White Christmas - Diamond Edition

[KrugStillo]

Originally Posted by mchalebk

People have been claiming that White Christmas is a remake of Holiday Inn for a long time. I would say it's more accurate to say that White Christmas was inspired by Holiday Inn. Certainly they have some similarities:

1. Both have music by Irving Berlin.
2. Both star Bing Crosby.
3. Both feature an inn in New England.
4. Both feature the song White Christmas.

However, the plots have nothing in common. The actual stories are not even similar. This is not a remake.

And here's the big difference in my book: White Christmas is a feel good, warm and fuzzy holiday movie, while Holiday Inn is not. In White Christmas, the only tensions that arise are from misunderstandings. In Holiday Inn, there are deliberate attempts to betray, mislead, connive and downright stab their "friends" in the back. Holiday Inn has some great song and dance routines and an interesting plot, but it is not a feel good Christmas movie.

One last thing. The black face number in Holiday Inn is just plain uncomfortable to watch. I understand that it's a product of its time, but that doesn't change the fact.

On to the Blu-ray of White Christmas...

I'll watch the DVD this holiday season and see if it annoys me enough to feel that I need to upgrade. If I have a movie on DVD already, I pretty much have to find something that annoys me before I consider upgrading.

Thanks for the Holiday Inn info I always wondered what the difference was. If it helps any this BD is a huge upgrade in image quality from the previous DVD. Gone is the hazy slighly blurry image and the new one has a crisp sharp image that is very clean and filmlike. There is only one section in the beginning with dissolves that represents the way the film used to look (still better but in general). They must have not had the elements to recreate that section, it's the only one though that loses it's crispness a bit. The bonus documentaries are good too. They're short but informative.

[MarkWM]

Originally Posted by bookcase

Does it come with a slipcover?

The DVD has a much cooler Slip than the BD.

You can shake it and watch it 'snow'.

[neo1973]

Originally Posted by MarkWM

I'll grab this for the holidays. I wonder when "Holiday Inn" will be released?

Too soon if they keep the black-face minstrel show in it. I remember watching it as a kid, then rewatched a few years back and was appalled at that bit. I know, some will say I'm too pc, carry too much white guilt, but that bit just ruins the movie for me, sorry.

[WarrenGrove]

Originally Posted by neo1973

Too soon if they keep the black-face minstrel show in it. I remember watching it as a kid, then rewatched a few years back and was appalled at that bit. I know, some will say I'm too pc, carry too much white guilt, but that bit just ruins the movie for me, sorry.

The number remains in the Holiday Inn videos released these days.

[ndiamone]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

The original was not mono, but actually released in 4-track mag stereo
as were all the Paramount VistaVision films except for The Searchers.
But I bet the original stereo tracks are lost and the mono is being pulled from an optical print.

``4-track Mag Stereo'' in the case of White Christmas is somewhat of a misnomer. Although the actual roadshow and general release prints did in fact have four tracks of mag affixed to them, only the original music recording session stems were multitrack as they were for most films of the period. The actual sound that issued forth from those 4-track mag presentations of the roadshow as well as the general release prints however was actually just a decoded Perspecta Sound, the same as in Silk Stockings.

This is a process where a single monaural soundtrack has subsonic or supersonic cue tones impregnated within it so that a built-in comparator can `steer' the monaural track to any one of three left, center or right speakers behind the screen. For the 4-track mag releases, all they did was retrieve the cue tones from the mono mix, run them through the comparator and record the sonically panned-and-scanned result onto their 4-track master they used to record the mag on the individual prints.

Therefore, unlike for a lot of 4-track mag prints of the period, unfortunately for White Christmas or Silk Stockings or any other Perspecta Stereophonic production, they couldn't lift the stereo tracks from the few surviving magnetic-sound roadshow prints and restore that way because all you'd get from that is a panned-and-scanned mono soundtrack.

After the original multitrack music recording session stems were destroyed in a vault fire in the 60's, several intact prints of the 4-track mag roadshow version were subsequently discovered, assembled and used for the home-video releases, however the sound had been blended back to mono.

For the LaserDisc reissue of the film, an isolated music-only monaural magnetic master was unearthed along with the final optical composite of dialogue, music and effects. These were then synchronized so that even though the original mono optical sound composite was not of high fidelity, the additional mixing-in of the high-fidelity mono magnetic music master allowed for a higher-fidelity presentation overall than just using the straight mono DM&E optical composite.

