The Official Formula One Thread

[Trace17]

Originally Posted by Shin-Ra

It's just they're running so late already with the 2 hour rain suspension.

Good thing they don't live here - they didn't do the forum the one time it was a time inconvenience for them, yet this is the one time of the entire year the race is not an inconvenience for everyone on the NA continent. There wasn't anything to talk about anyway.

I'm still waiting to see what the stewards say. I have a feeling it might just be a slap on the wrist, I don't think we'll have another '08 Spa where Hamilton won but was penalized post-race and Massa "inherited" the win.

[Hatter]

Schumacher is still the rainmaster after all these years. But once it dried up the cars were no longer neutralized and his Mercedes turned back into a second tier car.

Two great Montreal races in a row. Ecclestone, don't you ever pull the race from the calendar again. Rain or shine, it's one of the best tracks and always provides great racing.

[Trace17]

I'm hearing no action will be taken against Button. Confirmed winner!

[Shin-Ra]

Originally Posted by Trace17

I'm hearing no action will be taken against Button. Confirmed winner!

The race result stands. Stewards take no further action.

https://twitter.com/#!/LeeMcKenzieF1...48097627095040



I want a Jenson Button-only replay of all his overtakes!

If only Monaco ended under normal conditions two weeks ago, could have had a similar result.

[Trace17]

Originally Posted by Shin-Ra

https://twitter.com/#!/LeeMcKenzieF1...48097627095040



I want a Jenson Button-only replay of all his overtakes!

If only Monaco ended under normal conditions two weeks ago, could have had a similar result.

I know, definitely an "if only, if only" situation with Monaco. I want a Button replay with everything, accidents, drive-through, 5 pit stops, etc. Insane race for him.

Btw, you can see reasoning for the stewards' decisions here:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/06/1...lonso-crashes/

Karthikeyan got a penalty too, demoted to 17th from 14th.

[Trace17]

[dobyblue]

That was the most fun I've ever had at a Grand Prix, what a race! So sunny on Friday, so rainy on Sunday, I mean...it was TORRENTIAL!

The crowd at the hairpin went nuts when Schumi got past Mas/Kob and on his passes on Webber, all done at the hairpin. He was clearly the rainmeister again setting the fastest laps on intermediates, what a shame he didn't stay out on wets the first time around.

Button a simply great performance, even without the slip I think he had Vettel with DRS on the last lap. Vettel wasted no time at the hairpin on the victory lap, not a single wave to the crowd that stuck it out for a 2.5 hour delay in the pissing rain. Everyone else took their time around the hairpin waving and saying thanks.

We stayed in our front row spots, I had just a t-shirt and shorts on, got pretty soaked through in my shoes but a couple Heinekens helped.

That was my 10th Grand Prix du Canada, here's to at least 10 more.

[Trace17]

So there was a race this week. That kid won and a couple people overtook. Vasnoozia.

In more interesting news, Ricciardo replacing Karth at Silverstone, and rumor is likely for the rest of the season.

http://en.espnf1.com/hrtf1/motorspor...tml?CMP=chrome

[Trace17]

Williams using Renault engines 2012 onward. I would love to see them come back into contention for at least podiums. It's a shame to see them so far back.

And that makes 8 cars now I believe on Renault engines..

http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motors...ory/53261.html

[Mavrick]

This is a re post, but this time it's going in the right thread thanks for pointing it out Trace

In Formula 1 related news.

The FIA, motorsport’s governing body, has confirmed that Formula One racing will move to new engine regulations in 2014, with the current 2.4 litre V8s being replaced by more efficient 1.6 litre, turbocharged V6s.

The FIA had originally planned a switch to four-cylinder engines in 2013, but has approved the revised formula in light of concerns formalised last week by various interested parties.

“Following a fax vote by its members, the World Motor Sport Council has ratified the engine regulations recently drawn up in consultation with the main stakeholders in Formula One,” read an FIA statement.

“The new power plant will be a V6 1.6 turbo unit with energy recovery systems. This new formula will come into effect as from the start of the 2014 FIA Formula One World Championship season.”

The new energy recovery systems (ERS) will replace the current kinetic energy recovery systems (KERS) and are expected to be more powerful. Combined with the legalisation of turbocharging, they will ensure overall power outputs remain similar to current levels, despite an anticipated drop in the permitted rev limit.

Formula One’s last turbo era ended in 1988, a season dominated by the 1.5 litre V6 Honda-powered McLaren’s of Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna. The sport returned to naturally aspirated engines in 1989, with a new 3.5 litre formula.

