When Will DVD Die?

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by phantompwr

I'm sure when DVD first came out nobody ever considered that people could, or would want to, load them onto hard drives. I love having my DVDs loaded onto the server, and if I had more money I might have one of the many systems that you can buy specifically for this, which are simple to use, do not involve an HTPC, and are not illegal.

I'd say that's a matter of opinion... but I'd be wrong.

It is still illegal in the U.S. is it not?

My system using XBMC is much cheaper and I love being able to put all the cases away, and sort the movies in a much easier way. I can understand that some people like having their movie cases out on display, or maybe like the tangiblity, but if you like having the physical medium that's fine, it doesn't mean that there aren't people out there that would want to browse their movies on the TV, or that they are wrong for wanting that.

They're not wrong.

Just horribly horribly misguided.

Because some of them believe that what THEY want is what the majority of the home theater enthusiasts on the planet want.

And when you compare Blu-Ray sales with sales of digital movies, you see how incorrect that assumption really is.

Digital movie rentals have been around for quite some time. It hasn't completely killed local store video rentals like many seem to think that it will {because it's been around for FAR longer than they think it has}

It's all part of Hollywood's plan, get them on every level, the folks who go to theaters, the folks that go to video rental stores, and then a month later the folks who like to sit at home on their duffs and rent stuff from the comfort of their own homes {because they fear the sun}.

Logan

[OrlandoEastwood]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

and then a month later the folks who like to sit at home on their duffs and rent stuff from the comfort of their own homes {because they fear the sun}.

My folks got the Video On Demand back in 2006 and I hated it. I mean I HATED IT! The movies were all in Full Screen. Sorry, I'd rather go to the video store and rent the movie in Widescreen for $3.50 or $3 depending on where I went than pay $4 to watch it in Full Screen.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

They're not wrong.

Just horribly horribly misguided.

Because some of them believe that what THEY want is what the majority of the home theater enthusiasts on the planet want.

And when you compare Blu-Ray sales with sales of digital movies, you see how incorrect that assumption really is.

Digital movie rentals have been around for quite some time. It hasn't completely killed local store video rentals like many seem to think that it will {because it's been around for FAR longer than they think it has}

It's all part of Hollywood's plan, get them on every level, the folks who go to theaters, the folks that go to video rental stores, and then a month later the folks who like to sit at home on their duffs and rent stuff from the comfort of their own homes {because they fear the sun}.

Logan

Just because you are not interested in it... doesn't make anyone who is "misguided." Digital downloads have been around a long time... but they have yet to match the quality of what one can get on physical media. Allowing one to make a full quality copy... like what is done currently with lesser quality digital copies is the perfect compromise. I fail to see how someone can stand so strongly against CHOICE just because it is a choice that they personally are not interested in.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by phantompwr

but I know the company I work with, Kaleidescape, is just about ready to implement Blu-ray ripping when it does..

I would love a Kaleidescape multi-room system, but for the price, I'll continue with the inconvenience of searching through my discs and keeping DVD players in multiple rooms.......

They make a great system though.

[phantompwr]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

Just because you are not interested in it... doesn't make anyone who is "misguided." Digital downloads have been around a long time... but they have yet to match the quality of what one can get on physical media. Allowing one to make a full quality copy... like what is done currently with lesser quality digital copies is the perfect compromise. I fail to see how someone can stand so strongly against CHOICE just because it is a choice that they personally are not interested in.

This is exactly the point I am trying to make. So many people on here seem afraid of downloads (even though that wasn't exactly what I was talking about). What I am in favor of is high quality movies. I really don't care how I get them. Personally, I don't think that Blu-ray has anything to fear right now. As long as there is a market for physical media, they will continue to make them.
I have seen so many people on here who seem so afraid. I think some of you have identified yourself with Blu-ray so strongly that you take any threat to Blu-ray as an attack on yourself. You need to step back, take a deep breath, and just relax!

[phantompwr]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I would love a Kaleidescape multi-room system, but for the price, I'll continue with the inconvenience of searching through my discs and keeping DVD players in multiple rooms.......

They make a great system though.

I think Netflix streaming et. al. have hurt Kaleidescape, and others like them, more than DVD and certainly Blu-ray sales. I feel bad, Kaleidescape really is just so cool. I can't afford it either of course, but XBMC is almost as good, about 10x harder to use, but about 20x cheaper.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by phantompwr

I'm sure when DVD first came out nobody ever considered that people could, or would want to, load them onto hard drives. I love having my DVDs loaded onto the server, and if I had more money I might have one of the many systems that you can buy specifically for this, which are simple to use, do not involve an HTPC, and are not illegal. The biggest thing holding Blu-ray servers back now is that fact that it isn't legal yet to make a copy of a blu-ray disc, but I know the company I work with, Kaleidescape, is just about ready to implement Blu-ray ripping when it does.
My system using XBMC is much cheaper and I love being able to put all the cases away, and sort the movies in a much easier way. I can understand that some people like having their movie cases out on display, or maybe like the tangibility, but if you like having the physical medium that's fine, it doesn't mean that there aren't people out there that would want to browse their movies on the TV, or that they are wrong for wanting that.

