Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Fiffy]

The telcos and cablecos are primarily trying to receive a bigger share of the revenue from the OTT providers, not so much the end users. They claim (with some justification) that companies like Google, Amazon, Apple, and Netflix are raking in huge profits on their backs, while they are footing the bill for the required infrastructure upgrades and have much smaller profit margins and stagnating revenues.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

The telcos and cablecos are primarily trying to receive a bigger share of the revenue from the OTT providers, not so much the end users. They claim (with some justification) that companies like Google, Amazon, Apple, and Netflix are raking in huge profits on their backs, while they are footing the bill for the required infrastructure upgrades and have much smaller profit margins and stagnating revenues.

I would say that the telecomms want to pick the pockets of both; it's just that one of them has deeper pockets than the other.

A utility needs to make a profit off of the service they provide, but surely no one would suggest that they are entitled to a share in the profits earned by their clients? You could apply that idea to the electric utilities; all companies earn handsomely from access to the power grid, too. All utility customers should pay a reasonable price for the services they use regardless of their individual profitability.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I would say that the telecomms want to pick the pockets of both; it's just that one of them has deeper pockets than the other.

A utility needs to make a profit off of the service they provide, but surely no one would suggest that they are entitled to a share in the profits earned by their clients?

They feel they aren't being appropriately compensated for the investments they are making (which largely benefit the OTT providers). There are many factors at play (e.g. they are much more restricted by regulations than the Googles of the world).

I'm not taking sides here, but the difference in profit margins between the telcos and the OTTs is pretty staggering. People like to accuse the telcos of greed, but the financial facts point in another direction ...

You could apply that idea to the electric utilities; all companies earn handsomely from access to the power grid, too. All utility customers should pay a reasonable price for the services they use regardless of their individual profitability.

Sure, but the question is what price is reasonable.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I would say the marketplace is far more "caveat emptor" than "kumbaya."

I didn't kumbaya, I said it works.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Telecomms have a reputation that precedes them and it is not a sterling one. Their ethics record is arguably only marginally better than that of the banking industry.

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

They feel they aren't being appropriately compensated for the investments they are making (which largely benefit the OTT providers). There are many factors at play (e.g. they are much more restricted by regulations than the Googles of the world).

I'm not taking sides here, but the difference in profit margins between the telcos and the OTTs is pretty staggering. People like to accuse the telcos of greed, but the financial facts point in another direction ...
Sure, but the question is what price is reasonable.

All utilities have to maintain and improve their infrastructure, nature of the beast. The costs of such maintenance and improvements should be properly reflected in the rates charged for their services. How much their customers earn should be irrelevant.

I do accuse the telcos of being greedy because they have a proven track record of it. They may not be the greediest of the greedy; I would likely give that title to the banking industry, but they are most definitely avaricious. Just because someone else is better at it, does not make them less so.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by octagon

I didn't kumbaya, I said it works.

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly.

I never said that you said "kumbaya"; I came up with that line to contrast with your cheery dance description. It made for a slightly alliterative phrase, I thought. I had to look up the spelling, too. I put such great effort into my rants.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Vilya

All utilities have to maintain and improve their infrastructure, nature of the beast. The costs of such maintenance and improvements should be properly reflected in the rates charged for their services. How much their customers earn should be irrelevant.

The cost of goods and services should primarily be determined by supply and demand, not by operating cost. In the telco sector it doesn't really work that way though because the markets are distorted.

I do accuse the telcos of being greedy because they have a proven track record of it. They may not be the greediest of the greedy; I would likely give that title to the banking industry, but they are most definitely avaricious. Just because someone else is better at it, does not make them less so.

I'd say they are just bad at marketing themselves. Other companies are gouging their customers much more and are still beloved (a prime example being Apple, which BTW wouldn't be where they are today without mobile network operators).

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

The cost of goods and services should primarily be determined by supply and demand, not by operating cost.