[Trace17]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

This is a re post, but this time it's going in the right thread thanks for pointing it out Trace

In Formula 1 related news.

The Williams going back to Renault power almost hops on the retro turbo train. Maybe Tyrrell is next? Bernie has actually already threatened to sue if the new formula "flops". But of course, with all things Bernie, that should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm still mixed on the new engine formula, I wasn't really too pleased with a turbo'd four cylinder, so I guess this is improvement. Things could still change though, and if anything is going to get me less excited about F1, it's not going to be the engine formula.

Lot of news today, in addition to Williams, Spanish investment company Thesan Capital took control of HRT with the largest stake, Virgin struck a deal to use McLaren facilities and "knowledge" for further development, and Lotus & Virgin revealed updated liveries. Virgin is running a Cars 2 livery, just for this weekend, while Lotus is sporting Caterham, I assume permanently (for now).

Lotus
http://yfrog.com/h2fyiybj

Virgin
http://twitpic.com/5l4qr9

Oh and I read late last week that RBR should lose about half a second from the new regulations on engine mapping that will go into effect this weekend at Silverstone. But they also said they found the time to even out elsewhere. I'm hoping a McLaren wins, but honestly I'll be happy with anyone not named Vettel. He's all but wrapped up the title, I'm getting a little bored seeing him win over and over and over...

And speaking of the German kid, he'll be on Top Gear next week. They film on Wednesdays, perfect timing right before Silverstone. And in yesterday's episode, they aired the segment where they drove hot hatchbacks around Italy and ended doing timed laps around Monaco after a practice session. Pretty cool, and Bernie made an appearance in that.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by Trace17

The Williams going back to Renault power almost hops on the retro turbo train. Maybe Tyrrell is next? Bernie has actually already threatened to sue if the new formula "flops". But of course, with all things Bernie, that should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm still mixed on the new engine formula, I wasn't really too pleased with a turbo'd four cylinder, so I guess this is improvement. Things could still change though, and if anything is going to get me less excited about F1, it's not going to be the engine formula.

Lot of news today, in addition to Williams, Spanish investment company Thesan Capital took control of HRT with the largest stake, Virgin struck a deal to use McLaren facilities and "knowledge" for further development, and Lotus & Virgin revealed updated liveries. Virgin is running a Cars 2 livery, just for this weekend, while Lotus is sporting Caterham, I assume permanently (for now).

Lotus
http://yfrog.com/h2fyiybj

Virgin
http://twitpic.com/5l4qr9

Oh and I read late last week that RBR should lose about half a second from the new regulations on engine mapping that will go into effect this weekend at Silverstone. But they also said they found the time to even out elsewhere. I'm hoping a McLaren wins, but honestly I'll be happy with anyone not named Vettel. He's all but wrapped up the title, I'm getting a little bored seeing him win over and over and over...

And speaking of the German kid, he'll be on Top Gear next week. They film on Wednesdays, perfect timing right before Silverstone. And in yesterday's episode, they aired the segment where they drove hot hatchbacks around Italy and ended doing timed laps around Monaco after a practice session. Pretty cool, and Bernie made an appearance in that.

There were restrictions on qualifying engine maps at the euro GP weren't there?

The thing I don't like about Seb is that everyone thinks he's the second coming. I' would love to see them put Webber in Kinky Kylie and Seb in the number 2 car and see the results. I just think his success is more to do with a amazingly built and engineered car more than his skills as a driver. Which we saw back in Canada, were a bit sketchy when he came under preassure in the closing laps. I don't think he could handel a full race under those circumstances.

[Trace17]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

There were restrictions on qualifying engine maps at the euro GP weren't there?

The thing I don't like about Seb is that everyone thinks he's the second coming. I' would love to see them put Webber in Kinky Kylie and Seb in the number 2 car and see the results. I just think his success is more to do with a amazingly built and engineered car more than his skills as a driver. Which we saw back in Canada, were a bit sketchy when he came under preassure in the closing laps. I don't think he could handel a full race under those circumstances.

Well, the restrictions were just against the changing of the engine mapping between qually and the race start, as far as I know. Starting this week and onward, there is a complete ban on the concept of using exhaust gases to blow diffusers off-throttle. So, on paper, this could affect the upper teams and be a turning point in the title hunt. But if RBR find something else, or if their pace is that far out and still don't need it, then we may not see a big change. Silverstone should tell a lot though.

While I can't agree that Webber and Seb's cars are identical, I don't think Webber's car is crippled enough to cause the difference. I think it comes down to three things: 1)less confidence 2)poor management of tyres and 3)he's not as good at "hot-lapping", meaning poll times. His starts are also questionable half the time.

