Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Vilya

All you are saying is that the bitrate of a 4K streamed title is equivalent to the bitrate from a 1080p blu-ray disc. That is in no way a level playing field and it is a goofy comparison. Saying a 4K stream looks as good as a 1080p blu-ray disc is not something to brag about; a 4K stream should look, and sound, just as excellent as a 4K UHD disc and it objectively and quantitatively does not.

It does if you believe it does.

I know it doesn’t look as good as a 4K disc. I’ve compared them back to back. The 4K digital version is nothing to be ashamed of, but the 4K disc needs no defending. It speaks for itself.

Now, that doesn’t mean that digital is not impressive. It continues to improve to the point that a videophile like myself has decided to go with it almost exclusively. I find it very acceptable, even if there are still some limitations.

I used to double or even triple dip on DVDs/Blu-rays that were re-released with new transfers/features. Now those new transfers/features are just given to you if you buy movies on iTunes (or port movies into iTunes from places like VUDU). It’s a lovely development that I can’t stop appreciating.

[recS-12]

I’ve thrown my .02 in on this thread here and there. So, a little more to share... I purchased the 4K itunes of Blade Runner 2049 and it transferred to HDX on VUDU. I was blown away by the AQ from the stream. It absolutely ROCKED my sound system. My Elite was displaying DD PLUS and wow. Just WoW. This particular movie and stream made me tip my hat to how well streaming can perform

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

It does if you believe it does.

I know it doesn’t look as good as a 4K disc. I’ve compared them back to back. The 4K digital version is nothing to be ashamed of, but the 4K disc needs no defending. It speaks for itself.

Now, that doesn’t mean that digital is not impressive. It continues to improve to the point that a videophile like myself has decided to go with it almost exclusively. I find it very acceptable, even if there are still some limitations.

I used to double or even triple dip on DVDs/Blu-rays that were re-released with new transfers/features. Now those new transfers/features are just given to you if you buy movies on iTunes (or port movies into iTunes from places like VUDU). It’s a lovely development that I can’t stop appreciating.

I know 4k digital streaming can look very, very good in well lit scenes especially, but it does not equal the 4K UHD disc presentation and the difference is quite obvious in dark scenes. The audio quality difference is often even more disparate, but I would not call it bad, either. It just seems really bizarre to promote 4K streaming by essentially saying it is equal to a blu-ray disc.

I have been experimenting with Netflix in just ordinary HD and it looks more than decent and I can understand why this level of quality is more than acceptable to many given the incredibly low cost of this service. I, however, want the best quality possible and I am not interested in the "almost as good" descriptions applied to streaming.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I have often contemplated the same thing. It almost is not even worth it with a large collection. You will either need to compress or build a NAS. I am thinking very hard about making Star Wars: TLJ my last physical disc purchase just because when I watch a movie, it is almost always on my computer or tablet, rarely in front of my TV. The only thing keeping me with physical discs is that I have control over the content much more than with digital/cloud purchases.

This backs up my theory that more and more people are switching to mobile devices for films. Someone else was a few pages back. If you don’t respect films enough to watch on the big screen, Digital is for sure the format of choice.

I make this point every few months but it’s met with gifs and patronising posts, yet I constantly see evidence even in this thread. Soon any talk of quality will be irrelevant because you guys will be watching on mobile devices.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The question of both is not the problem, it's putting one above the other. I say Digital is as good as Disc, maybe at the start of this Thread it was different but that argument has pasted. There is still a question about Audio, but with Providers like Sony Ultra and HDR with the right equipment, set up, and Bandwidth the Audio should be Disc Quality too.

Nonsense.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I know 4k digital streaming can look very, very good in well lit scenes especially, but it does not equal the 4K UHD disc presentation and the difference is quite obvious in dark scenes. The audio quality difference is often even more disparate, but I would not call it bad, either. It just seems really bizarre to promote 4K streaming by essentially saying it is equal to a blu-ray disc.

I have been experimenting with Netflix in just ordinary HD and it looks more than decent and I can understand why this level of quality is more than acceptable to many given the incredibly low cost of this service. I, however, want the best quality possible and I am not interested in the "almost as good" descriptions applied to streaming.

How do you know if your Netflix plan is HD?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

How do you know if your Netflix plan is HD?

I have watched 4K Youtube videos on my 4K TV; mostly the pretty time lapsed nature and urban themed ones.

I have been tempted to try Netflix in 4K as I am still in my free trial period, but I am not sure if they offer enough 4K content to make it worthwhile. Plus, I do have rather spotty internet service that can, in theory, handle 4K streaming, but I am currently capped at 250 GB of data per month. A higher cap would cost more, of course, and the next level offered is 400 GB per month for about $10 more per month. My speeds are 80 down and 9 up when all is working well.

I don't how good Youtube's 4K video streams are considered to be compared to other streaming providers, but what I saw looked very good to me while still falling short of a 4K disc.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

How do you know if your Netflix plan is HD?

If you have any plan that allows you to stream to more than one device at a time, that plan is HD capable. Only the cheapest SD plan doesn’t allow you to stream to more than one device at a time.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Holy moly, that’s some high bitrates, Batman!

That’s due to triple layered discs.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by flyry

How do you know if your Netflix plan is HD?

I can't speak for anyone else flyry, but I'm on the Ultra HD plan and can also check the resolution through my KS8000 app.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

This backs up my theory that more and more people are switching to mobile devices for films. Someone else was a few pages back. If you don’t respect films enough to watch on the big screen, Digital is for sure the format of choice.

I make this point every few months but it’s met with gifs and patronising posts, yet I constantly see evidence even in this thread. Soon any talk of quality will be irrelevant because you guys will be watching on mobile devices.

