Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Oh yeah, don't get me started on the issues with redeeming codes.

Last year was when I really started redeeming them. It was a headache and a half. Though most all of them were UV, it seemed like the process of getting the accounts set up (linking up Vudu and UV, etc.) was a pain and a half, and then the way that the copy is actually redeemed varies from one studio to another, with some of them being absurdly complicated as you described. I wanted to bang my head against the wall at one point!

I guess the only good part about that is maybe people who are just "dipping their toe into the water" of digital by trying to redeem codes might get discouraged over the complications involved with it.

It was definitely a lot of work to go through my entire collection redeeming codes last year.

Early on, I had trouble redeeming The Great Gatsby through Flixster, so I opened up a chat with customer service. Even they didn't have any good advice. As we chatted, I also googled it and discovered that I could redeem the code directly through Vudu, which worked just fine. It was pretty funny that that person's one job was to figure out how to solve my basic problem and it stumped them.

Since then I've been through all kinds of different scenarios, but it's all worked out in the end. I agree that most people would have probably given up or settled for less (like when some UV codes redeem in SD instead of HDX, and I have to get them to upgrade it for me).

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Making rips of CDs you own is perfectly legal. Keeping rips of CDs you no longer own is piracy. It's pretty much the most basic form of piracy: having a copy of something you don't own.

So by your own logic anyone who buys digital movies, but do not own a Physical copy, then it's Piracy!

You guys are toooo funny.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

In fact it is illegal in the UK to rip a CD or DVD even for personal back up.

Now that is an interesting Fact that I did not know

Serious question: Does iTunes U.K. have the burn CD option? How could they??

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

So by your own logic anyone who buys digital movies, but do not own a Physical copy, then it's Piracy!

You guys are toooo funny.

Actually, the best comparison would be Vudu's Disc-to-Digital program. You take your DVD or Blu-ray and use it to purchase a discounted UV copy of the movie. Now, you must own the disc you are using, though, and continue to own it afterwards or you are breaking the rules. Sounds pretty identical to the policies surrounding CD ripping.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

So by your own logic anyone who buys digital movies, but do not own a Physical copy, then it's Piracy!

You guys are toooo funny.



Now that is an interesting Fact that I did not know

Serious question: Does iTunes U.K. have the burn CD option? How could they??

Yes!

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

It's all a matter of perspective. I understand that you believe that digital will destroy home cinema. alchav21 looks at it from the perspective that all modern formats are digital, and technically he's right. Blu-ray is still digital (not analog like VHS), even if it's of a much higher file size than Digital HD. It's also a smaller file size than that of UHD Blu-ray. And all are a much smaller file size than that of the DCP used for digital cinemas. Yes, it's almost all digital these days. Just different levels of quality.

Originally Posted by master gandhi

It was definitely a lot of work to go through my entire collection redeeming codes last year.

Early on, I had trouble redeeming The Great Gatsby through Flixster, so I opened up a chat with customer service. Even they didn't have any good advice. As we chatted, I also googled it and discovered that I could redeem the code directly through Vudu, which worked just fine. It was pretty funny that that person's one job was to figure out how to solve my basic problem and it stumped them.

Since then I've been through all kinds of different scenarios, but it's all worked out in the end. I agree that most people would have probably given up or settled for less (like when some UV codes redeem in SD instead of HDX, and I have to get them to upgrade it for me).

Including new digital movies is still cinema, any way you look at it, and master gandhi is moving with the times. Nothing wrong with that, he too has seen the future and has embraced it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Including new digital movies is still cinema, any way you look at it, and master gandhi is moving with the times. Nothing wrong with that, he too has seen the future and has embraced it.

But does that future include the tv?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

So by your own logic anyone who buys digital movies, but do not own a Physical copy, then it's Piracy!

No, you aren't getting it (though I think you are doing that on purpose).

