Can you tell the difference between Lossless and compressed?

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Gally

That's just patently untrue. There are plenty of cases in movies where the bit depth of the soundtrack just ill not matter. Even professional sound engineers have a hard time distinguishing between the two unless the track is complicated. And the biggest difference will be heard in dynamic range.

I agree with the dynamic range statement! That's my problem, my speakers specialty is dynamics, a Klipsch heritage, JTR, Zu Audio, or other H.E. speaker has the tendency to tell everything including noise in your system. I have always been able to tell, most people that come to my house say that my system is more detailed than the theater....just saying.

[MrFattBill]

Originally Posted by prerich

I can tell it every time! I rented a bluray from redbox and without looking at my receiver I notice something was wrong! My wife thought I was going nuts, but I realized that the redbox BDs are crippled to only the high bit lossy tracks, I only watch a movie now if I buy it. Other than that, might as well wait for it to come on FX HD ! Lossless audio (compressed into a container or not) is what brought me over to BD. That's why I don't do Netflix, HD video is real cool but, I'm a sound guy...won't be going to 4k either.

Mostly Lionsgate stuff.

Bill

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by prerich

...the redbox BDs are crippled to only the high bit lossy tracks...

Tell me about Redbox audio limitations. Why do you think they output max bitrate legacy codecs rather than the lower rates used on DVD?

[BStecke]

I have yet to rent a disc from Redbox that is limited to lossy audio. Sans features yes, but not crippled audio. Is this limited to certain studios?

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by BStecke

I have yet to rent a disc from Redbox that is limited to lossy audio. Sans features yes, but not crippled audio. Is this limited to certain studios?

right now mostly Lionsgate/summit

[prerich]

Originally Posted by wormraper

right now mostly Lionsgate/summit

Yeah..the Expendables II was dumbed down.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Tell me about Redbox audio limitations. Why do you think they output max bitrate legacy codecs rather than the lower rates used on DVD?

They may even be the lower bit stuff, but it's not lossless...you can tell right off! That's my complaint or my point, you can tell the lossless from the lossy.. All I know it was horrid, messed up my pleasure altogether.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Tell me about Redbox audio limitations. Why do you think they output max bitrate legacy codecs rather than the lower rates used on DVD?

Oh, I believe Redbox does this to stop a practice known as R&R -rent and you can guess the other "R" ... That's piracy, which I'm totally against, but if I rent a BD, it's because I want to enjoy the HD audio as well as the HiDef picture, our society is so sight based..that's why we can sell beautiful speakers and equipment that doesn't out perform 30 year old gear...but that's another thread

[BStecke]

Hm . . . I rented Dredd and it was ok. Strange.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by prerich

They may even be the lower bit stuff, but it's not lossless...you can tell right off! That's my complaint or my point, you can tell the lossless from the lossy.. All I know it was horrid, messed up my pleasure altogether.

I asked because you said the Redbox version had the high bitrate lossy tracks. I think that's unlikely. They almost certainly have the lower bitrates used on DVD. If so, your test doesn't address the question of whether there's an audible difference between lossless and the higher bitrate lossy encodes on Blu-ray.

Remember, my post said most people probably can't tell the difference between lossless and the high bitrate lossy codecs. You disputed that post and cited your experience with what's almost certainly lower bitrate lossy encodes.

[Solo man]

I can tell the difference and I also have been told by some people that they can't hear a difference on their own setups which I don't doubt.

I am the kind if person though that is on a journey trying to improve the sound on my setup. Whenever I get a bluray and there is an option for DTS MA, I get all excited.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by BIslander

I asked because you said the Redbox version had the high bitrate lossy tracks. I think that's unlikely. They almost certainly have the lower bitrates used on DVD. If so, your test doesn't address the question of whether there's an audible difference between lossless and the higher bitrate lossy encodes on Blu-ray.

Remember, my post said most people probably can't tell the difference between lossless and the high bitrate lossy codecs. You disputed that post and cited your experience with what's almost certainly lower bitrate lossy encodes.

