The Anime Blu-ray Video Quality Thread

[vincentric]

Originally Posted by Naiera

No problem. Tonight.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by SeaFox

Not sure. I've already passed on Canaan because of the overly liberal official subs. TM 8.0 was a good series, but I saw it backed when it was airing and haven't had the urge to watch it since then -- mostly because of the sad ending. They are both on that list of 1080i releases, though.

Good to know.

Do screenshot comparisons for the Sentai dual volume vs complete releases of Fate Stay and Xam'd exist? Because I will soon have access to them and if not, I could provide some in this thread.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by SeaFox

Not sure. I've already passed on Canaan because of the overly liberal official subs.

Canaan is quite bad. Not as bad as that scene in the second ep of Penguindrum , but not acceptable at all.

[Sylontack]

I know screenshots were recently discussed in the Noir thread but I have a few questions.

So I'm using MPC to get my screenshots off my Penguindrum BDs, however one release has the episodes in individual files and another has all the episodes in one long file so I'm having a lot of trouble getting identical screenshots using the "go to" feature (I mean I did the math right, but the JP screenshots are always just a tiny bit after), they're also slightly different frame rates but I'm not sure how much that is hindering my attempts here.

I've collected all the time stamps and frame numbers (incl. rate) for the Siren Visual BD release of the screenshots, and now I just need to get them for the JP BD- I'm happy to restart if there's an easier way to make sure my screenshots are the same frame.

Could anyone who is semi-competent here possibly give me any tips? Is there a better way to do this or do I have to do this the long and hard way? (Also am I gathering them right through MPC's Save Image feature? My screenshots are only ~2mb each)

Thanks!

[Girls With Guns]

yes, I'd be interested in seeing any step by step processes to do proper comparative screen captures be posted up here too, as I've never really attempted to do this before. This would definitely be the proper thread to post that kind of stuff in...

And after that, I really want to delve into learning a good, proficient way to add subs to non-subbed Blu-rays, including burning them back out onto BD-R (no MKV files!) - I'm going to start in on that as my next hobby, lol...

[Sylontack]

Originally Posted by Girls With Guns

And after that, I really want to delve into learning a good, proficient way to add subs to non-subbed Blu-rays, including burning them back out onto BD-R (no MKV files!) - I'm going to start in on that as my next hobby, lol...

Me too! :P
Although I'd probably only do it for titles that already have BD subs laid out neatly for me. I really don't think I'd ever want to time and edit subs myself for something I'd like to enjoy watching- no thanks.

[Sylontack]

Excuse the double post but I figured this warranted being separated from the last post.
I gave up and got identical frames through a long process with lots of clicking...

Now before you look at these, I'm almost certain I've gotten something wrong here, as the images are only around 2mb and the colours are the same, which I was almost certain looking at a previous comparison that the Siren Visual release was slightly more subdued in colour... (AUS BD | JP BD THESE ARE NOT MY SCREENSHOTS! SOURCED FROM FANDOM POST)

These are screenshots all from Episode 18 (Disc 3 Siren Visual and Disc 6 Star Child) as it is a favourite of mine:

AUS BD | JP BD
AUS BD | JP BD (OP sequence)
AUS BD | JP BD (OP sequence)
AUS BD | JP BD (OP sequence)
AUS BD | JP BD
AUS BD | JP BD
AUS BD | JP BD
AUS BD | JP BD (ED sequence)


In hindsight it's a very darkly lit and rather visual episode so I should have maybe picked an episode or some frames where the AUS release may have let the bitrate slip a bit more because these are all close ups and credit shots. However I REALLY want to see how these screenshots compare with the recent 5 disc Blu-Ray boxset in Japan as I'd imagine it uses BD50s, providing a lot more space than all previous releases. Obviously both look much better in motion though.
Anyone who has suffered through the Sentai release will easily see that they should get the Siren release if they can play Region B

[vincentric]

For screen captures, hardware wise, I use an external, USB powered Pioneer BD drive connected to a GTX980/2600K PC.

Software wise, am cheap and everything I use costs $0.00 - MakeMKV for ripping (I know that most of you can skip the rip option), VLC for playback, Fraps for screenshots, and Flickr for hosting.

I use VLC's frame by frame setting to help pinpoint the exact frame. I manually count the frames, which is usually 24fps (I use VLC's inverse telecine to deinterlace 1080i material). To make sure I am capturing the same frame, I will compare the images with photo viewer and go back and adjust the frame accordingly if I see that they aren't identical.

I usually have my PC connected to either a Pioneer Kuro or Sony Bravia via HDMI, both are calibrated as close to perfect as I could get them. In the Nvidia control panel, I use RGB 16-235 for my BDs and DVDs, 0-255 will cause the BD and DVD image to look washed out.