Here are examples of things that are and are not piracy:

NOT PIRACY:
-Buying a CD and ripping it to iTunes (or similar)
-Borrowing a CD from a friend or a library to listen to temporarily and return
-Lending a DVD or Blu-Ray to a friend or relative
-Giving/Selling a DVD or Blu-Ray (or music CD) that you no longer want to someone else.
-Buying a movie digitally
-Buying a combo pack and giving away/selling parts of it you don't want (i.e. keeping the Blu-Ray, selling the DVD or digital copy code)


PIRACY:
-Ripping a CD that you own to iTunes, selling off the CD, and keeping the digital version.
-Borrowing a CD from a friend or Library, ripping a copy of it for yourself, then giving back the CD.
-Burning a copy or ripping a DVD/Blu-Ray, keeping the copy/rip, and then selling off the original disc.
-Burning copies of a DVD/Blu-Ray/CD that you own and selling off/giving away the copies.
-Illegally downloading movies, TV shows, and/or music.


Now sure, some of these things may come across as splitting hairs (i.e. giving away a digital copy slip to someone vs. ripping a DVD/Blu-Ray that didn't come with a digital copy and giving the ripped file to someone), but that's how it all technically lands.

I don't personally care all that much that you ripped your CDs and sold them off, but technically that IS piracy.

[unsung122212]

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

Why does the player matter? You ignored the fact that I can watch True Lies on my old fashioned disc while with streaming you can't watch True Lies even if you want to. For all intents and purposes the movie doesn't exist anymore for you.

[Show spoiler]Yeah not the same thing. Fair use includes lending YOUR copy of a CD or movie. It does not include making a burned copy and lending that out or selling your original copy. There isn't any insane justification here. These are facts and facts are indisputable.

Actually, I 'own' True Lies on Vudu in HDX and I can still play the movie (just tested to see if it would, and it did). It is just that, at least on Vudu, I can't buy or rent True Lies. If one has previously bought it before it was removed from the store, then that person still has access to it. The only issue I have Vudu when they remove something from their store to buy/rent, is that the film can't be found thru a search, you have to scroll all the down your Vudu library to find it.

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

Originally Posted by unsung122212

Actually, I 'own' True Lies on Vudu in HDX and I can still play the movie (just tested to see if it would, and it did). It is just that, at least on Vudu, I can't buy or rent True Lies. If one has previously bought it before it was removed from the store, then that person still has access to it. The only issue I have Vudu when they remove something from their store to buy/rent, is that the film can't be found thru a search, you have to scroll all the down your Vudu library to find it.

That isn't very conducive to streaming people wanting to see it though unless they already own it. The only failsafe with digital is to buy it before some invisible date comes that it becomes no longer available? Another example that bugged me is i went to rent Spy after people repeatedly telling me it was good. Well i just so happened to miss the rental window and it was no longer available when i was ready to watch it. I don't want to be ready on their time or buy it to secure it.

I enjoy streaming rentals, but they need to lock these rights down better or give you a date listed on when the movie will no longer be available to be rented.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by tele1962

Maybe so, but when correctly done any artefacts will be eliminated to give a true representation of the original elements used..........

Even the best Blu-ray is far from being identical to the original elements. Many compromises were made when designing the format to achieve the cost required for a mass consumer product.

which will never be the case for digital.

There are already downloads that are better than Blu-ray.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by tele1962

I would love for one of the digital enthusiasts to help us out with this question, as so far not one has answered.

Data caps will not be an issue for stationary Internet access. What's happening behind the scenes is a tussle over revenue shares, but everyone wants this to work. What do you think why Comcast just raised the cap in their test markets?

Which begs the question are they only interested in the latest Hollywood Blockbuster?

Not sure what you are referring to. I for one have very little interest in the latest Marvel blockbusters etc.

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But does that future include the tv?

