Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

See this is what I mean, making a blanket statement without checking the facts. Sony Ultra has the highest Bitrates, and all their Movies are 4K+HDR. So until you or someone else checks this out for themselves that it's not Disc Quality, then you can't really make this statement. Blu-ray Disc Players have a maximum Bitrate of 40Mbps, easily achieved by any top quality Streaming Provider so the Playing Field has been leveled.

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Ultra HD Blu-ray has a maximum bitrate of 128Mbps. You'd know that if you checked facts instead of making blanket statements.

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Holy moly, that’s some high bitrates, Batman!

Originally Posted by Vilya

All you are saying is that the bitrate of a 4K streamed title is equivalent to the bitrate from a 1080p blu-ray disc. That is in no way a level playing field and it is a goofy comparison. Saying a 4K stream looks as good as a 1080p blu-ray disc is not something to brag about; a 4K stream should look, and sound, just as excellent as a 4K UHD disc and it objectively and quantitatively does not.

I was comparing Blu-ray Disc to Digital HD, where the maximum Bitrate on a Blu-ray Player is 40Mbps. This Bitrate is easily achieved by any High Quality Streaming Provider. I was talking about Sony Ultra where all their Movies are 4K+HDR, but drop down in Bitrate to HD+HDR if you don't have the 4K Version. Making the Bitrate for HD easily match Blu-ray Disc. Now matching UHD Discs at 128Mbps is a large step, but not impossible. Talking to their Support, their goal is to match Disc Quality for 4K UHD. All you would need is Bandwidth in the 200Mbps range, which some here have. My ISP is looking to offer Gigabit Fiber, so UHD Disc Quality is not out of the question.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

95% of Netflix original shows and movies are in 4K and/or HDR. (not sure exact % but almost all of them are. Even the foreign ones. Netflix pretty much requires it)

https://backlothelp.netflix.com/hc/e...-Image-Capture

Thanks for the information, but I suspect my current data cap is insufficient for regular 4k streaming and I have no idea how high it would need to be.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All you would need is Bandwidth in the 200Mbps range, which some here have. My ISP is looking to offer Gigabit Fiber, so UHD Disc Quality is not out of the question.

That's great for you and others, but 80Mbps is all I get and 100 is the most I could have here in Hooterville and that leaves me out of your brave new world.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The data I have seen shows that 4K TV purchases are showing healthy growth and that screen sizes, on average, are getting bigger.

The only grain of truth is a slight dip over the past couple years in both unit sales and household penetration rates in the US and the UK.

The sales dip is due in part to a flattening of sales following the glut that happened during the Great Migration from SD to HD. It's also due in part to the same things that are impacting penetration rates - a tiny number of people are ditching TVs in favor of TVs that are technically monitors (no internal tuner) and projectors and a larger (but still very small relative to the overall market) number of people are replacing what would have been small bed room or dorm TVs with laptops, tablets or computer monitors.

When I was in high school I had a 12" b&w portable in my bedroom and the tvs in my first several apartments weren't a lot bigger than that. My nieces and nephews watch stuff on larger, high-definition color displays that can access all manner of content and run all manner of games and apps.

That's not cause for alarm, that's progress.

And speaking of progress, yeah, tvs are getting bigger, all right.

It wasn't that long ago that a 50" tv was an appliance-sized behemoth limited to rec room and basement duty. Now people here look at a 50" screen as entry-level, 65" is medium-sized and large is between 70" and almost 90". My freaking projection screen is 'only' 96"

And all over the past what? Ten years maybe?

It's insane.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

That's great for you and others, but 80Mbps is all I get and 100 is the most I could have here in Hooterville and that leaves me out of your brave new world.

Netflix recommends at least 25mbps for UHD streaming.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

Netflix recommends at least 25mbps for UHD streaming.

I have the speed to stream 4K, but my main concern is the question of data caps. I only have 250 gb per month and 4K streaming is a hungry hippo.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have the speed to stream 4K, but my main concern is the question of data caps. I only have 250 gb per month and 4K streaming is a hungry hippo.

I've used anywhere from 560 to almost 700 gb the last few months. This is mainly UHD TV though

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

I've used anywhere from 560 to almost 700 gb the last few months. This is mainly UHD TV though

Wow, I would have to nearly triple my data cap if I used it as much as you do. About how many viewing hours, in 4k streaming, would you estimate that to be?

[bladerunner1]

Three hundred and seventy three pages in..

Has anyone changed their mind yet?

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by bladerunner1

Three hundred and seventy three pages in..

Has anyone changed their mind yet?

Doubt it. Nobody seems to be budging. We all better throw out some more statistics/anecdotes to see if that helps our cause.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bladerunner1

Three hundred and seventy three pages in..

Has anyone changed their mind yet?

Not me.

[stonesfan129]

I love VUDU and I have a 60mbps internet connection here at my house. But last night I rented Thor Ragnarok and I counted at least 4-5 times that it sat buffering for about 30 seconds each. The last time, the stream failed and I had to go back in and start it again and then fast forward to where I was last watching. I had no issues connecting to other online services. It could have just been that I was on the wireless (my Xbox One S is about 10 feet away from my wireless router). But it's this unreliability that will keep me from switching permanently to streaming. Thor Ragnarok was actually not a bad movie btw if you like Thor movies.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I love VUDU and I have a 60mbps internet connection here at my house. But last night I rented Thor Ragnarok and I counted at least 4-5 times that it sat buffering for about 30 seconds each. The last time, the stream failed and I had to go back in and start it again and then fast forward to where I was last watching. I had no issues connecting to other online services. It could have just been that I was on the wireless (my Xbox One S is about 10 feet away from my wireless router). But it's this unreliability that will keep me from switching permanently to streaming. Thor Ragnarok was actually not a bad movie btw if you like Thor movies.

