Phantom of the Paradise (1974) Arrow pre-order

[Rockercub]

I just got mine today, but I won't have a chance to watch it until tomorrow at the earliest. I did check out a couple of scenes though, and I have to say that it looks too dark to me. I actually did see it in the theaters during its original run, but I was only 7 years old, so I wouldn't trust my memories on that. But I'm pretty sure I'll be bumping up the brightness on my set for this. In any case, I would have paid full price just for Guillermo del Toro's interview of Paul Williams. And to have Paradise Regained without French subtitles.

[David M]

But I'm pretty sure I'll be bumping up the brightness on my set for this.

Don't bump up the "Brightness" control, that will destroy black level. If you want to make shadow details more visible, use a lower Gamma setting instead.

[Rockercub]

Originally Posted by Lyris

Don't bump up the "Brightness" control, that will destroy black level. If you want to make shadow details more visible, use a lower Gamma setting instead.

Thanks for the advice! I'll give it a shot.

[Rockercub]

Originally Posted by Lyris

If you want to make shadow details more visible, use a lower Gamma setting instead.

Thanks again - worked perfectly (although it was actually a higher gamma setting that did the trick). Even with the adjustment though, I have to say that the movie looked a bit off to me, and I'm going to have to side with the French disc, for my own personal taste at least. I also thought I'd mention that the DVDBeaver review and screenshots seem right on the money to me. Just be aware that screenshots never capture the entire look of a film (in other words, Paul Williams looked a little yellow in some scenes, but not all). Now, I guess we'll have to wait and see what Scream Factory comes up with!

[David M]

Unless you're watching on a calibrated display, you're not seeing the colors of any film as intended. (No argument that the new master of Phantom looks very different to the one used on the French BD though - you don't need a calibrated display to see there's a difference).

[Rockercub]

Originally Posted by Lyris

Unless you're watching on a calibrated display, you're not seeing the colors of any film as intended. (No argument that the new master of Phantom looks very different to the one used on the French BD though - you don't need a calibrated display to see there's a difference).

I used the THX Optimizer on mine, but I've recently dialed back the color a bit. All my recent UK blu-rays (The Fury, The Brood, Scanners) were way too red in the skin tones. But, yeah, great point. You have to wonder how many people are b*tching about a picture on an improperly calibrated set.

[David M]

THX Optimizer is a great start, but I've done a lot of house calls to people who've used it and it's clear that it's outdated - it's missing instructions to turn off all the crap that modern TVs have on by default which screw up the picture.

On top of that, it doesn't instruct the user to select the closest-to-accurate color temperature (which is usually Warm2). Most people I visit who've used basic calibration wizards like those are still watching the manufacturer's blue-tinted picture (~9000k) for that reason.

The color decoding (which is what the optimizer has you set with the color bars pattern) is usually the least of a TV's worries. Video processing and off-kilter grayscale are right at the top of the list.

And unfortunately, to truly get accurate grayscale, you need to measure off the screen with a probe and take measurements, which is beyond the scope of basic setup wizards.

Like you say, there are a lot of comments online regarding how a certain release looks. I'm not saying that those are invalid (like I said, the new Phantom is very clearly different from the old one and it doesn't take a totally accurate display to see that), but most people aren't aware that if they haven't had a full calibration done, they're seeing the disc + whatever their screen is doing to it.

[Rockercub]

Originally Posted by Lyris

THX Optimizer is a great start, but I've done a lot of house calls to people who've used it and it's clear that it's outdated - it's missing instructions to turn off all the crap that modern TVs have on by default which screw up the picture.

Is there a calibration tool you recommend?

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by NoirFan

The site review of Witchboard also mentions compression artifacts (albeit only in the opening sequence), so apparently its an ongoing issue.

I've been complaining for some time about Shout Factory's compression issues. Some people refused to believe that they have issues but I know I what I've seen on many of my Shout discs and the compression issues have been mentioned in many other threads for their films.

They really need to improve their compression big time.

[prawnee]

Watched the disc last night. Absolutely fantastic. I've always liked the film since I saw it late night on BBC 2 as a kid and for some reason imagined that Paul Williams was close to the character he portrayed, but after watching the Paul Williams/Guillermo del Toro interview, 3 things become apparent. 1. Paul Williams appears to be a genuinely nice guy. 2. He is a great actor. 3. He wrote the songs for the Muppet's Christmas Carol! A great coup from Arrow arranging that interview.

