Oppo BDP-103/105/103D/105D Networked Universal Blu-ray Players

[Paul.R.S]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

It should be noted that the new 103/105 loaders can tackle damaged discs that are in worse shape then the 93/95 could read.
Your always going to come across problematic copy protection as it is tweaked by the studios as time goes by, but its no more a issue for the user, then it is now with a FW update to address that. As you said legit copies should not have any problems with Cinavia.

Were you intending to draw any kind of relationship between the, on the one hand, improved loader/playback of physically damaged discs versus, on the other, copy protection issues? Or was it just incidental that you mentioned the former and then the latter in (what initially looked like) the same para? I wouldn't agree that one has anything to do with the other if so.

And FWIW I spoke to the issue of firmware updates (and the timetable on which they are or are not provided) in my second-to-last post. Call them impatient if you wish, but some guys aren't happy about waiting for a firmware upgrade to play a new BD they just purchased and are eager to watch on their ($500) BD player.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

Of course, IMO the operative word in your comments is "technically," which can arguably also be read as "theoretically." And in my (and many others') experience, there are many issues with copy protection and BD playback which theoretically shouldn't have been problematic but were.

It also bears mention regarding your parenthetical that, as evinced by OPPO owner threads, OPPO's players have proven to be uniquely quirky. IMO the quirkiness is more than offset by the assets the players bring to the table. But it is a fact that the 83 had more odd, unprecedented issues than any other BD player I've ever owned.

FWIW the "general answer" would be more comforting if there wasn't precedent for copy protection issues having proved dicey in the past. But there is plenty of that: the discussion boards are rife with folks experiencing issues playing back "legal" copies of BDs. So in the final (for now) analysis, I'm more comfortable advising someone to have an "eyes wide open," cautious approach informed by that precedent than I am with the (IMO somewhat myopic) notion that a new BD wrinkle on something perennially dodgy "should not be a problem."

It's perhaps the difference between relying upon applying theory to the future versus being reasonably aware of the praxis of the past.

As far as I know, you are right, only time will tell what might happen and owning an BDP-80 (maybe I was lucky as I have never experienced any hiccups with it whether BD, DVD-A or SACD) but I do know of their existence. But outside of chipset limitations or implementation, Oppo as proven to give oustanding support for their products which is more than many other manufacturers . Based on my experience with Oppo, I would still recommend them over pretty much all others. But as I said, you are right, we can't take for granted that the experience will be trouble free, but I'd rather have Oppo backing my player than Samsung for example.

[Paul.R.S]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Ahh don't forget this the BDP-103/105 thread, not Q&A about BDP-83.

I would argue that there are some traits that many/all OPPO players have in common given the unique nature of the company that "trumps" model differences.

In any event, I was attempting to provide a thorough response to a question another member explicitly raised. And I think I did a fairly thorough job of explaining why mention of 83 precedent was on topic. Mediatek is still the chipset vendor.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

Were you intending to draw any kind of relationship between the, on the one hand, improved loader/playback of physically damaged discs versus, on the other, copy protection issues? Or was it just incidental that you mentioned the former and then the latter in (what initially looked like) the same para? I wouldn't agree that one has anything to do with the other if so.

And FWIW I spoke to the issue of firmware updates (and the timetable on which they are or are not provided) in my second-to-last post. Call them impatient if you wish, but some guys aren't happy about waiting for a firmware upgrade to play a new BD they just purchased and are eager to watch on their ($500) BD player.

The reference to the improved loader is related if the disk is more beat up (netflix rental for example), the 103/105 is less likely to encounter any HDCP issue, or playback failure then the previous models. Since Cinavia protection is a multi-level watermark that is embedded in the audio track is supposed to resist various transformations of the audio stream, so right its unknown to what extent of physical media damage before it fails?

Playback issues against FW updates is usually a bit unpredictable, sometimes you are trying to not just fix one instance but several, it goes with what the current issues are. Yeah can understand the impatience, but contacting Oppo Technical support directly sometimes yields a beta version to try to see if that corrects the playback issue.

[Paul.R.S]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

But outside of chipset limitations or implementation, Oppo as proven to give oustanding support for their products which is more than many other manufacturers.

"[O]utside of chipset limitations or implementation"? That's a HUGE caveat for an SoC-based player! That SoC is the heart of the player and its operations.

I will try to make this my last post regarding Cinavia since I already feel I'm running into some of the issues that I experience on AVS. My comments are not a referendum on OPPO product support or any lack thereof. As I stated previously regarding what I've discussed directly with company reps, the issue may not be with OPPO per se but with with Mediatek's responsiveness (or lack thereof) to OPPO. But having said that, we're all buying/contemplating buying an OPPO-branded product, not a Mediatek one.