Yes, for reliable Streaming you need a Solid ISP with no Caps and Hard Wired to your Home Theater. Use Wireless for only your Mobile Devices.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All you would need is Bandwidth in the 200Mbps range, which some here have. My ISP is looking to offer Gigabit Fiber, so UHD Disc Quality is not out of the question.

Originally Posted by Vilya

That's great for you and others, but 80Mbps is all I get and 100 is the most I could have here in Hooterville and that leaves me out of your brave new world.

Originally Posted by flyry

Netflix recommends at least 25mbps for UHD streaming.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have the speed to stream 4K, but my main concern is the question of data caps. I only have 250 gb per month and 4K streaming is a hungry hippo.

To Stream good quality UHD 25Mbps is the minimum, but 50+Mbps is recommended. Now if you don't have an ISP that doesn't have Caps, then you will have to see if they can raise the limit without fees. Going forward this is going to be a big problem, that's why I say Fiber as an Infrastructure is needed.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Yes, for reliable Streaming you need a Solid ISP with no Caps and Hard Wired to your Home Theater. Use Wireless for only your Mobile Devices.

So with my internet connection, why would discs not be more advantageous? Another real problem I have with streaming and digital is that you never really have control over what you "buy."

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

To Stream good quality UHD 25Mbps is the minimum, but 50+Mbps is recommended. Now if you don't have an ISP that doesn't have Caps, then you will have to see if they can raise the limit without fees. Going forward this is going to be a big problem, that's why I say Fiber as an Infrastructure is needed.

My ISP barely answers their phone without wanting a rate increase. Each step up on my data cap is another $10 per month minimum. $10 more would raise my data cap to a mere 400 GB per month.

4K streaming eats a lot of bandwidth and my ISP gouges its customers every which way it can. I am still amazed that ISPs get away with charging rental fees for their crappy modems, routers, or "gateways" as AT&T called their combo units. After renting for about 10 months, the customer has more than paid for what the modem and router would cost to own, especially seeing as their ISP provided the cheapest equipment they could. Many customers probably do not realize how inexpensive modems and routers are compared to what they are paying to rent the equipment and their ISP is certainly not going to educate them. It all reminds me of when people leased their home phones before learning how affordable a phone was to own.

Now I must return to my video game that requires an internet connection to play while my ISP is still cooperating. The baton has been passed.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

So with my internet connection, why would discs not be more advantageous? Another real problem I have with streaming and digital is that you never really have control over what you "buy."

I think discs are more advantageous (surprise!) for both of these concerns even if you had state of the art internet service. Even when I lived in a more densely populated suburban area and had the best internet offered there, AT&T's U-Verse, it still had reliability issues and numerous service interruptions. It seemed like every time a squirrel pissed down a tree the internet went out.

Discs offer the best quality even if that gap is shrinking in the blessed markets with uber internet. Discs have the best reliability and provide control over the content. Discs often include the digital code if you want the convenience of anywhere access or the ability to share with others without lending out the actual disc (heaven forbid!).

Streaming is convenient and it offers access from virtually anywhere and to a lot of stuff you may only want to see once or are unsure about wanting to own. It is also very inexpensive. I consider Netflix to be my sampler platter buffet, but anything I really like I will purchase on disc.

[veritas]

I will say the wb has some amazing digital copy support. They cant really help you after the codes redeemed but if a code doesn't work they are the best. I have had them fix it on a Saturday by email in under 5 minutes.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

To Stream good quality UHD 25Mbps is the minimum, but 50+Mbps is recommended. Now if you don't have an ISP that doesn't have Caps, then you will have to see if they can raise the limit without fees. Going forward this is going to be a big problem, that's why I say Fiber as an Infrastructure is needed.

Originally Posted by Vilya

My ISP barely answers their phone without wanting a rate increase. Each step up on my data cap is another $10 per month minimum. $10 more would raise my data cap to a mere 400 GB per month.

4K streaming eats a lot of bandwidth and my ISP gouges its customers every which way it can. I am still amazed that ISPs get away with charging rental fees for their crappy modems, routers, or "gateways" as AT&T called their combo units.

I agree, Caps are a pain, but they are put in to control the heavy users and to balance out the available Bandwidth. That's why you get those drops in Bandwidth at certain times when everyone jumps on the Network. With a robust Fiber Network, you have more Bandwidth and the Caps are not needed.

[bladerunner1]

Originally Posted by Vilya

My ISP barely answers their phone without wanting a rate increase. Each step up on my data cap is another $10 per month minimum. $10 more would raise my data cap to a mere 400 GB per month.

4K streaming eats a lot of bandwidth and my ISP gouges its customers every which way it can. I am still amazed that ISPs get away with charging rental fees for their crappy modems, routers, or "gateways" as AT&T called their combo units. After renting for about 10 months, the customer has more than paid for what the modem and router would cost to own, especially seeing as their ISP provided the cheapest equipment they could. Many customers probably do not realize how inexpensive modems and routers are compared to what they are paying to rent the equipment and their ISP is certainly not going to educate them. It all reminds me of when people leased their home phones before learning how affordable a phone was to own.

Now I must return to my video game that requires an internet connection to play while my ISP is still cooperating. The baton has been passed.

You may want to look into a VPN for all of your internet use and save that 400GB for streaming. I recommend Windscribe.