except for the Kaleidescape comment (sued and lost), I agree with you 100%. That is the issue with comments like the one made by robinandtami for around the last 10 years you could have built a media server at home. That capability has been around a long time for tose interested. Why don't most people already have servers? media servers are extremely rare because most people don't want a PC in their living room, they want to sit down and watch a movie, not spend hours moving it from their disk to a server, then categorising it then.... in order to sit down and watch it. Most people see it as a cost (need PC, need a lot of HDD space) with no benefit (takes no effort to stick in the disk)

[phantompwr]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

except for the Kaleidescape comment (sued and lost), I agree with you 100%. That is the issue with comments like the one made by robinandtami for around the last 10 years you could have built a media server at home. That capability has been around a long time for tose interested. Why don't most people already have servers? media servers are extremely rare because most people don't want a PC in their living room, they want to sit down and watch a movie, not spend hours moving it from their disk to a server, then categorising it then.... in order to sit down and watch it. Most people see it as a cost (need PC, need a lot of HDD space) with no benefit (takes no effort to stick in the disk)

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/09...-copying-cepro
I suppose they are appealing, so who knows what will happen. I see that for those of us without the licensed player, it is technically illegal, which is unfortunate, but still I own the movies.
I would just also like to point out that the software I have automatically looks up the dvd cover art, producer, director, actors, genre, blurb, and even a trailer if you want, and you can sort movies by these categories, so once I load up the movie, that's it. There is no categorizing it, that's a big part of why I like having them on a server.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

Just because you are not interested in it... doesn't make anyone who is "misguided."

he did not say people using it are misguided, he said people that think mostpeople are interested are misguided.

Digital downloads have been around a long time... but they have yet to match the quality of what one can get on physical media. Allowing one to make a full quality copy... like what is done currently with lesser quality digital copies is the perfect compromise. I fail to see how someone can stand so strongly against CHOICE just because it is a choice that they personally are not interested in.

do you even know what your point is? sometimes you say it should be a choice and others it is the future (i.e. no choice), sometimes you talk about media servers and being able to move data from a BD/DVD and others that it is DL. But I guess it is normal, when one wants to BS and convince people of something that is wrong, moving the posts tends to make everything more complex.

[Anthony P]

I suppose they are appealing, so who knows what will happen.

I know they are appealing, but it has been deemed illegal by the courts and honestly I can't see what they can present in the appeal that would change the previous verdict. Appeals are easy to get, but hard to wins unless there are circumstances that would invalidate the verdict of the first one. Let's face it, the second they lose they are out of business, so what do they have to lose by dragging it on?

[Jellybeans]

I hope Blu-Ray becomes the only standard very soon!

[supersix4]

It really doesn't do us any good to have this argument now because peoples bandwidths are no where near the speeds needed to DL HQ PQ/AQ. Not to mention the ISP's are already trying to limit people hogging Bandwidth and their systems are becoming more and more stressed. No way they want a movie like the Dark Knight with millions and millions of people trying to DL it at the exact moment it comes out.

As for me personally I'm with in hand buying all the way until I see a full proof system for how you'd get your money/movies back if you had a virus/ system crash, and even then the prices/quality would have tp be AMAZING for me to make the switch.

Even at 30/20 (soon to be 50/20 when we call fios to make the switch) I wouldn't say that'd be enough to get a movie of blu-ray quality in enough time for me to justify even a $1-10 price cut.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

he did not say people using it are misguided, he said people that think mostpeople are interested are misguided.



do you even know what your point is? sometimes you say it should be a choice and others it is the future (i.e. no choice), sometimes you talk about media servers and being able to move data from a BD/DVD and others that it is DL. But I guess it is normal, when one wants to BS and convince people of something that is wrong, moving the posts tends to make everything more complex.

Actually I think both times will come. When it first arrives.... of course it will be a choice. Eventually though.... some type of media server will hold major market share.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I know they are appealing, but it has been deemed illegal by the courts and honestly I can't see what they can present in the appeal that would change the previous verdict. Appeals are easy to get, but hard to wins unless there are circumstances that would invalidate the verdict of the first one. Let's face it, the second they lose they are out of business, so what do they have to lose by dragging it on?

It's only illegal if you circumvent the copyright protections to make your own copy. Many studios already give us lesser quality digital copies... the next step is full quality digital copies..... if they are smart and want to retain market share as long as possible when a viable high quality, pure digital format comes down the pipe.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

It's only illegal if you circumvent the copyright protections to make your own copy. Many studios already give us lesser quality digital copies... the next step is full quality digital copies..... if they are smart and want to retain market share as long as possible when a viable high quality, pure digital format comes down the pipe.

you like talking when you have no idea on the subject. No one is talking digital copies here. K as brought up by phantompwr(and other such manufacturers) where found to have illegal devices/systems by the courts and told they have to stop making and offering their product. He said the product was legal several posts earlier, but since the courts found them guilty, it was a dumb comment to make. His reply to me pointing it out was that it did not matter if they where found guilty sand their product illegal since they are appealing the verdict. I just pointed out that they have no other choice. If the verdict does not get overturned they will be out of business, their only product has been deemed illegal.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

Just because you are not interested in it... doesn't make anyone who is "misguided."