It wasn't a test, I just popped the BD in (I view using jriver). And I noticed the sound wasn't right. I thought something was wrong with my Jriver settings...played several BDs and then I looked at the receiver to check the output. Everything was fine...then I put the red box BD in and saw that it was Dolby Ex...that's when I found out it was dumbed down. However I have listened to other high bit lossy and could tell (remember with computers in the early years powerdvd used to downmix to the core lossy - no protected audio path) my urgent motherboard was one of the first to offer PAP.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by BIslander

I asked because you said the Redbox version had the high bitrate lossy tracks. I think that's unlikely. They almost certainly have the lower bitrates used on DVD. If so, your test doesn't address the question of whether there's an audible difference between lossless and the higher bitrate lossy encodes on Blu-ray.

Remember, my post said most people probably can't tell the difference between lossless and the high bitrate lossy codecs. You disputed that post and cited your experience with what's almost certainly lower bitrate lossy encodes.

Oh, by the way - I'm not totally disagreeing with you, most people (those that just listen to the story, or JSP) they could care less - I'm only speaking for myself - my wife is one of those that can't tell, or rather doesn't care. Most of America wouldn't or can't tell the difference, but I can. It's just a me thing.

Now what I can barely tell the difference in is 720p vs 1080p ...I can be fooled by 720p often!

[BIslander]

I actually meant what I said. I doubt that you could consistently tell the difference between lossless and the high bitrate lossy codecs in a properly conducted blind test. If there are audible differences, they're pretty subtle.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by BIslander

I actually meant what I said. I doubt that you could consistently tell the difference between lossless and the high bitrate lossy codecs in a properly conducted blind test.

You are correct. Not possible to tell the difference between the two.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by prerich

, but I can. .

I call bull$hit.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by BIslander

I actually meant what I said. I doubt that you could consistently tell the difference between lossless and the high bitrate lossy codecs in a properly conducted blind test. If there are audible differences, they're pretty subtle.

Subtle...but discernable. However, I will say that I cannot consistently tell the difference between 720p and 1080p!

FYI prior occupation cryptologist collection and analyst, trained in advance signals identification techniques. My hearing is still pretty good. QSA 5/5!

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by prerich

Subtle...but discernable. However, I will say that I cannot consistently tell the difference between 720p and 1080p!

FYI prior occupation cryptologist collection and analyst, trained in advance signals identification techniques. My hearing is still pretty good. QSA 5/5!

I still call bull$hit.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

I still call bull$hit.

You can call all you want...in the end, enjoy what you enjoy, whether it be lossy 2.0 on tv speakers, or magico q7's all around, Audio Research electronics, with the best lossless available. In the end it's your money and your pleasure. Oh, FYI - I personally don't use profanities or words deemed to be such. You're entitled to your opinion, and the answer to this question will never be determined (the one concerning me) which makes all of our previous comments irrelevant....we will agree to politely disagree.

[Solo man]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

I still call bull$hit.

There are more intelligent ways to reply and not a great way to get along with others. You could have went with your own DBT results showing them here before calling out bs. Maybe your upset nobody told you back then it is a subtle difference or none at all. Here is your words from another forum:



"I am not sure how interesting it is?

I wish it was all in one but with Dolby Digital laserdisc, DTS HD, PCM from LD...just would not work with one receiver unless I bought a demodulator, but that would just add up.

I have at least 150 Dolby Digital laserdiscs, I want to use them wherever I want and get my money's worth. I also wanted DTS MA for my new movies..I also happened to have an Elite reference player, so that is hard to give up.

The only issue I have noticed is that my new Yamaha does not seperate LD PCM into four channels, it reads it as two channels. So, all LD sound (except DTS ld) goes into my Elite, then into the Yamaha."


I guess your still enjoying your laserdisc days and there is nothing wrong with that but I mean why waste energy on DTS MA. Move on or educate others in a civil manner why there is no difference. I am sure Prerich got offended when you called bs and we are all adults here. BIslander's approach was a lot less antagonistic and I respected him for that.

Anyways, I had fifth element on laserdisc but sold that equipment along with the laserdisc but I will admit that that viewing of the movie on that format got me hooked to HT. I might not have the best system out there but always trying to improve.