Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Vilya

In this youtube video, the reviewer contrasts the Apple TV 4K with 4K UHD disc playback on an Oppo 203. It has been posted on this thread before, but around the 4:55 to 5:45 minute mark, he observes that the Apple 4K TV was averaging a bitrate of 15-16 Mbps with peaks around 30 Mbps.

That's only for the Transformers movie (I don't have that one so I can't check). Later in the video he shows another movie (Spiderman?) with similarly high bitrates as I saw.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by IronSoldier

The article is 2015 and last updated June 2017. Apple didn't start streaming 4k until later in 2017 with the arrival of their new Apple TV 4k. Needs to be updated. I've also contacted sony to clarify bit rates they use right now.

That would explain the omission from that table alright. The updated article I cited was the most recent one I could find on the subject. It will be interesting to see what information Sony provides to you in their reply.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

That's only for the Transformers movie (I don't have that one so I can't check). Later in the video he shows another movie (Spiderman?) with similarly high bitrates as I saw.

At the 21:40 mark, the reviewer revised his Apple TV 4K bitrate number for Transformers The Last Knight to an average bitrate of 10-18 Mbps with peaks of 25 Mbps. He then says that for Spider-man Homecoming that both the average and peak bitrates were about 20 Mbps.

Correction: the 20 Mbps should be 30 Mbps; I misheard what the reviewer said.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Vilya

At the 21:40 mark, the reviewer revised his bitrate number for Transformers The Last Knight to an average bitrate of 10-18 Mbps with peaks of 25 Mbps. He then says that for Spider-man Homecoming that both the average and peak bitrates were about 20 Mbps.

That's what I meant. He actually says 30Mbps for Spiderman. If you watch at around 21:15 you can see the HUD showing an average video bitrate of 27Mbps.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

That's what I meant. He actually says 30Mbps for Spiderman. If you watch at around 21:15 you can see the HUD showing an average video bitrate of 27Mbps.

I hear the 30 now; his accent got me on that one.

The reviewer does say that the Apple TV 4K came "quite close" to the 4K UHD disc (about the 24 minute mark), but he does point out the lack of Dolby ATMOS. He mentions that the Apple TV 4K has a fixed video output and that it converts everything to 4K 60HZ and that it may cause some stutter on 24 fps movies (25:15 mark). At the 9:50 mark, he also points that the Apple TV 4K shows some noise and macro blocking during the dark scene being displayed at that time, but he also says that he does not think it will bother most viewers.

He comments that the 4K UHD disc looks sharper and crisper..."slightly" (22:15). He did say that the Dolby Vision "pop" was "basically equivalent" to that of the 4K disc. (23:00).

At 27:10, though, he does say that he was "pleasantly surprised" by the Apple TV 4K's performance while also pointing out that he tested only two Dolby Vision movies.

[Fiffy]

I wonder what happened with the Transformers movie though. Either there are significant differences in the encodings, or he had congestion on his network causing the adaptive streaming to switch to a lower bitrate. Around 15 Mbps is what I see when playing 1080p movies with HDR/DV (i.e. movies ported from MA that aren't eligible for the full 4K upgrade). If it was a better movie I would get it and test it, but I absolutely don't want any Transformers in my library.

Also, the audio bitrate of 384kbps is pathetic and misbalanced. At those kind of overall bitrates they could easily use 640kbps AC3 or even higher E-AC3. I wouldn't be surprised if they update the audio soon.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

If it was a better movie I would get it and test it, but I absolutely don't want any Transformers in my library.

The Transformer movies are just loud eye candy, but I have not been able to bring myself to buy the latest installment even though I want to support 3D movies.

The reviewer did mention that Apple TV 4K uses adaptive streaming. He also mentioned that his internet during these tests had a bandwidth of 35 Mbps (5:35 mark).

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The Transformer movies are just loud eye candy, but I have not been able to bring myself to buy the latest installment even though I want to support 3D movies.

The reviewer did mention that Apple TV 4K uses adaptive streaming. He also mentioned that his internet during these tests had a bandwidth of 35 Mbps (5:35 mark).

I can reccomend the latest Thor movie in 3D. It’s absolutely stunning. One of the best 3D films I have seen.
Also, vintage wise, House Of Wax is excellent. Incredible depth and several very good pop outs. Cracking film also.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I can reccomend the latest Thor movie in 3D. It’s absolutely stunning. One of the best 3D films I have seen.
Also, vintage wise, House Of Wax is excellent. Incredible depth and several very good pop outs. Cracking film also.

I plan to order Thor Ragnorak 3D from Amazon UK at the same time that Star Wars The Last Jedi 3D becomes available on April 9th.
I like to wait until I have a few items to order before placing an international order because they seem to survive the trip better than when I order a single one.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I plan to order Thor Ragnorak 3D from Amazon UK at the same time that Star Wars The Last Jedi 3D becomes available on April 9th.
I like to wait until I have a few items to order before placing an international order because they seem to survive the trip better than when I order a single one.

Yeah, makes sense. Hope you enjoy them. I did for sure.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I plan to order Thor Ragnorak 3D from Amazon UK at the same time that Star Wars The Last Jedi 3D becomes available on April 9th.
I like to wait until I have a few items to order before placing an international order because they seem to survive the trip better than when I order a single one.

