Blu-ray reacts angrily to HD DVD claims

[Tulsa]

Some of you creative types with photoshop need to produce a few pics for the holidays.

1. Santa standing next to his sleigh with his bag over-flowing with blu-rays while he's dumping same hd-dvd's in a nearby trashcan.
2. Santa going down this list, naughty - hddvd nice - blu-ray.

Just to brighten up the holidays.

[teunis]

Not sure how to post so that this is viewed with having to click on it.
Maybe somebody can help out?


Meh, looks like shart.

[AikonEnt]

Well if the PS3 doesn't count as a Blu player then the 20+ movies I have were bought for no reason other than to fill up shelf space.

I use it for games and for watching Blu. It is my Blu player because I have no intention of buying a stand alone, end of. Anybody that says it isn't a player is clearly talking out of their backsides.

As for attach rates, what would happen to HD-DUD statistics if you include every 360 that has been sold because they all have the potential to play HD-DUD don't they same as a PS3 can play Blu? As far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant that you have to buy an (fugly) add-on.

In my home I have a PS3 and 23 Blu, obviously giving an attach rate of 23.

I have 2 (don't ask) 360s and zero, zilch, zip, squat HD-DUDs. Giving an attach rate of a big fat nothing.

The winner is clear.

[atomik kinder]

Originally Posted by AikonEnt

Well if the PS3 doesn't count as a Blu player then the 20+ movies I have were bought for no reason other than to fill up shelf space.

I use it for games and for watching Blu. It is my Blu player because I have no intention of buying a stand alone, end of. Anybody that says it isn't a player is clearly talking out of their backsides.

As for attach rates, what would happen to HD-DUD statistics if you include every 360 that has been sold because they all have the potential to play HD-DUD don't they same as a PS3 can play Blu? As far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant that you have to buy an (fugly) add-on.

In my home I have a PS3 and 23 Blu, obviously giving an attach rate of 23.

I have 2 (don't ask) 360s and zero, zilch, zip, squat HD-DUDs. Giving an attach rate of a big fat nothing.

The winner is clear.

You also forgot all of the Toshiba computers that now include HD DVD drives. They can't possibly think that everyone that buys one of those buys movies. If they included those numbers it would fall even further.

[Grubert]

New development:

Blu-ray group "refutes" HD DVD's "misleading" statement
(and they have a pie chart)

Quoting back the same independent stats source Gfk, the Blu-ray lot say that the statement by HD DVD "ignores the fact" that of HD discs bought by consumers year-to-date in Europe, 73% were in the Blu-ray Disc format and 27% were HD DVD.

[CptGreedle]

I like that chart.
It shows you that HD-DVD is only popular in the states, and not even popular enough to keep it afloat. I really really really wish they'd just drop the entire facade and admit defeat.
The only harm is they'd loose out their favorite format for a better one. They'd save face by being a man about it, and they'd save money by supporting the better selling format!

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

I like that chart.
It shows you that HD-DVD is only popular in the states, and not even popular enough to keep it afloat. I really really really wish they'd just drop the entire facade and admit defeat.
The only harm is they'd loose out their favorite format for a better one. They'd save face by being a man about it, and they'd save money by supporting the better selling format!

because that red slice of that PIE is going to get smaller..if they wait to long there will not be anything left get out while the getting is good come back to the table Toshiba and lets talk about Absorbtion ,.ugh.i mean...unity of our formats.

[L or S of Perfect?]

"However, to deliberately mislead the market by misrepresenting the facts is inexcusable. Coming into the critical holiday season many people will be making important purchasing decisions and these need to be based on sound information, not spin and hype."

Ouch.

[CptGreedle]

BDA is taking the gloves off... finally. Lets hope they really start to smack HD-DVD around for the holidays.

[DaViD Boulet]

If BD is taking their gloves off, those comments by the CEO were a bit bothersome (the "stalemate" conversation).

thoughts?

[savage1984]

To us, these numbers like 2-1 and 3-1, they say the war is clearly in our favor - so much so that in my opinion the war will be over before 2009. By this time next year, Xbox 360 (don't own one) might even have a blu-ray add-on. Blu-ray is finally voicing out that HD DVD are a bunch of low-life liars out to use the public for any money they can squeeze out before dropping the ball completely.
As for the comments by Sony's CEO, they were taken out of context. In his eyes, this could have been completely avoided if there would have been more successful negotiations between the two parties before all of this. Now, because the general public(the uninformed) are so confused it seems like a stalemate, yet BLU-RAY is clearly winning on every front. Just my 2 cents.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

I think I know of a way to determine who's using PS3s as a movie player or not. Just count the number of remotes sold for the PS3. What else are those remotes used for? Now, how do we find out how many remotes have been sold for the PS3?

I have the best way.