Originally Posted by pentatonic

but I'd rather have Oppo backing my player than Samsung for example.

Irrelevant for me since I, based upon reading others' experiences, would never buy a Samsung BD player.

[Paul.R.S]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

The reference to the improved loader is related if the disk is more beat up (netflix rental for example), the 103/105 is less likely to encounter any HDCP issue, or playback failure then the previous models.

Hmmmm--if the disc is thrashed enough to possibly not play back due to physical issues such as cracks or scratches, I'd think those damage issues are far more, um, damaging to the prospect of your watching that movie that night than anything HDCP-related.

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Yeah can understand the impatience, but contacting Oppo Technical support directly sometimes yields a beta version to try to see if that corrects the playback issue.

Over the years as I've witnessed many technophile hobbyists take these IMO problematic positions, I've become more inured to a practical perspective--especially when I hear from friends with kids who Just Want To Watch The Movie. Some folks just aren't into having player ownership be a hobby, John. They're not interested in downloading "beta firmware" (which we've seen instances of taking away desired player functions). And I don't subscribe to the notion that that means OPPO is "too sophisticated" a brand for "them." It means that such alternatives should be reconciled with practical realities like kids--and some adults--not being interested in waiting or going to the bedroom to watch, say, The Avengers.

Personally, I'd rather have the player be more reliable--regardless of whose "fault" the quirk is--and fold that time spent on (beta) firmware upgrades on enjoying more films.

[Wingman1977]

I originally wanted the 93, but with the 103 coming soon, I will go for that one instead.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

The reference to the improved loader is related if the disk is more beat up (netflix rental for example), the 103/105 is less likely to encounter any HDCP issue, or playback failure then the previous models. Since Cinavia protection is a multi-level watermark that is embedded in the audio track is supposed to resist various transformations of the audio stream, so right its unknown to what extent of physical media damage before it fails?

Playback issues against FW updates is usually a bit unpredictable, sometimes you are trying to not just fix one instance but several, it goes with what the current issues are. Yeah can understand the impatience, but contacting Oppo Technical support directly sometimes yields a beta version to try to see if that corrects the playback issue.

I had an BDP83 and never had a single problem with it. I don't remember if I loaded any updates or not - I probably did, but if I did, they weren't beta updates.

While I agree with your attitude in general that you want things to be simple and "just work", the reality remains that all of our electronic devices are now basically computers and as computers, there are going to be software updates and there are going to be bugs.

[UNCMT9]

Needing to upgrade my 3 year old Panny. Have been looking at the 93 for quite some time but may make the leap to the 103.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

Personally, I'd rather have the player be more reliable--regardless of whose "fault" the quirk is--and fold that time spent on (beta) firmware upgrades on enjoying more films.

While I agree

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

the reality remains that all of our electronic devices are now basically computers and as computers, there are going to be software updates and there are going to be bugs.

My thoughts exactly

[dobyblue]

Assuming the 103 will be $499 maximum, are there any other recommendations for a universal player anyone would have where the following are must have features of equal importance

1) DVD-Audio playback
2) SACD native DSD playback over HDMI
3) ability to convert 1080i50 > 1080i60

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Assuming the 103 will be $499 maximum, are there any other recommendations for a universal player anyone would have where the following are must have features of equal importance

1) DVD-Audio playback
2) SACD native DSD playback over HDMI
3) ability to convert 1080i50 > 1080i60

First off the new Oppo 103 is advertised at $499 on Oppo's site. And to my knowledge only Oppo has such a player, PAL conversion is where the others lack.

[kesando]

Originally Posted by Magicmonger

Just another reason to make the 93/95s a collector's item...

Indeed

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Currently there is zero likelihood any Oppo players that predate the 103/105 being updated by FW to encompass Cinavia.

I hope this is the case. That said I use my display for all digital media including Netflix streaming (1080p, 5.1 DD) , Youtube (HD) and movie rips off of my USB thumb drive (1080p, 5.1 DD). The Lack of Cinavia support on the BDP-93 would just be icing on the cake in my situation.

[MrSlr]

The manual is up for download on the main site.. One issue i saw that bugged me. The oppo 103 does not do DSD Direct over HDMI 1 due to hardware limitations. You have to use HDMI 2..

I like HDMI due to not having to switch inputs on both TV and reciever (I know its laziness), but it also is easy for my wife and frequent visitors that come over to watch movies and what not..

I'll probably try out PCM so that way i have room correction..

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by MrSlr

The manual is up for download on the main site.. One issue i saw that bugged me. The oppo 103 does not do DSD Direct over HDMI 1 due to hardware limitations. You have to use HDMI 2..