Here in N.A., most kids that move out of their parents home are not renting from Cable Companies for cable but are eager to buy a 4K TV and fast Internet. They simply stream their favourite TV shows. TV sales are not lacking in the box stores or online like Amazon ect...

TV ain’t going nowhere and neither is digital.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

To support a format that is going to disrupt and possibly destroy home cinema? You don't see that?

You keep repeating this. Doesn't mean that other people believe it. I think that, on the contrary, digital delivery has the potential to reinvigorate home cinema. For one, it is much easier for publishers (particularly smaller ones) to release less well-known gems and catalog movies, since they don't have to sell tens of thousands of discs to break even. There are already lots of catalog releases in HD on iTunes or Vudu that have never been released on Blu-ray (and probably never will) because it's not profitable.

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I see Digital as the enemy. The format that will bring down the big screen experience at home and in the cinema. Devastating if It happens.

SteepHeels, It’s actually the opposite, it saved it. It killed the local rental stores like (Blockbuster), but that was simply because it was that much easier to rent/buy it at home without having to leave your living room.

If they stop selling physical discs, I will still watch movies, new and old, and so will all of you.

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Even the best Blu-ray is far from being identical to the original elements. Many compromises were made when designing the format to achieve the cost required for a mass consumer product.
There are already downloads that are better than Blu-ray.

In which way, it comes very close if done correctly and in some cases will look better than it ever has.

Where and not for PQ they aint.

I will try one more time, if we go down the download root what then happens to the restoration and remaster of film material as it is like taking a high end remasterd audio track and being made to listening to it on a telephone.

Rocket Richard has already stated he is not interested in PQ and many who seen the demise of PDP for LCD said exactly the same, so that choice was eventually removed from us.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

If they stop selling physical discs, I will still watch movies, new and old, and so will all of you.

Too true. Most (if not all) of the individuals opposing Digital HD today will change their tune if it takes over physical media. I'm not saying they'd change their tune overnight, because it wouldn't happen overnight. In all likelihood, if digital takes over completely, it'll be because it has caught up to and even exceeded the quality of physical media. I'm not saying that's already happened, but if it does, there won't be much left to complain about. Then again, I do understand that the industry could choose digital for the cost benefits instead of its potential to rival physical media's quality. I hope quality still wins. That's why I haven't given up completely on physical media. I want the industry to realize that we demand the same quality of digital as we do physical.

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Too true. Most (if not all) of the individuals opposing Digital HD today will change their tune if it takes over physical media. I'm not saying they'd change their tune overnight, because it wouldn't happen overnight. In all likelihood, if digital takes over completely, it'll be because it has caught up to and even exceeded the quality of physical media. I'm not saying that's already happened, but if it does, there won't be much left to complain about.

Oh yes there will. Choice!

Again:

Where would I be able to download all of this?

Deep Red - The Arrow Video Story - YouTube

Would we have companies going out of there way to give us the best PQ or will be stuck with anything the download gives to us and no one accountable for a crap transfer because no one gives a dam about PQ?

[Krizzle1]

Originally Posted by tele1962

In which way, it comes very close if done correctly and in some cases will look better than it ever has.

Where and not for PQ they aint.

I will try one more time, if we go down the download root what then happens to the restoration and remaster of film material as it is like taking a high end remasterd audio track and being made to listening to it on a telephone.

Rocket Richard has already stated he is not interested in PQ and many who seen the demise of PDP for LCD said exactly the same, so that choice was eventually removed from us.

I dont think you understand how downloading works, you can download high picture quality movies with the high end audio tracks. These downloads are often around the actual size of the bluray almost a 1:1 copy, but yeah you can download a remaster of a film which has audio that sounds like its been ran through a potato

[Rocket Richard]

Ummm, how about the digital link you included????

Originally Posted by tele1962

Where would I be able to download all of this?

Deep Red - The Arrow Video Story - YouTube

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Ummm, how about the digital link you included????

It is purely an advertisement for a product, not sure where you are coming from?