavenger

I haven't checked out Roberta's Blood Trail, so I can't answer that. I heard both releases have a lot of artifacting.

[MeowsRIA]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

I haven't checked out Roberta's Blood Trail, so I can't answer that. I heard both releases have a lot of artifacting.

NLScavenger you have helped alot, thanks so much man, if i buy Roberta's Blood Trail on Bluray , what information do you need to evaluate if its good or not ? printscreens ?

Thanks man

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by MeowsRIA

NLScavenger you have helped alot, thanks so much man, if i buy Roberta's Blood Trail on Bluray , what information do you need to evaluate if its good or not ? printscreens ?

Thanks man

Variety of screenshots made with proper settings (preferably avisynth/vapoursynth screenshots with FFInfo frametype information).

[xXx$uicide_Ma$terxXx]

Originally Posted by Kriztoffer Swank

OK, so it's not anime, and it's a Twitter pic of an unfinished product, but whaddya all think of the Toxic Crusaders upscale?

https://twitter.com/JustySilverman/s...06257144774657

The lineart looks really faint in parts and inconsistent, but I'm no expert on upscaling. It doesn't look as nice as AstroRes upscales.

Actually, the more I look at it, the worse it becomes. Check out the picture frame by Melvin's thumb (artifacting), or the mop handle above his hand.

Looks like complete shit. Never understood all these people who grew up with tape that are obsessed with these digitally destroyed AI upscales. They could've had a decent DVD or SDBD with a newer master than the previous release DVD.

Basically all the lines are smeary or fading into the abyss, there's those weird artifact lines by Melvin's thumb and by the girl's hips. The guy's padlock chain also has some weird artifacting to the right of it.

I'm sure it'll be even worse in motion too. Another home run by Troma

[kk1]

Originally Posted by xXx$uicide_Ma$terxXx

Looks like complete shit. Never understood all these people who grew up with tape that are obsessed with these digitally destroyed AI upscales. They could've had a decent DVD or SDBD with a newer master than the previous release DVD.

Basically all the lines are smeary or fading into the abyss, there's those weird artifact lines by Melvin's thumb and by the girl's hips. The guy's padlock chain also has some weird artifacting to the right of it.

I'm sure it'll be even worse in motion too. Another home run by Troma

Kind of tangential but watching an art youtube video I found out the earlist copy (made during Da Vinci's life probably by one if his own students) of the Mona Lisa was discovered in Spain and cleaned avout a decade ago and shows what the original probably looked like before the laquer coatings faded and covered up the details. Everyone is so used to the faded smudgy original I'm sure most people would agree the copy is so much brighter and more detailed (you can now see her eyebrows and details of the embroidery on her clothes), but would those things prevent them from seeing it's not a perfect copy (they weren't quite able to capture the face exactly)?
Maybe the same things happens with film restoration where the brighter colors and clearer picture blinds them to the negatives? https://www.jerrysartarama.com/blog/...ound-in-spain/

[peppapigstan]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Aside from OVA/mini series and theatrical features, 90s series that had 35mm cels finished on film to the best of my knowledge:
Gundam series after 1991 like Mobile Fighter G Gundam and later Sunrise productions like Gai Gao Gar and Cardcaptor Sakura (first couple eps were a mix of 16mm blow up)

Most Tezuka Productions series (which include The Three-Eyed One, Dear Brother, ect)

AIC productions like Tenchi Universe and Tenchi in Tokyo

Series that were partially or fully edited on SD/digibeta tape:

Inuyasha

1999-2000 eps of Pokemon
Many series that were primarily digipaint in their run had the first 3 or 4 eps with 16 or 35mm cels footage finished on tape. That includes Mon Colle Nights and I believe the first episode of the 1997 Dr Slump reboot.

truncated this quote to highlight the information that's wrong (or i believe to be inaccurate but not sure)
- G Gundam is very much 16mm for every episode and so was Wing & After War X, Victory Gundam does have the first 11 episodes on 35mm though for some reason
- Gai Gao Gar is 16mm as well, the OVA is a mix of 35mm and digipaint
- Cardcaptor Sakura is entirely 35mm
- Dear Brother is 16mm, the HD transfer is really good though (correction: it is 35mm, the OP just looks really soft tho)
- I'm pretty sure both Tenchi TV series were 16mm, maybe not Tokyo since that was later but pretty sure Universe is 16mm
- I think Inuyasha might've been a filmout, the HD scans of early episodes show that the digipaint portions were on film
- I think Pokemon was also tape to begin with as well because aren't there like CG portions for intro and eyecatches?

[Gowho]

Originally Posted by dubudavid

Great Mazinger from 1974 was the first Toei anime that used 16mm for television production and they used it ever since for the most part.

And this was halfway through since it started as 35mm for it's first half.

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Gundam series after 1991 like Mobile Fighter G Gundam and later Sunrise productions like Gai Gao Gar and Cardcaptor Sakura (first couple eps were a mix of 16mm blow up)

Cardcaptor Sakura's a Madhouse show.

Series that were predominately 16mm had select episodes (usually done for insertion into theatrical compilations or features) in or switched to 35mm later towards the end of their run. This includes ones like DBZ & GT, Sailor Moon, and Ranma 1/2.

Which episodes for GT? For DBZ, 73-80 were apparently 35mm.

AIC productions like Tenchi Universe and Tenchi in Tokyo

Originally Posted by peppapigstan

- I'm pretty sure both Tenchi TV series were 16mm, maybe not Tokyo since that was later but pretty sure Universe is 16mm

Yeah, if those two were 35mm, they wouldn't have SD Blu-ray discs like they do in Japan.

[Memade]

Looking to pick up Anime of the Year, Vinland Saga season 2 JP volumes. Any reviews on the image quality?

[Mangaranga]

Originally Posted by Memade

Looking to pick up Anime of the Year, Vinland Saga season 2 JP volumes. Any reviews on the image quality?

The first BD Box doesn't come out until tomorrow in Japan, so who knows. You're banking on it even getting uploaded to find out without buying it yourself.
Season 1 sold notoriously poorly, and evidently VAP don't have high hopes for Season 2 either since it's two half sets with two BDs each.

[jd213]

Originally Posted by Gowho

Yeah, if those two were 35mm, they wouldn't have SD Blu-ray discs like they do in Japan.

That's not an indication of how it was filmed, just that they were unable or unwilling to properly remaster it.
Universal also released The Transformers on SDBD in Japan, and that was 35mm.

[peppapigstan]

Originally Posted by jd213

That's not an indication of how it was filmed, just that they were unable or unwilling to properly remaster it.
Universal also released The Transformers on SDBD in Japan, and that was 35mm.

valid, it does seem like Universal Japan doesn't like to remaster 16mm AIC shows properly but given Armitage III's tragic BD, i suppose they just are too lazy to remaster most of AIC's shows in general