Overall, the method that I use to take my comparisons isn't exactly the most elegant or efficient. Am sure that others have a better way of doing things. But this more hands on approach has served the perfectionist in me well at making sure the comparison shots I take are at the same frame.

Edit: I might take a few more comparisons between the UK and AoA versions of Fate Zero later on.

[Naiera]

The morons left almost 10 gigs unused



Looks a lot like a Viz disc

I'll post the stats later.

I didn't expect Aniplex numbers of course. Blue Exorcist has to be an exception.

[vincentric]

Thanks for sharing the UK SAO numbers, as usual, much appreciated. Blue Exorcist is indeed looking like the one and only exception, so far, which is better than nothing I suppose.

According to Fandom, the first volume of the AoA release (they reviewed the limited edition which am assuming will be the same as the upcoming standard edition just with different packaging) has two discs with four episodes located on the first disc and three on the second.

They don't provide raw data numbers but just going by previous AoA releases, they like to use around 7-8 GB per ep. That would put the first disc at around 28 GB, and the second one at around 21 sans any extras it may include.

If anyone with the first volume of the Aniplex copy of SOA can confirm that, that would be awesome.

[Z-95]

That is correct, the LE is split 4+3 on 2 discs. Not home to pop in the disc but here is the stats of episode 1:

General
Unique ID                                : 209856706628211248516052387953227042846 (0x9DE0EE78EB3CCDB481B59B27422B901E)
Complete name                            : M:\Anime\Sword Art Online (2012)\01 - The World of Swords.mkv
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4 / Version 2
File size                                : 6.43 GiB
Duration                                 : 23mn 42s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 38.8 Mbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2015-03-18 00:46:26
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v7.6.0 ('Garden of Dreams') 64bit built on Feb  8 2015 13:04:34
Writing library                          : libebml v1.3.1 + libmatroska v1.4.2
DURATION                                 : 00:23:31.743000000
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES                         : 940
NUMBER_OF_BYTES                          : 4324472
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP                  : mkvmerge v7.6.0 ('Garden of Dreams') 64bit built on Feb  8 2015 13:04:34
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC             : 2015-03-18 00:46:26
_STATISTICS_TAGS                         : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 23mn 42s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 23mn 42s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 640 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 109 MiB (2%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_PCM/INT/BIG
Duration                                 : 23mn 42s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Language                                 : Japanese
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Audio #3
ID                                       : 4
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 23mn 42s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 640 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 109 MiB (2%)
Title                                    : Commentary
Language                                 : Japanese
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #1
ID                                       : 5
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : The same subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Title                                    : Forced
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : Yes

Text #2
ID                                       : 6
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : The same subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #3
ID                                       : 7
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : The same subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Title                                    : Commentary
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Menu
00:00:00.000                             : en:Chapter 1
00:02:26.020                             : en:Chapter 2
00:11:02.995                             : en:Chapter 3
00:21:46.013                             : en:Chapter 4
00:23:15.977                             : en:Chapter 5
00:23:34.996                             : en:Chapter 6

Ripped the 4 eps together are 25.8GB.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by Girls With Guns

And after that, I really want to delve into learning a good, proficient way to add subs to non-subbed Blu-rays, including burning them back out onto BD-R (no MKV files!) - I'm going to start in on that as my next hobby, lol...

Originally Posted by Sylontack

Me too! :P
Although I'd probably only do it for titles that already have BD subs laid out neatly for me. I really don't think I'd ever want to time and edit subs myself for something I'd like to enjoy watching- no thanks.

You guys should head over to videohelp.com to read some guides and check out the forum. You might be using Windows, so what you are succesful with would probably be different from what I do on a Mac.

Sinthetic is the most awesomest person and collector in the world, so you could try asking him. Don't know if he's all about sharing his vast knowledge with the plebs though.

[Naiera]

Not too shabby for a non-Aniplex disc.

[Show spoiler]File size : 5.05 GiB
Duration : 23mn 40s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 30.5 Mbps
Movie name : Sword Art Online D1
Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-09 16:14:07
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.9.1 darwin(x86-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.9.1 (1.3.0/1.4.1) darwin(x86-release)

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 23mn 40s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Maximum bit rate : 35.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio #1
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Codec ID : A_PCM/INT/LIT
Duration : 23mn 40s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Title : Stereo
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Audio #2
ID : 3
Format : PCM
Codec ID : A_PCM/INT/LIT
Duration : 23mn 40s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Title : Stereo
Language : Japanese
Default : No
Forced : No

[vincentric]

Was able to take some comparisons between the Sentai 1080i (dual volume) and 1080p (complete set) versions of Fate Stay Night.