No, you are met with GIF's and patronizing posts because you are so inflexible in your stance. So treat people the way you want to be treated and I'm sure some folks will cut you some slack.

Oh, and just because someone watches something on a phone or tablet doesn't mean they don't also watch something on the big screen too. Stop trying to fit everyone in your box.

[Vilya]

^ I think he was asking how I could evaluate 4K streaming when my Netflix plan was only regular HD and my answer was that I watched 4K videos from Youtube.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

^ I think he was asking how I could evaluate 4K streaming when my Netflix plan was only regular HD and my answer was that I watched 4K videos from Youtube.

Ah right.

[traths]

I would rather have the physical copy over digital. Who cares if it takes up space, I don't really spend my money on much else.

[princessgleek]

I used to add all my digital copies to uv, flixster etc but i find I rarely use them anymore

[veritas]

One thing that makes me mistrust digital is the fact that digital now has zero good customer service representatives. If you have a problem iTunes blames ma, ma blames vudu and vudu blames iTunes or ma (throw in a few blame the studios and add them to the loop on occasion). They literally all just blame each other and almost never fix shit. The last problem I had took me 3 hours on the phone with iTunes to get them to file a bug report on where the problem was happening and it took 3 months for them to actually fix the problem.

As far as vudu and ma go I have never actually seen them fix a problem.

The only company that had actually competent customer service was Disney and they ruined that when they became ma and stopped doing customer service. At this point you would probably have to sue to get individual problems fixed and they would still probably all point fingers at each other.

On the other hand if I have a disc problem I can return it to the seller or get a replacement from the studio. The problem normally can be resolved in minutes on my part.

[brentsg]

Originally Posted by veritas

One thing that makes me mistrust digital is the fact that digital now has zero good customer service representatives. If you have a problem iTunes blames ma, ma blames vudu and vudu blames iTunes or ma (throw in a few blame the studios and add them to the loop on occasion). They literally all just blame each other and almost never fix shit. The last problem I had took me 3 hours on the phone with iTunes to get them to file a bug report on where the problem was happening and it took 3 months for them to actually fix the problem.

As far as vudu and ma go I have never actually seen them fix a problem.

The only company that had actually competent customer service was Disney and they ruined that when they became ma and stopped doing customer service. At this point you would probably have to sue to get individual problems fixed and they would still probably all point fingers at each other.

On the other hand if I have a disc problem I can return it to the seller or get a replacement from the studio. The problem normally can be resolved in minutes on my part.

This is a great point. Flixster in the US used to fix all of my UV problems, but that's ancient history now. The most that I've ever gotten Vudu to do is remove something from my library, but that doesn't always even work.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

This backs up my theory that more and more people are switching to mobile devices for films. Someone else was a few pages back. If you don’t respect films enough to watch on the big screen, Digital is for sure the format of choice.

And just how big does 'the big screen' have to be in order to 'respect' a film? Does 'the big screen' have to be measured in feet or is a TV 'respectful' enough? When you were respecting films in the VHS era how big was your screen? 19 inches? 25 inches? Do you think those screens were more or less respectful than the average computer monitor is today?

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I make this point every few months but it’s met with gifs and patronising posts,...

Your doom and gloom is met with ridicule because you regularly take it to ridiculous extremes.

People are watching stuff on small screens! Pretty soon everybody is going to stop buying TVs and before you know it companies are going to stop making TVs and then nobody will be able to have one!! We'll all have to watch movies on phones and watches!!!

It's absurd.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Soon any talk of quality will be irrelevant because you guys will be watching on mobile devices.

But I won't be watching on a mobile device so what do I care. I'll be watching on TVs that get bigger and better and cheaper every year or on projectors that get smaller and better and cheaper every year.

Or maybe I will watch some stuff on mobile devices too. Maybe instead of watching Morning Joe in the living room I'll take my coffee and my cigar and a laptop or a tablet out to the back deck and watch it there.

Options...oh the horror of it all

[echopulse]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

This backs up my theory that more and more people are switching to mobile devices for films. Someone else was a few pages back. If you don’t respect films enough to watch on the big screen, Digital is for sure the format of choice.

I make this point every few months but it’s met with gifs and patronising posts, yet I constantly see evidence even in this thread. Soon any talk of quality will be irrelevant because you guys will be watching on mobile devices.

Every few months? I think it must be at least once a week. But an anecdote here and there does not prove your theory. Neilson reported that 92% of the time adults spent watching Video was on a TV screen. Only 2.5% of the time spent was on a mobile phone or tablet.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/26/ni...the-tv-screen/

[Vilya]

Not to pile on, but I have never believed this contention that viewing videos on a TV was in any way endangered. Sorry, but there is no evidence that I have seen that supports this idea. The data I have seen shows that 4K TV purchases are showing healthy growth and that screen sizes, on average, are getting bigger.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have watched 4K Youtube videos on my 4K TV; mostly the pretty time lapsed nature and urban themed ones.

I have been tempted to try Netflix in 4K as I am still in my free trial period, but I am not sure if they offer enough 4K content to make it worthwhile. Plus, I do have rather spotty internet service that can, in theory, handle 4K streaming, but I am currently capped at 250 GB of data per month. A higher cap would cost more, of course, and the next level offered is 400 GB per month for about $10 more per month. My speeds are 80 down and 9 up when all is working well.

I don't how good Youtube's 4K video streams are considered to be compared to other streaming providers, but what I saw looked very good to me while still falling short of a 4K disc.

95% of Netflix original shows and movies are in 4K and/or HDR. (not sure exact % but almost all of them are. Even the foreign ones. Netflix pretty much requires it)

https://backlothelp.netflix.com/hc/e...-Image-Capture