Similar to the 50th Anniversary Wizard of Oz, the film is presented on LaserDisc with the original optical composite mixed in with the high-fidelity magnetic mono music master on the left channel, and the isolated mono music track is presented by itself on the right channel (or everything on the digital and music only on the analog depending on which country the disc was pressed).

For the Blu-Ray release, all they did was extract the high-fidelity monaural music-only master from the vaults, synthesize a multi-channel sound experience therefrom utilizing the million-dollar sonic tools available at restoration houses like Chace Productions, digitally remove hiss, hum and crackle, resynchronize it once again with the optical composite and mix back in so that the original mono optical composite plays through the center channel and the synthesized-surround music-only track plays through all the surrounds.

Hope that clears it up.

But if you get a chance, and they are doing it in your area, absolutely go....and drag whoever you can catch...
to go see it on the Big Screen projected from real celluloid at a repertory/restoration theatre. It's totally worth it.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

White Christmas Blu-ray

White Christmas Blu-ray Review


Is anyone else looking forward to the release of this holiday classic? Our family has made a tradition of watching it every year; lately we have been inviting friends over and having "White Christmas" parties. I hope it gets a worthy transfer!

I grew up watching this every year with my family. My mom was a big BC fan.

[Arkadin]

ndiamone--thanks for that amazing info!
you are quite the knowledgeable one for sure.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by radagast

I grew up watching this every year with my family. My mom was a big BC fan.

We had our annual "White Christmas" party recently, and I was impressed with the excellent restoration presented on BD. There were many comments regarding the picture quality. I am going to play it again this weekend for another one of our friends.

[JamesN]

Originally Posted by KrugStillo

...Gone is the hazy slighly blurry image and the new one has a crisp sharp image that is very clean and filmlike. There is only one section in the beginning with dissolves that represents the way the film used to look (still better but in general). They must have not had the elements to recreate that section, it's the only one though that loses it's crispness a bit...

Are you referring to the scene where Bob visits Phil in the Army hospital? That scene was really soft...almost DVD quality.

I thought I saw a few other scenes/shots here and there where the sharpness discernibly denigrated, then suddenly popped back into high def. Still, as you say, orders of magnitude above any previous releases.

[ndiamone]

Originally Posted by JamesN

Are you referring to the scene where Bob visits Phil in the Army hospital?
That scene was really soft...almost DVD quality.

I saw a few other scenes/shots here and there where the sharpness
discernibly denigrated, then suddenly popped back into high def.
Still, as you say, orders of magnitude above any previous releases.

Well as all you raging vintage cinephiles know, dissolves in film in those days had to be created optically from the original master reels broken up into two parts, A and B. So when the negatives come out of the camera and get developed, that first development goes straightaway to make the interpositive or IP that goes to make both the black and white workprints used for timing and editing and effect practices (like dissolves so they can see how they will look on film) as well as the internegatives or IN's from which effects shots get printed.

So it's no surprise then that if the original camera negatives could not be found for the section containing the optical effect, that the IP, IN or even a release show print three generations down had to be used for the transitions and or other optical effects.

Look at The Wizard of Oz and its' registration problems, especially in the scene where we find the Tin Man frozen in place. With it's re-created YCM seps (yellow-cyan-magenta black and white color band separation films used to re-assemble a color film after the original color negatives have faded to the point of unusability) the three reconstructed color strips never quite match due to different shrinkage amounts of the original elements.

Or look at My Fair Lady or Lawrence of Arabia or the 1954 A Star is Born with Judy Garland. Look at and listen to any vintage film in High Definition real close. You'll find all kinds of artifacting in the video or audio because restorationists had to lift pieces from show prints or outtake reels or the soundtrack master the LP was made from or off a tired old acetate reference playback disc the artist used to practice their lip synching for shooting or whatever else was left and didn't get thrown in the dumpster after it was used to make the film.

Studios in Hollywood's Golden Era didn't know in 50 years there was going to be all this money being able to be made off Blu-Ray and High Definition from home-cinephiles with more money than taste (WINK) who wanted everything in pristine sound and perfect video as if it was shot yesterday instead of 50 years ago. So they threw out a lot of things.