Assumptions:

1) People who collect movies are people who collect movies. Period.
2) People who don't collect movies don't collect them. Period.
3) Bd owners who collect movies are just as likely to purchase as HD-DVD owners and vice versa... there is no valid reason to assume otherwise.
4) Some PS3 owners do not have HD setups and therefore do not collect BD movies.
5) Some PS3 owners bought it for the games.
6) Some PS3 owners have an HD setup and DO collect movies.
7) PS3 owners in #6 are just as likely to collect movies as other blu-ray movie collectors... again, no real reason to assume otherwsie.

Conclusion: The attach rate for both formats is exactly the f***ing same. I don't know why this hard for people on both sides to grasp.

If you assume that the attach rate among avid movie buyers is the same then you can easily back into what % of PS3 owners are hardcore HD movie fans as well. This is the most logical conclusion and also the simplest. By debating the other points in the argument you give creedence to HD-DVD's stupid notion that there is some fundamental reason that the attach rates would be different.

Take this example: Let's say some idiot scientist claims that people in the UK breathe less Oxygen than folks in the U.S. He tries to "prove" this by taking readings of the % Oxygen content in the air. He finds that in the UK Oxygen is a higher % of the air content than in the U.S. and concludes that he is right. When challenged he concurs that there are other factors and begins spewing stats about those as well. The challengers then spew their opposing stats about those other factors too.... OK, you can see now the argument has already taken a ludicrous turn. The entire hypothesis is stupid and has no logical foundation. Furthermore the other factors are too nebulous, immeasurable and poorly defined to make sense... In our argument that would be the PS3 x-factor. The correct answer is why argue it at all... the premise is stupid on its face and the argument is unnecessary.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

If BD is taking their gloves off, those comments by the CEO were a bit bothersome (the "stalemate" conversation).

thoughts?

Foot in Gob moment!!! Maybe he was trying so sound reasonable and consilliatory... Silly decision what with the fanboys. He should have stuck the boot in.

[Grubert]

Germany hardware sales figures

Source: areadvd, citing data from Gfk

Here goes:

Since inception to September:

Blu-ray standalone players: 1,700
HD DVD standalone players: 6,000
Combo players: 130
PS3: 120,000
Xbox 360 add-ons: 10,000

Attach rates for Germany were:
HD DVD: 2.9 movies per player
Blu-ray: 0.6 movies per player

Attach Rate = Movies Sold / (Total hardware)

So going backwards we get:

HD DVD: 2.9 x (6000+10000) = 46400
Blu-ray: 0.6 x (1700+120000) = 73700

(61:39)

The above calculations do not count the dual-format players, but their effect would be negligible anyway.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by AikonEnt

Well if the PS3 doesn't count as a Blu player then the 20+ movies I have were bought for no reason other than to fill up shelf space.

Well I have 50+. Since my only means of watching them is a PS3, I'm sure I'm buying those just in anticipation of my eventual purchase of a dedicated player.

Or maybe I can claim an attach rate of infinity? (OK technically it's undefined not infinity, I hope we don't have a math major among us. )

(Gee, if they want to include "potential" players when calculating attach rates while ignoring them when quoting numbers of players, why don't they count all the DVD players in the world to calculate the DVD/DUD combo discs sold? After all, PS3 is not a "Blu-ray player" but good enough to be included in the attach rate calculation because it happens to be able to play those discs too, right? )

enjoy
gandalf

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by Grubert

Attach rates for Germany were:
HD DVD: 2.9 movies per player
Blu-ray: 0.6 movies per player

Attach Rate = Movies Sold / (Total hardware)

So going backwards we get:

HD DVD: 2.9 x (6000+10000) = 46400
Blu-ray: 0.6 x (1700+120000) = 73700

(61:39)

The above calculations do not count the dual-format players, but their effect would be negligible anyway.

No big deal, but the Blu-ray attach rate number seems to have only one significant figure so there's a fair amount of margin of error. Maybe you can make it a range with two assumptions: 0.55<=B<0.65 or 0.6<=B<0.7 (I don't think you need rounding up, I can't imagine them choosing a method that makes the Blu-ray number look better )?

enjoy
gandalf

[reiella]

Originally Posted by gand41f

Well I have 50+. Since my only means of watching them is a PS3, I'm sure I'm buying those just in anticipation of my eventual purchase of a dedicated player.

Or maybe I can claim an attach rate of infinity? (OK technically it's undefined not infinity, I hope we don't have a math major among us. )

(Gee, if they want to include "potential" players when calculating attach rates while ignoring them when quoting numbers of players, why don't they count all the DVD players in the world to calculate the DVD/DUD combo discs sold? After all, PS3 is not a "Blu-ray player" but good enough to be included in the attach rate calculation because it happens to be able to play those discs too, right? )

enjoy
gandalf

You can possibly make the argument that your attach-rate approaches infinity. Just have to redefine it in the form of an appropiate function.

Sure reading it as "As your blu-ray player approaches PS3, the attach rate approaches infinity" is kinda awkward to say, but hey .