My problem with Seb is that I only see him as a "great driver", unlike Mark, Jenson, Lewis, etc. who are "great racers". Seb has a 75% poll-to-win ratio, meaning 3/4 of his wins came from poll. Nobody comes close to that, not even in the Senna/Prost/Mansell era. Many other drivers fought for the win, they didn't just start the race and drive for 90 minutes and win. Obviously you can find some random statistic to support whatever you want, but that's my biggest problem with him, is that I don't see him working through the field at all. I want to see him start P5-P7 maybe and take a win. Look at Mark a couple months ago. P18 or whatever to P3. Look at Button in Montreal. P349 to P1. That's driving imo.

[Mavrick]

A lot of controversy over the ban on blown diffusers. Mainly because RBR are pissed that the Mercedes engines can still use it. And I bet a Red Bull will still win regardless

[Mavrick]

An amazing finish to the end of the British GP Cant belive that Webber was told to keep away from vettel.

And how close was that finish between Hamilton and Massa. And so many cock ups in the pits today. Really great race all around.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

An amazing finish to the end of the British GP Cant belive that Webber was told to keep away from vettel.

And how close was that finish between Hamilton and Massa. And so many cock ups in the pits today. Really great race all around.

My anger lasted about five seconds because I know that Webber doesn't listen anyway and on worn tires what's three points more for Webber when it can cost the team up to 33? I find it comical everyone was so sure Webber would have passed him anyway.

Rivals just have a way of finding eachother don't they in the case of Hamilton and Massa. I sure hope they don't penalize Hamilton. That was great. If they do, it's probably because of that borderline Schmacher and Kobayashi stop and go penalties. Schumi had an opening and the back end of his car stepped out on the wet tarmac causing the collision while Kobayashi was released safely out of the pits but since he struggled to get his car into gear, he came out slowly and hit the other car.

But Hamilton's got a Brit in Mansell handling the investigations so he's got a better shot at escaping a penalty.

Nice recovery by Schumacher to finish in 9th though.

[Mavrick]

In my anticapaton of Qually tomorrow for the German GP I was reading through some of the press confrence transcripts, and was surprised to read that there are talks to incorperate fully closed cockpits! Now nothings confirmed at this point, its just being disgused but considering the cars will most likely go through a great re design come 2014 due to the engine changes, they may just incorporate this. Heres the full statement.

Q: (Ottavio Daviddi - Tuttosport) There is an FIA idea to close cars for safety reasons; I would like to know your opinion on this. I think all the aerodynamics would change if this was the case.

James Allison (Renault): This is something that’s been under discussion for a few Technical Working Group meetings now. We’re looking to try to look after the driver’s head, both from large scale things like tyres and also small scale things like the very unfortunate incident that Felipe suffered. There are a few suggestions around: one of them was looking into a fully enclosed canopy. Another one was looking into a visor-type where it’s still open above the driver’s head but he has a visor in front of him. And then there is a third type of proposal as well, where there isn’t a see-through windscreen at all but there is like a roll (bar) structure in front of the driver that would anyway deflect any big objects. All those things are still in fairly early discussion and you would have seen from what the FIA proposed, published recently, that they are showing some of the very early research that’s being done into the feasibility and practicality of this type of solution, but there are a lot of questions to answer before we can bring it to a practical solution. The closed canopy would have an aerodynamic effect - not a bad one, it would be easier to manage the airflow around a closed canopy than an open one - but there are all sorts of other things to discuss, like egress in the event of an accident, keeping the canopy clean, for example when it might get covered in oil and the like, so each of the proposed solutions has advantages and disadvantages and we need to do the basic research to find out what is the best way forward.
Norbert Haug (Mercedes): I think that if this makes sense for Formula One it needs to be applied to all formula: the junior drivers, everybody and I think we should carefully think that idea through.

I actually would like to see a fully closed cockpit, I think the drivers safety should be the most important asspect to the sport. And it reminds me of this little concept beauty

[Trace17]

Qualifying was FANTASTIC. It's a Webilton front row. My mouth is watering at the possibility of tomorrow's race. Ooooh just imagine Mark and Lewis flying off, maybe even Alonso passing Vettel...please don't disappoint me....

Absolutely no idea why Button was a second off pace though. Something seems wrong there.

Originally Posted by Hatter

My anger lasted about five seconds because I know that Webber doesn't listen anyway and on worn tires what's three points more for Webber when it can cost the team up to 33? I find it comical everyone was so sure Webber would have passed him anyway.

