Once Upon a Time in America (1984) (Extended Director's Cut)

[davidthenikonuser]

Cool to hear about a new release. Was looking to pick up the blu, but looks to be OOP.

[MattPerdue]

Originally Posted by davidthenikonuser

Cool to hear about a new release. Was looking to pick up the blu, but looks to be OOP.

So it is. When did this happen? I was thinking about getting it to go alongside this new one.

[JimDiGriz]

Just read Christopher Frayling's excellent book on Leone - Something to Do With Death.

Really anticipating this new release of ..America now! Leone intended all along for it to be two films because he knew early on that it would be far too long for one film. I think the first cut they put together was something like 6 hours long!

Ive put off buying the extended Italian one because I dont like the sound of the subpar PQ at all. Hopefully this new one will be worth it (I have the existing cut blu-ray already of course). Incidentally, from what I read in the book, Leone really didnt like cutting the film down to a shorter length so providing the restorers put everything back where it was originally intended, we hopefully will be getting a film closer to Leone's original vision despite him obviously not being around to do this himself unfortunately.

[davidthenikonuser]

Originally Posted by MattPerdue

So it is. When did this happen? I was thinking about getting it to go alongside this new one.

Not sure, but last week when I was checking amazon for it they no longer carry it and only 3rd party sellers have it for over $100. Best Buy no longer have it either.

[davidthenikonuser]

Originally Posted by MattPerdue

So it is. When did this happen? I was thinking about getting it to go alongside this new one.

The WB Shop looks to still have it in stock for $13.79.

http://www.wbshop.com/product/once+u...e=&from=Search

[filmmusic]

Haven't seen this film ever and I'm wondering if it's worth a blind buy.
I will also be waiting for the extended cut, but assuming it's the same with the Italian release, I'm not sure I like that golden tint comparing to the US release:

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

Has anyone seen it when it was first released in the cinema?
Does he/she remember what were the original colors?

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Haven't seen this film ever and I'm wondering if it's worth a blind buy.
I will also be waiting for the extended cut, but assuming it's the same with the Italian release, I'm not sure I like that golden tin comparing to the US release:

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

Has anyone seen it when it was first released in the cinema?
Does he/she remember what were the original colors?

One of the known faults of the Italian release is that strange and horrible sepia tone. They may have done it so that the new scenes aren't so jarring due to their lesser quality.

I would have already picked up the italian release if it weren't for the fact that the bloody thing is yellow (to the point that it's un watchable). Hopefully the US release will be the real deal.

[Kriztoffer Swank]

I just hope Warner Bros. have the sense to put this on two discs. Cramming a 4+ hour movie on a single BD50 doesn't bode well, especially with the Italian BD having all those compression artifacts.

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by kriztoffer swank

i just hope warner bros. Have the sense to put this on two discs. Cramming a 4+ hour movie on a single bd50 doesn't bode well, especially with the italian bd having all those compression artifacts.

+1

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Kriztoffer Swank

I just hope Warner Bros. have the sense to put this on two discs. Cramming a 4+ hour movie on a single BD50 doesn't bode well, especially with the Italian BD having all those compression artifacts.

Agreed...we'll see.

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by Kriztoffer Swank

I just hope Warner Bros. have the sense to put this on two discs. Cramming a 4+ hour movie on a single BD50 doesn't bode well, especially with the Italian BD having all those compression artifacts.

+1. I also hope they put that halfway break in a sensible place. I seem to remember the old DVD SE stopping in a very silly place?

[HeavyHitter]

The problem is, picture quality with Blu-ray has never been at the forefront for Warner compared to Fox, Sony, and Disney.

For at least the first 4-5 years of the format, they gave us very low bit rate, smoothed over/filtered inferior VC-1 encodes. Almost all of those titles really need to be redone as they look like 720p at best and have that 'older' transfer look to them. (One exception is Blade Runner which still holds up remarkably well despite being VC-1 which just goes to show how cutting edge that transfer and careful encoding was at the time although a higher bit rate AVC encode would still offer at least some/slight improvement. One would have hoped given how many fricken times they have re-released this title, they would have re-encoded it to AVC, but anyhow...). Hopefully at some point, the 4K push offers them some incentives to re-release these titles properly as the last few years their catalog titles have improved, so I am giving them credit here. I am badly wanting to see a new Goodfellas, Unforgiven, and Kubrick titles among others.

Then, as mentioned, they also have the habit of cramming very long movies onto one disc which again is not ideal. Not sure what to expect on this release.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Haven't seen this film ever and I'm wondering if it's worth a blind buy.
I will also be waiting for the extended cut, but assuming it's the same with the Italian release, I'm not sure I like that golden tint comparing to the US release:

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

The colour's horrible, the contrast is shot to hell and the encoding is terrible - and yet the Italian extended BD still manages to show significantly more detail than the Warners BD, which underlines what HH said above.

[thompsonjohn]

Is this really getting that close to a blu-ray release? Last time I heard this was in the news was when Scorsese restored everything he could and did a screening at Cannes in 2012 of the 'restored version.'

Another thing, holy sh!t, not only did I not realize the blu-ray edition is OOP, but people are trying to get $80 for it new and $60 for it used on Amazon.

I read about some of the restored scenes, but overall do you guys think it will make much of an impact on the film itself in regards to the overall story or do you think we'll get mostly disposable scenes that don't change the story overall?

I mean, really what else could we add to an already 3hr49min film? I think it's perfect story-wise, sure we could use a better transfer though ("Goodfellas" as well if you're out there reading this Marty). I also wish we could get the full length documentary on the making of the film that we only get an 'excerpt' of on the current OOP disc.