But you need to also consider that utilities are quite often a monopoly in the markets where the operate, so the "supply" side of the equation needs to be viewed accordingly.

I have to pretend that you did not even mention Apple as that could unleash a lengthy rant and a half. Suffice it to say I am not a fan of theirs.

At least this is a different discussion.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by irighti

for a certain percentage sure, but for the vast majority I do not see that happening. although when I was out of college I would have killed for the options to have these services on a portable device, with the ability to cast from that device to a tv. cheap entertainment when you are first starting out would have been welcomed by me.

I have nou doubt things will look differently in a decade. I think it will only get better from the consumer side. fingers crossed of course.

We wouldn't have Roku, Fire TV, Apple TV, Chromecast etc if TVs were in danger.


Roku recently topped sales projections. In fact Roku stock has quadrupled in the past 6 months.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

The telcos and cablecos are primarily trying to receive a bigger share of the revenue from the OTT providers, not so much the end users. They claim (with some justification) that companies like Google, Amazon, Apple, and Netflix are raking in huge profits on their backs, while they are footing the bill for the required infrastructure upgrades and have much smaller profit margins and stagnating revenues.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I would say that the telecomms want to pick the pockets of both; it's just that one of them has deeper pockets than the other.

A utility needs to make a profit off of the service they provide, but surely no one would suggest that they are entitled to a share in the profits earned by their clients? You could apply that idea to the electric utilities; all companies earn handsomely from access to the power grid, too. All utility customers should pay a reasonable price for the services they use regardless of their individual profitability.

Originally Posted by Vilya

All utilities have to maintain and improve their infrastructure, nature of the beast. The costs of such maintenance and improvements should be properly reflected in the rates charged for their services. How much their customers earn should be irrelevant.

I do accuse the telcos of being greedy because they have a proven track record of it. They may not be the greediest of the greedy; I would likely give that title to the banking industry, but they are most definitely avaricious. Just because someone else is better at it, does not make them less so.

I guess this discussion goes back to we are headed for a Streaming Digital Market, and a Fiber Infrastructure is needed. Having Retired from AT&T I know the Telco's set up and run the Fiber Backbone. So they are in an ideal position to offer Fiber all the way into your Home. Like I said, Copper is Obsolete, and it should be clear Fiber is the only way to go. Everyone was real excited about Wireless, and there is certainly a need for this too. So 5G Wireless will be there for Mobile Devices and people that don't have access to Fiber.

Now the Telco's are not going to upgrade unless the people are going to buy their Services. We have seen Fiber Deployment come to a stop because of lack of interest with AT&T, Google, and Verizon. So if you live in areas where Fiber can be available, you have to get active in your Community, City, or HOA and make it happen......or Move!

[bubba111]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I guess this discussion goes back to we are headed for a Streaming Digital Market, and a Fiber Infrastructure is needed. Having Retired from AT&T I know the Telco's set up and run the Fiber Backbone. So they are in an ideal position to offer Fiber all the way into your Home. Like I said, Copper is Obsolete, and it should be clear Fiber is the only way to go. Everyone was real excited about Wireless, and there is certainly a need for this too. So 5G Wireless will be there for Mobile Devices and people that don't have access to Fiber.

Now the Telco's are not going to upgrade unless the people are going to buy their Services. We have seen Fiber Deployment come to a stop because of lack of interest with AT&T, Google, and Verizon. So if you live in areas where Fiber can be available, you have to get active in your Community, City, or HOA and make it happen......or Move!

Please just stop with the "move" bit. Nobody in their right mind is going to move just to get marginally better Internet.

I'm as big a fan of digital as anyone, but your constant obsession with returning every post to fiber is just plain weird. There's also a lot of other reasons to use digital and this harping obscures some more useful dialogue.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I had access to UV which was the same principle but a disaster. It didn’t work. The idea was Movies Anywhere but that should have been Movies Anywhere but your tv.