Sad to report that other than the interlacing (which is quite easy to deinterlace with VLC's inverse telecine), there is no difference. The banding, blocking and just overall fugliness looks even across the board. I read that the 1080p version was supposed to have an improved transfer, it doesn't, it's just as terrible. If anything, the 1080i set provides slightly higher data (a little over 4GB vs a little under 4) for most of the episodes. Very Disappointed:

01 - 1080i Dual Volume | 1080p Complete Set

02 - 1080i Dual Volume | 1080p Complete Set

03 - 1080i Dual Volume | 1080p Complete Set

04 - 1080i Dual Volume | 1080p Complete Set

If there was one small consolation prize to be had, the subtitle mistakes in the 1080i version have been fixed in the 1080p one:

05 - 1080i Dual Volume | 1080p Complete Set

Overall, felt like I wasted my money (broke even when I sold my 1080i discs but I paid slightly more for the 1080p set), had I known this beforehand, I would've just held on to my 1080i copy.

[Naiera]

Well, I'm not in too much of a rush to get the set now

Really wish Kaze would do a UK release now.

[vincentric]

Definitely take your time, I'd say wait for it to hit the $20-30 bargain bin price range.

Was able to compare some Xam'd, no screenies yet but from just quickly eyeballing the images, I can see a difference this time around between the two releases, even if only slightly.

I'll capture some images in a short while.

[vincentric]

After taking a closer look at the two Sentai releases of Xam'd Lost Memories - the older dual volume release with the VC-1 codec, and the more recent complete collection with MPEG-4 AVC codec, I don't think am even going to bother posting screenshot comparisons.

Long story short, similar to my previous findings with Fate Stay Night, both releases of Xam'd seem to have been coded by inept monkeys.

To go into a little more detail, the dual volume release has banding and severe compression blocking issues.

The complete collection retains the banding but does alleviate the compression with a higher data rate (around 4gb per ep compared to around 3gb per in the dual volume release) which results in noticeably less macroblocking. Yay, right? Nope, not quite...

Some of the episodes in the complete collection, 22 and 26 (there are probably more eps affected but I was too disgusted to keep on checking), suffer from an incorrect brightness setting making those episodes look worse than the dual volume counterpart in spite of the higher bit rate advantage. Just wow.

Am about ready to throw both releases into the rubbish bin.

[Naiera]

Blu-ray is nine years old and we still see shit like this. Incredible. (Yes, I know that Xam'd is rather old ).

Of course, anime DVDs were and are still hopelessly inept. But why put any effort into it when only 1% of us even notice anything wrong?

[vincentric]

Yeah, you'd think they'd learn from past mistakes by now but nope, same old, same old.

And before permanently deleting Xam'd, thought I'd go ahead and post some comparisons.

Complete collection has reduced compression blocking (it's a subtle difference but still noticeable) thanks to higher data rate, but the banding remains the same:

01 - VC-1 Dual Volume Set | MPEG-4 AVC Complete Collection

02 - VC-1 Dual Volume Set | MPEG-4 AVC Complete Collection

The complete set would be the winner but its brightness in some of the episodes is all jacked up:

03 - VC-1 Dual Volume Set | MPEG-4 AVC Complete Collection

04 - VC-1 Dual Volume Set | MPEG-4 AVC Complete Collection

05 - VC-1 Dual Volume Set | MPEG-4 AVC Complete Collection

Did AoA or any other region release a higher quality Blu-ray for Xam'd? I would've paid a higher price if so.

[Naiera]

I received Student Council's Discretion today and had the disc in the drive to read the disc ID anyway, so I figured I'd run it through MakeMKV as well.

Unlike Maoyu, which was my first Sentai one-disc'er, where the eps were 2.6 gigs each, these eps are 3.5 each. I didn't bother checking Non Non Biyori when I received it a few weeks ago, but at least Student Council's Discretion shows some sort of progress for silly Sentai.

[vincentric]

Originally Posted by Naiera

I received Student Council's Discretion today and had the disc in the drive to read the disc ID anyway, so I figured I'd run it through MakeMKV as well.

Unlike Maoyu, which was my first Sentai one-disc'er, where the eps were 2.6 gigs each, these eps are 3.5 each. I didn't bother checking Non Non Biyori when I received it a few weeks ago, but at least Student Council's Discretion shows some sort of progress for silly Sentai.

Well, that's good to know, progress is good.

I was able to briefly check out the UK release of Blue Exorcist last night. Preliminary thoughts is that it looks good! I checked in areas where blocking and banding would be most visible such as darkly lit scenes and around areas where light casts shadows, and it was difficult to spot very little if any. In short, it's looking a lot like an AoA copy (but at the fraction of the cost)!

I also spot checked all 6 discs in the collection, long story short, each episode is given a little over 7 GB of breathing room, the entire show (25 episodes including OVA) is nearing 200GB! Very nice.

I noticed that there is a review of the AoA version of Blue Exorcist posted on this site with screenshots. Similar to what am planning with Bodacious, I'll try using those shots as a starting point for some comparison images.