I really want to buy thor Ragnarok 3d and last jedi 3d but I also want the digital copy which makes this whole process tricky. If somebody gave me the digital copy I would be sorely tempted to order them now but since I have to do these weird multi orders to get a definitive edition I'll just wait till I can buy them on a major sale.

Personally I would have payed 35 for thor ragnarok 3d+bd+digital but i'll wait to import it till I can get it for around 10 to 15 and till I can get the digital copy for free to a profit after reselling the movie.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah, makes sense. Hope you enjoy them. I did for sure.

House Of Wax 3D must be oop as it is $50-$75; I don't know if I want it that badly.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Vilya

House Of Wax 3D must be oop as it is $50-$75; I don't know if I want it that badly.

that movie is 9.99 at best buy since last week.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by veritas

I really want to buy thor Ragnarok 3d and last jedi 3d but I also want the digital copy which makes this whole process tricky. If somebody gave me the digital copy I would be sorely tempted to order them now but since I have to do these weird multi orders to get a definitive edition I'll just wait till I can buy them on a major sale.

Personally I would have payed 35 for thor ragnarok 3d+bd+digital but i'll wait to import it till I can get it for around 10 to 15 and till I can get the digital copy for free to a profit after reselling the movie.

Having to import so many of our 3D titles has made life difficult for fans of the format, especially if you want a code, too. 3D is only on disc, so you're stuck with importing them or going without.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

House Of Wax 3D must be oop as it is $50-$75; I don't know if I want it that badly.

Got it st launch as it’s one of the most highly regarded 3D films out there.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by veritas

that movie is 9.99 at best buy since last week.

That's great to know; thank you! It must just be out of stock on Amazon then. I have a $5 Best Buy Reward certificate that I need to use, so it all works out nicely.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Also, the audio bitrate of 384kbps is pathetic and misbalanced. At those kind of overall bitrates they could easily use 640kbps AC3 or even higher E-AC3. I wouldn't be surprised if they update the audio soon.

Yes I wonder why they are still using 384k DD 5.1 when 640 is marginally more bitrate but noticeably better quality. Some streaming providers do use DD+, but it seems the real benefit here is to offer 7.1 channels. And I cannot remember where I read it, but years ago the experts went to Dolby's labs and tested Dolby Digital, DD+ and Dolby TrueHD and came to the conclusion that 640k DD 5.1 was good enough, that there was not a noticeable difference in going beyond that.

[Dustin44]

Originally Posted by Vilya

That's great to know; thank you! It must just be out of stock on Amazon then. I have a $5 Best Buy Reward certificate that I need to use, so it all works out nicely.

There was a shipper with House of Wax 3D and other 3D titles at Best Buy a couple of weeks ago:



Link to thread taking about it:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...=303467&page=6

Hopefully the shipper is still up, but it's possible it is gone from stores by now.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Vilya

He mentions that the Apple TV 4K has a fixed video output and that it converts everything to 4K 60HZ and that it may cause some stutter on 24 fps movies (25:15 mark).

That is outdated. A while ago they added automatic framerate switching via a firmware update.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Nobody is comparing Blu-ray to 4K Streaming, it's simply Bitrate with the new Codec and adaptive Streaming all you need is Bandwidth 40Mbps or greater which is the max for a Blu-ray Player. So I know Sony Ultra is Streaming their HD with the higher Bitrates making their 1080P Disc Quality. MA and Vudu are also raising their Bitrates, I don't know about iTunes they are always lagging behind. This is just Streaming, Downloads are still highly compressed.

Originally Posted by Vilya

According to a June 28, 2017 article from Rtings.com, Sony Ultra streams at an average bitrate of just 16 Mbps. The chart in this article compares the bitrates of 4K UHD discs to many of the streaming services. Sony Ultra is the same as most of the others: 16 Mbps. Not better than other streaming sources, nor worse, and definitely not up to a blu-ray disc and nowhere near that of a 4K UHD disc. Even a H.265 codec is not going to elevate a 16 Mbps bitrate enough to equal, yet alone surpass, even just blu-ray disc quality. The article does not say what codecs are used by the different streaming sources. It also says nothing about "adaptive" streaming that magically multiplies Sony Ultra's bitrate into the stratosphere.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/wher...es-and-content

Unless you can provide a newer source of information than this article, it looks like you are very wrong and on multiple counts. I could not find anything on the AVS forums to support any of your claims, either, in a brief search on the subject. I did find a post that says Sony Ultra offers 88, count 'em, 88 titles. That's kinda lame, too.

The article also points out that Sony Ultra "movies are available for purchase through the service for around $30." Some bargain there!
And: "Currently, only Sony titles are available." and it only works with: "Sony's Ultra service is a new 4k and HDR streaming option exclusive to its 4k UHD Android TVs."

Sony Ultra does not sound appealing at all unless a lot has changed since this article was published. Please provide supporting citations if you care to refute any or all of what this article has to say. No folksy anecdotes, just some verifiable facts, please.

Thanks, you provided some good information, and you backed up my claims. I told you guys years ago that Bandwidth would provide the Resolution to match Discs. Your information is almost a year old, and when I talked to Sony Support they said the Bitrate averages were 25Mbps, and with the software upgrades and Adaptive Streaming the Bitrates would go up according to your Bandwidth. It just makes sense that with new Codec and Adaptive Streaming the Bitrate would match Disc Quality. The lady I talked to at Sony said Disc sales are down, and Streaming was taking over and they were working on providing UHD Disc Quality.