As for Movies Anywhere, I understand how it works, of course I do.

If you did you wouldn't suggest such outrageous paranoia that goes completely against how it's meant to work.

You always suggest these things you think these companies will do that go against common sense and good business practices.

We live in a time when enough backlash on social media can get you to fall back in the snap of a finger (word to the xbox one launch), yet you think companies will start deleting titles and charging monthly subscriptions to access your Movies Anywhere titles that you've ALREADY purchased.

#makesnosense

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by bubba111

Please just stop with the "move" bit. Nobody in their right mind is going to move just to get marginally better Internet.

I'm as big a fan of digital as anyone, but your constant obsession with returning every post to fiber is just plain weird. There's also a lot of other reasons to use digital and this harping obscures some more useful dialogue.

Everyone has their priorities, but we were talking about Infrastructure upgrades and the move was as a last resort. I have moved many times for different reasons, so it's not that difficult for me and my list of priorities have changed. I have lived in the Bay Area too, and the cost of living and property values are high so moving within that area would be difficult. AT&T is there so getting Fiber GigaPower is not out of the question. People just have to be realistic now, if they want to be upgraded to Fiber the Community has to commit 100% and I'm sure AT&T will listen. Otherwise, you just settle for what you have and what they are willing to give you. I just don't see it getting any better, and Bandwidth will be at a premium.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

If you did you wouldn't suggest such outrageous paranoia that goes completely against how it's meant to work.

You always suggest these things you think these companies will do that go against common sense and good business practices.

We live in a time when enough backlash on social media can get you to fall back in the snap of a finger (word to the xbox one launch), yet you think companies will start deleting titles and charging monthly subscriptions to access your Movies Anywhere titles that you've ALREADY purchased.

#makesnosense

Can you stop all this hashtag shit firstly please?

You are presuming Digital HD will somehow become more relevant. It won’t. As user number shrink, just keeping these lockers going isn’t going to be viable. Already Subscription is overshadowing Digital HD by a huge margin. Collecting on digital is a no man’s land and Movies Anywhere is about five years too late to the party.

[stonesfan129]

Always buy the disc. You never really "own" cloud copies and can be locked out at any time either by whomever owns the IP rights to the movie or because you don't have internet connection.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Always buy the disc. You never really "own" cloud copies and can be locked out at any time either by whomever owns the IP rights to the movie or because you don't have internet connection.

It’s just a long term rental.

[tobz]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Always buy the disc. You never really "own" cloud copies and can be locked out at any time either by whomever owns the IP rights to the movie or because you don't have internet connection.

They can also downgrade the quality when they want. I just had this happen to about 150 of my iTunes purchases, they were HD but are now SD. Lost iTunes extras as well.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Always buy the disc. You never really "own" cloud copies and can be locked out at any time either by whomever owns the IP rights to the movie or because you don't have internet connection.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It’s just a long term rental.

Originally Posted by tobz

They can also downgrade the quality when they want. I just had this happen to about 150 of my iTunes purchases, they were HD but are now SD. Lost iTunes extras as well.

The problem is how many Movies do you want to keep to watch over and over, I say not many. Usually one time is enough, so Rental or Digital HD at a reasonable price are all you need. I can't speak to iTunes, you guys are kind of locked into their Ecosystem. With MA Digital HD you have many Providers to access all your Collection.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The problem is how many Movies do you want to keep to watch over and over, I say not many. Usually one time is enough, so Rental or Digital HD at a reasonable price are all you need. I can't speak to iTunes, you guys are kind of locked into their Ecosystem. With MA Digital HD you have many Providers to access all your Collection.

There are thousands of films I would like to watch again and do on a regular basis. I have always had the ability to enjoy films over and over. That’s why I collect?

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by tobz

They can also downgrade the quality when they want. I just had this happen to about 150 of my iTunes purchases, they were HD but are now SD. Lost iTunes extras as well.

Have you contacted support? This is not normal.