I mean if you were some itty-bitty junior vault technician and your cubicle warrior bean counter boss at the studio was yelling at YOU to clean out storage space in Hollywood's Golden Age and YOUR crystal ball was busted so YOU couldn't know about Blu-Ray in 50 years, you'd do what you were told too if you wanted to keep your vault job and move up the food chain.

Which is oftentimes why junior editors and production assistants and other people low on the totem pole take things home destined for the dumpster and report it as ``destroyed'' pay the cold storage on it out of their own pocket for 50 years and then when they declare bankruptcy or die, here's all these perfect-condition original production elements discovered in a pristine state just in time to make a studio a lot of money for Blu-Ray.

Whereupon the ``hoarder'' who ``stole'' the materials out of the dumpster 50 years ago is now honored with a Special Academy Award for Film Preservation, honored on Turner Classic Movies, and gets their portrait hung up in the American Film Institute, none of which existed at the time.

So, mebbe yinz can come daaaahn orf yer perfectionistic high horses and enjoy the fact that MOST of it was able to be sourced from pristine elements, and the rest was able to be cleaned up after weeks and weeks in the restoration computer and be glad you have what you have the way you have it.

[benbess]

I saw White Christmas about 20 years ago on vhs, and although I liked it, somehow it didn't quite come through in that pale shadow of VistaVision.

But this blu-ray is great! It really just pulls you right into the movie. Plus now I'm in my 40s, and I guess what they say about getting more sentimental as you get older is true, because this one is making me laugh as well as choke up a few times too.

I should have bought this months ago. But I'm enjoying it now a lot with my 9 year old daughter. And she's laughing too.

What amazing costumes by the great Edith Head!

If anyone is on the fence on this one--buy it.

Great pq and aq for a film of this era.

[disneyfreak]

Does anyone know of a Combo pack version of this film? I want to get it on blu-ray but won't get it unless it comes with the DVD.

[hidef al]

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

Does anyone know of a Combo pack version of this film? I want to get it on blu-ray but won't get it unless it comes with the DVD.

None that I know of. I don't think Paramount will re-release it as a BD+DVD Combo Pack any time soon.

You can buy the blu-ray version and DVD version and make our own combo pack

[wudawg]

I have a question, does anyone know if there is more than one version of White Christmas on blu ray? I ask because the copy I received from Amazon does not say "Anniversary Edition" anywhere on the cover as depicted in a picture above in another post. I also ask because my copy of this movie still has a lot of film dirt running throughout especially big pieces on people's faces. I also noticed that there is still some film flicker in some spots. The colors look good though. So that's why I'm wondering if I may have gotten a different version or something. I would appreciate it if someone can fill me in. Thanks.

[BluPat]

This is now $12.99 on Amazon and at Best Buy online. I have been wanting this because I have never seen it and I love classic films.

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by BluPat

This is now $12.99 on Amazon and at Best Buy online. I have been wanting this because I have never seen it and I love classic films.

I own 560 Blu-rays and WHITE CHRISTMAS is my reference disc. Even if it's the middle of August, if people want to know about Blu-ray I will put WHITE CHRISTMAS in my player and tell them , "THIS is Blu-ray".

[baheidstu]

Picked this up the other day. I've never seen it before, but if the reviews and screencaps are anything to go by, it'll look great. I am a fan of Vera-Ellen having seen On the Town countless times, so I'm hoping she's just as adorable in this one.

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Picked this up the other day. I've never seen it before, but if the reviews and screencaps are anything to go by, it'll look great. I am a fan of Vera-Ellen having seen On the Town countless times, so I'm hoping she's just as adorable in this one.

You should be absolutely delighted.

Vera Ellen figures VERY prominently in this movie with several major production numbers.

[phil4853]

Anyone noticed that there's quite a lot of telecine wobble especially during the early part of the film? Is it my just my copy? Anyone else noticed this?

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

You should be absolutely delighted.

Vera Ellen figures VERY prominently in this movie with several major production numbers.

She was great in it, so was Rosemary Clooney. Although I had heard some of her songs from back in the day, I had only ever known Clooney as a heavy-set older lady, so to see her in her youth was eye-opening. She was very alluring back in the day and in terms of the characters, she was the stand-out of the film for me. Vera-Ellen was the star of the musical numbers though, naturally as she was primarily a dancer. I found Crosby and Kaye to be kind of meh, I've never been big fans of either of them (as an actor for Crosby anyway, he was always a great crooner).