Did you check the sales of Blu-Ray vs Digital Downloads {purchases} to prove me wrong?

Also: As AnthonyP pointed out, I didn't say because I'm not interested in it that people who are are misguided.

What I said was, that anyone who thinks that digital downloads will become the next standard are misguided.

Slight, but important difference.

Digital downloads have been around a long time... but they have yet to match the quality of what one can get on physical media.

There's a good reason for that.

Allowing one to make a full quality copy... like what is done currently with lesser quality digital copies is the perfect compromise. I fail to see how someone can stand so strongly against CHOICE just because it is a choice that they personally are not interested in.

The only way that studios would allow a managed copy solution like you are suggesting, is if it's delivered through Blu-Ray.

Which means that it'll always be tied to physical media.

Also:

I'm not against choice, per se. I'm against silly choice. Which is why I was against splitting the market in the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray battle. They really should have picked a single standard BEFORE they hit the market.

If you have a box like you describe, it would be extremely limited. Putting aside any possible hard drive issues, the amount it would cost to back up a group of 100 full 1080p movies {in hard drive space alone} would be astronomical. Not to mention the fact that it would just be the movies themselves and not the special features {which you would need the disk for anyway} Let's say that each movie takes up 12 gigs of Hard drive space, if it's 100 movies then you'd have to worry about roughly a TB of hard drive space, while those drives have come down in price, if you have one attached to a Blu-Ray player it, the HDMI, the internet connectivity etc. etc. etc. it gets pricey. Then there's making sure that dirty downloaders can't a} hack the system, and b} download the copy into more than one system, which will run them back in R&D massively.

Right now people are belly aching that $200 is too much to buy into Blu-Ray.

The system you're describing would run back people well over that $200 threshold.

Logan

[Coqui2k]

27 Oct 09

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Did you check the sales of Blu-Ray vs Digital Downloads {purchases} to prove me wrong?


Right now people are belly aching that $200 is too much to buy into Blu-Ray.

The system you're describing would run back people well over that $200 threshold.

Logan

There's nothing to prove wrong. We're both merely speculating and stating opinions, and only the future will tell which of us is closer to correct. SOME people complain about BD prices... SOME people bought $1200 players the moment they were released... and play them on 50K HT's. The HT market has never been one to shy away from something just because initial models are expensive..... in fact that is almost always the case. You keep basing your assumptions on the lowest common denominator.

Five years ago you couldn't download a movie (legally) or stream a movie at all. Now look at all the avenues of choice.... two game consoles that have digital downloads... one game console with streaming... standalone boxes dedicated to streaming... even BD players that offer streaming as an additional service. Do you really think this is a dead end avenue? Or something that will only improve with time?

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

Five years ago you couldn't download a movie (legally) or stream a movie at all. Now look at all the avenues of choice.... two game consoles that have digital downloads... one game console with streaming... standalone boxes dedicated to streaming... even BD players that offer streaming as an additional service. Do you really think this is a dead end avenue? Or something that will only improve with time?

Agreed, and I think HDD space will come down as-well making that scenario invalid. My issue is, and it isn't something that can be fixed in 3-6 years is our countries network infrastructure. A majority of people still don't have DSL, and another still don't have basic cable internet (3-9mbps). As media grows and they want to have more and more GB's dedicated to video, audio, exc. there's no way in even 5 years they'd move between 45-70% of the country(and thats just the US alone) up to even decent speed to download a current Blu-ray in a satisfactory time frame. Just look what happened with Iron man so many people tried to do the BD LIVE it crashed the server lol. I'd be shocked if in 7 years we were close to FULL digital downloads.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by supersix4

Agreed, and I think HDD space will come down as-well making that scenario invalid. My issue is, and it isn't something that can be fixed in 3-6 years is our countries network infrastructure. A majority of people still don't have DSL, and another still don't have basic cable internet (3-9mbps). As media grows and they want to have more and more GB's dedicated to video, audio, exc. there's no way in even 5 years they'd move between 45-70% of the country(and thats just the US alone) up to even decent speed to download a current Blu-ray in a satisfactory time frame. Just look what happened with Iron man so many people tried to do the BD LIVE it crashed the server lol. I'd be shocked if in 7 years we were close to FULL digital downloads.

All very true which is why my ideal system would be for Blu-Ray to allow full quality digital rips from the disc for those who choose to. The ripping could be done from the BD player to the home network and the DRM could be tied to the player.