I like HDMI due to not having to switch inputs on both TV and reciever (I know its laziness), but it also is easy for my wife and frequent visitors that come over to watch movies and what not..

I'll probably try out PCM so that way i have room correction..

Compare the previous QDEO used in the 93/95 with the latest QDEO used in the 103/105:

• 88DE2750 Adaptive Digital Video Format Converter with Qdeo™ Video Processing, no embedded CPU, 1 input port.
  
• 88DE2755 Adaptive Digital Video Format Converter SOC with Qdeo™ Video Processing. Integrated v1.4 HDMI Rx and Tx, with 3D support. Embedded cpu consisting of J1 ARM v5TE- compliant Marvell Processor Core @400Mhz with 16KB IRAM and 16KB Data RAM, 2 input ports.

As it stands right now, DSD direct is only available out the Mediatek HDMI-2 output rather then the QDEO HDMI-1 output. Can't say if you would be able to audibly discern the differences of using DSD Direct over HDMI, versus PCM over HDMI.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Compare the previous QDEO used in the 93/95 with the latest QDEO used in the 103/105:

• 88DE2750 Adaptive Digital Video Format Converter with Qdeo™ Video Processing, no embedded CPU, 1 input port.
  
• 88DE2755 Adaptive Digital Video Format Converter SOC with Qdeo™ Video Processing. Integrated v1.4 HDMI Rx and Tx, with 3D support. Embedded cpu consisting of J1 ARM v5TE- compliant Marvell Processor Core @400Mhz with 16KB IRAM and 16KB Data RAM, 2 input ports.

As it stands right now, DSD direct is only available out the Mediatek HDMI-2 output rather then the QDEO HDMI-1 output. Can't say if you would be able to audibly discern the differences of using DSD Direct over HDMI, versus PCM over HDMI.

I'm not going for a war over this, not at all because I use PCM since my receiver doesn't handle DSD. (Think it's awesome), And if you, like many of us, don't have a very high end setup, I agree, you probably wouldn't hear the difference, but I have read many articles on it that do say it 'can' make a difference. Can't remember why actually, probably jitter. But if that's where you were at, you'd probably wait for the 105 anyways.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

I'm not going for a war over this, not at all because I use PCM since my receiver doesn't handle DSD. (Think it's awesome), And if you, like many of us, don't have a very high end setup, I agree, you probably wouldn't hear the difference, but I have read many articles on it that do say it 'can' make a difference. Can't remember why actually, probably jitter. But if that's where you were at, you'd probably wait for the 105 anyways.

No waiting, have one.

For the audio purists yes there might be some barely perceptible jitter associated with HDMI, then again the Oppo players can use the analog audio output, setting "HDMI Audio" to "Off" and "SACD Output" to "DSD" in the "Audio Format Setup" section of the setup menu will now maintain DSD output direct to the analog audio D/A converters.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

And to my knowledge only Oppo has such a player, PAL conversion is where the others lack.

That's a shame none of the other universal players support this.

All Samsung players sold in North America, even the cheapest ones like the BD-D5100, will convert 1080i50 UK Blu-ray discs to 1080i60 on the fly. Of course they don't play SACD/DVD-A discs...

I'm looking to replace my Samsung BD-D5700 which I bought SOLELY to play the Formula 1 2011 Season Review as it's the only 1080i50 disc I own and the Pioneer Elite DV-48 all in one fell swoop. The Oppo would replace the PS3 as well for Blu-ray 3D duties.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

That's a shame none of the other universal players support this.

All Samsung players sold in North America, even the cheapest ones like the BD-D5100, will convert 1080i50 UK Blu-ray discs to 1080i60 on the fly. Of course they don't play SACD/DVD-A discs...

I'm looking to replace my Samsung BD-D5700 which I bought SOLELY to play the Formula 1 2011 Season Review as it's the only 1080i50 disc I own and the Pioneer Elite DV-48 all in one fell swoop. The Oppo would replace the PS3 as well for Blu-ray 3D duties.

Yea I know what you mean, even the super cheap (not in quality but price) Insignia did. Though for $500 you're really going to get all those great feature in a top of the line player, and spare your PS3, put your Sammy elsewhere.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Assuming the 103 will be $499 maximum, are there any other recommendations for a universal player anyone would have where the following are must have features of equal importance

1) DVD-Audio playback
2) SACD native DSD playback over HDMI
3) ability to convert 1080i50 > 1080i60

Yamaha has a another Universal player announced called the BD-A1020 that also does these functions. Goes for $449. But if one compares the rear of each player, its night and day to what the differences are between players for similar prices, Oppo BDP-103 being slightly more expensive. As far as abilities not even close.

BD-A2010 rear
BDP-103 rear