And hey, while we're at it, why not give us a new commentary and new retrospective with DeNiro, Woods, Pesci, Burt Young, Tuesday Weld, Treat Williams, James Russo, William Forsythe, Jennifer Connelly, Ennio Morricone, and Scorsese. I mean if they wanna put together a good retrospective on the film with a majority of the cast/crew now is the time before some of 'em kick the bucket.

I'm satisfied with the current disc, but I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade and get a new edition. As far as a blind-buys go, if you love crime films, not too many get better than this.

[St.ylo]

Originally Posted by thompsonjohn

I read about some of the restored scenes, but overall do you guys think it will make much of an impact on the film itself in regards to the overall story or do you think we'll get mostly disposable scenes that don't change the story overall?

I mean, really what else could we add to an already 3hr49min film?

Well IMDB's "Trivia" section says this about the missing 45 minutes:
"Sergio Leone wanted the film to have a running time of 250-265 minutes. The 229-minute version left out 45 minutes that Leone considered essential on the cutting room floor, including: further explanation of the mob/labor relationship, Noodles meeting Carol in 1968, and a good deal of footage featuring Noodles's relationship with Eve."

I'm not sure how much of that was actually found/restored though.

A review I read says "Rest assured, the new scenes, including a new final confrontation between Max (Woods) and the head of the union, are definitely not extraneous."

That sounds pretty big to me. They also mention that the scene where Noodles drives the car off the pier is extended so that Max sees everyone but Noodles surface, causing him to panic, which mirrors what happened when they were kids when Noodles can't find Max after falling in the water.

Scorsese, writing in Vanity Fair about the restoration, says "Recently, with the help of the Leone family, 25 minutes of material was found, including an extended excerpt from Antony and Cleopatra, featuring Elizabeth McGovern, and a long-rumored exchange between De Niro and Louise Fletcher."

[GoldMotel]

Originally Posted by St.ylo

Well IMDB's "Trivia" section says this about the missing 45 minutes:
"Sergio Leone wanted the film to have a running time of 250-265 minutes. The 229-minute version left out 45 minutes that Leone considered essential on the cutting room floor, including: further explanation of the mob/labor relationship, Noodles meeting Carol in 1968, and a good deal of footage featuring Noodles's relationship with Eve."

I'm not sure how much of that was actually found/restored though.

A review I read says "Rest assured, the new scenes, including a new final confrontation between Max (Woods) and the head of the union, are definitely not extraneous."

That sounds pretty big to me. They also mention that the scene where Noodles drives the car off the pier is extended so that Max sees everyone but Noodles surface, causing him to panic, which mirrors what happened when they were kids when Noodles can't find Max after falling in the water.

Scorsese, writing in Vanity Fair about the restoration, says "Recently, with the help of the Leone family, 25 minutes of material was found, including an extended excerpt from Antony and Cleopatra, featuring Elizabeth McGovern, and a long-rumored exchange between De Niro and Louise Fletcher."

These scenes were already used in the Cannes screening a few years back, and are part of the "extended" italian blu.

There's still 20+ minutes that have yet to be seen.

[St.ylo]

Originally Posted by GoldMotel

These scenes were already used in the Cannes screening a few years back, and are part of the "extended" italian blu.

There's still 20+ minutes that have yet to be seen.

I had no idea! So with those 20, I guess that'll be the "complete" cut with those 45 minutes Leone refers to? This is pretty exciting stuff. I just watched the movie for the first time today and really liked it.

[GoldMotel]

Originally Posted by St.ylo

I had no idea! So with those 20, I guess that'll be the "complete" cut with those 45 minutes Leone refers to? This is pretty exciting stuff. I just watched the movie for the first time today and really liked it.

Well, for this upcoming extended director's cut, I'm not sure if it's been announced as being a remaster of the italian blu (which ran 251 minutes) or the complete 269 minute version.

[bigdaddyhorse]

Just because IMDB says 45 minutes are missing, doesn't mean they got the math right or that all 45 were even supposed to be part of the DC. It seems like if IMDB hears of a longer workprint, all the sudden everything else is cut. Not necessarily the case most of the time. Plus I could go change IMDB to say 4 hours are cut, that doesn't make it true! I would go by what has been released so far. I just don't really buy that the DC dvd is still not the DC.

Now if the dvd is longer than the Italian BD, then the BD must be trimmed. If those are the same runtime (give or take seconds for logos), then IMDB is making panic from mistakes again.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by St.ylo

A review I read says "Rest assured, the new scenes, including a new final confrontation between Max (Woods) and the head of the union, are definitely not extraneous."

That sounds pretty big to me.

The 229-minute version was his preferred version, but he planned to incorporate the deleted scenes into a longer version for European TV that got abandoned in the wake of the film's disastrous initial reception. To be honest, there's nothing here that's essential to the story or which adds much to the film: this is more a version for people who love the film and want more.

Louise Fletcher's restored scene at the cemetery is fairly redundant and not particularly well played (it also boasts quite atrocious picture quality), Elizabeth McGovern's Katherine Hepburnesque death scene from Antony and Cleopatra tends to slow the picture down and much of the rest is filling in gaps: in this version, Noodles is a witness to the car bomb that kills a senate hearing witness, while his relationship with Darlanne Fluegel is much more fleshed out (albeit awkwardly placed after the rape scene), underlining his sexual immaturity. There's a brief exchange with his chauffeur about the Nazis and Jews ("Jews don't have to be like Italians and look up to criminals") but it's clear that producer Arnon Milchan's performance led to that being cut from the film.

The longest addition is a final scene with Treat Williams' Jimmy Hoffa-like union boss and James Woods that shows how the balance of power between the two has shifted, but while it's interesting it spells out too much of what's coming in the finale and really is a bit redundant.