First off, I still haven't watched Silverstone yet. Was out of town and got back this week, trying to set aside a good 3 hours so I can. However, from what I saw in some footage today on Speed, it looked like Webber was extremely close one time, being next to Seb and then backing off. Was it a ninja edit? If not, then yeah, I see why people are pissed.

Also, you cannot say "what's three points more for Webber" when anything can happen. If Seb puts in a couple DNFs or something, and Mark gets in it, 3 pts is everything. Last year Seb won by 4. It's easy for us to think Seb has the season in the bag (well, he nearly does, doesn't he) but for a driver, they must remain optimistic and get as much as they can, every time.

I laughed at Horner's quote about it, something along the lines of "it was never not going to end in tears". Well how does he know that? Not much trust in your drivers there. It could have ended just fine, only backwards. But there is no way of knowing. It's just his excuse to cover his arse over the hypocrisy over his previous statements.

Originally Posted by Mavrick

In my anticapaton of Qually tomorrow for the German GP I was reading through some of the press confrence transcripts, and was surprised to read that there are talks to incorperate fully closed cockpits! Now nothings confirmed at this point, its just being disgused but considering the cars will most likely go through a great re design come 2014 due to the engine changes, they may just incorporate this. Heres the full statement.

I actually would like to see a fully closed cockpit, I think the drivers safety should be the most important asspect to the sport. And it reminds me of this little concept beauty

No, no, no, no and......

NO.

Driver safety IS the biggest aspect, and there are downsides to a canopy. In the case of a fire, it is much harder to exit the vehicle, or much slower. In the case of an accident, marshals could not get the driver out as fast. An electrical fire inside the cockpit would be a nightmare and a half. Also need to consider windshield wipers, glare, etc. They can sort out the latter, not sure about the former.

But then there is the more important argument for me of losing the interaction and personal "relationship" with the drivers. I liked to actually see the drivers racing, watching them push machine to its limit around the track. A cockpit, even with an inside cam, just loses the entire thing and it would feel so robotic and lifeless to me. I know there are some LMP1 cars that are closed, yeah, but I get a similar feeling with those, plus they don't have the fanbase that F1 has.

Just my opinion. I would be okay with a side visor or something though, I suppose.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by Trace17

Qualifying was FANTASTIC. It's a Webilton front row. My mouth is watering at the possibility of tomorrow's race. Ooooh just imagine Mark and Lewis flying off, maybe even Alonso passing Vettel...please don't disappoint me....

Absolutely no idea why Button was a second off pace though. Something seems wrong there.

No, no, no, no and......

NO.

Driver safety IS the biggest aspect, and there are downsides to a canopy. In the case of a fire, it is much harder to exit the vehicle, or much slower. In the case of an accident, marshals could not get the driver out as fast. An electrical fire inside the cockpit would be a nightmare and a half. Also need to consider windshield wipers, glare, etc. They can sort out the latter, not sure about the former.

But then there is the more important argument for me of losing the interaction and personal "relationship" with the drivers. I liked to actually see the drivers racing, watching them push machine to its limit around the track. A cockpit, even with an inside cam, just loses the entire thing and it would feel so robotic and lifeless to me. I know there are some LMP1 cars that are closed, yeah, but I get a similar feeling with those, plus they don't have the fanbase that F1 has.

Just my opinion. I would be okay with a side visor or something though, I suppose.

I was very happy with the results today, Hamilton had said erlier that there was no way he would be able to challenge for the pole but he was over a second faster than his team mate! Thats some impresive driving right there, he even split the red bulls!

And I'm extremely pleased for Webber That was a brilliant time. And it's the first time Sebs been on the second row this season! Now all they need to do is manage the race well and not have any mistakes in the pits.

As for the closed cockpits, I agree 100% with what you said. But,I think given enough time they can work out safe releases for a closed canopy. This is Formula 1 after all, they have inovated driver saftey for years, and I think if anyone could figure out a safe way to do it they can.

Having said that, the second point you make is also something I enjoy greatly. And I would feel like we lose some sort of personal connection with the racers if there was a closed cockpit. It would take away that Human element in a way snd just leave the machine. But, again. IF they could do it safely, then I would me happy to sacrifice that extra level of personal enjoyment if it meant safer driving conditions.

Of course it's all talk right now, and I would expect any changes that are discussed would take years to be implamented if at all. But I could still see problems with access to the driver if Bars or visors were added too. But I think any option of the three could be implemented into the current head rest, so that it is easily uncliped an pulled out.

[Maximus]

Awesome race!