Did anyone else notice a deterioration of image when Swan introduces Beef at the airport? It was like part of the scene couldn't be restored for whatever reason.

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by Rockercub

Is there a calibration tool you recommend?

I would recommend a professional calibration above everything else, although good results can be had going down the DIY route.

[David M]

Originally Posted by Rockercub

Is there a calibration tool you recommend?

As Tele says, the know-how and equipment is extremely expensive.

Google for an ISF or THX calibrator in your nearest large city. The price will be a few hundred of whatever currency so out of impulse buy territory, but it's worth it if you're serious about home theater. And WAAAY cheaper than buying the probe!

[David M]

Did anyone else notice a deterioration of image when Swan introduces Beef at the airport? It was like part of the scene couldn't be restored for whatever reason.

Watch "The Swan Song Fiasco" featurette for the answer to that

[prawnee]

Originally Posted by Lyris

Watch "The Swan Song Fiasco" featurette for the answer to that

Haha, thanks are that. I knew about the issues with the logos but not to extent explained in the featurette.

[Rockercub]

Thanks for the info, Lyris and tele1962! I'm checking it out. Yeah, the whole "Swan Song fiasco" is a sad thing - in addition to the zoomed in footage, the replaced logos are much more noticeable on blu-ray. Too bad they couldn't restore it all now that Led Zeppelin's Swan Song isn't around anymore. Those alternative takes looked in pretty good shape.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by Lyris

Watch "The Swan Song Fiasco" featurette for the answer to that

I always wondered about this stuff when I watched for the first time the movie on DVD some years ago. I had no idea it was so bad and so rushed due to these unfortunate bad timings.

[captainjoe]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I've been complaining for some time about Shout Factory's compression issues. Some people refused to believe that they have issues but I know I what I've seen on many of my Shout discs and the compression issues have been mentioned in many other threads for their films.

They really need to improve their compression big time.

Many of their releases have macro blocking it's really bad. They need to fire their compressionist

[tenia]

I just finished watching the movie, and wasn't bothered by the new color scheme. My only concern is the loss of details in dark areas due to the picture being much darker.

The more saturated palette does increase the baroque look of the movie, but there are shots where the overall looks are a lot apart.
The night shot where Winslow sneaks in Death Records was grey in the French BD, it is now blue in the Arrow BD. The tryouts of different musical styles in front of Swan was pink-ish, it's now gold-ish, etc etc.

However, what really strikes out is the much finer look of this new disc. Compared to the Arrow BD, the French BD looks like a mess. The shot where Winslow tries not to have his teeth pulled out at Sing Sing really shows the range of improvement PQ-wise.

But the real treat is the sound. I've been extremely positively surprised by the LPCM 2.0 Music & Effects trakc, which sounds amazing. I actually switched to it for all musical sequences. It sounds much clearer, much more dynamic than the regular 2.0 or the 4.0 tracks, where the lyrics sound muffled in comparison.

I don't know if it's due to the final mix of the movie, but I ended up avoiding the regular LPCM 2.0 track, due to these muffled lyrics.

The 4.0 track does add some surrounds depth, but it's oh so subtle.

In the end, I almost ended up watching the full movie with the M&E track, due to its very high quality. However, the 4.0 track does have some rounder quality in the low frequency that the M&E doesn't have (I guess the M&E is indeed clearer, with the 4.0 being louder).

Originally Posted by prawnee

3. He wrote the songs for the Muppet's Christmas Carol!

He actually wrote Rainbow Connection !

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I've been complaining for some time about Shout Factory's compression issues. Some people refused to believe that they have issues but I know I what I've seen on many of my Shout discs and the compression issues have been mentioned in many other threads for their films.

They really need to improve their compression big time.

Same with criterion, they should do two disc releases

[NoirFan]

Ha, I had a flash of anger when this finally arrived today, noticing what at first glance appeared to be an unsightly, one-inch gash across the upper-left side of the steelbook, only to realize (I had to compare it to photos online) that it was just the outline of the Phantom's outfit.