How to introduce Star Wars ?

[Samus Aran]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

When you were a teenager, did you routinely watch "old movies" that were made decades before you were born? If you say "yes", you're a liar.

I didn't actively seek out Citizen Kane, Psycho or Easy Rider when I was a kid, but doesn't watching the Wizard of Oz, Mary Poppins, The Sound of Music, 20000 Leagues Under the Sea, The Shaggy Dog and a bunch of animated Disney movies over and over again count?

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Yeah, I knew it was coming, haha. It runs the same gamut every time-- a bunch of people use the opportunity to trash-talk to the prequels/Special Editions again, and then you have the other side trash-talk the trash-talkers in a giant extra salty stew of nerd rage

I've seen this question asked tons of times "I'm introducing someone to Star Wars what should I watch first?" And it always leads to this childish nonsense. I'm sure anyone who has seen Star Wars already has an opinion of what order / versions to watch first. This thread is Message Board Trolling 101 stuff.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

I've seen this question asked tons of times "I'm introducing someone to Star Wars what should I watch first?" And it always leads to this childish nonsense. I'm sure anyone who has seen Star Wars already has an opinion of what order / versions to watch first. This thread is Message Board Trolling 101 stuff.

Yup, likely. There's only a few combinations to watch them in anyway that makes sense, and they all have some arguable merits.

1) Release order..
2) Episode order.
3) Machete Order.

Pick either the Despecialized or Blu-Rays for the OT.

THE END.

[Megalith]

Worrying this much about trying to get other people to like the same things you do.

[Talleyrand]

Originally Posted by segagamer12

ignore ALL the haters and just watch them in the numerical order. Despite what some fans with baggage will tell you, that is the order Lucas intends people to watch them as he intentionally designed the prequels to fit in that way.

Lucas is kind of an idiot and a hack though, so what he thinks is best really, really isn't.

Originally Posted by 42041

Whatever Lucas intends, Star Wars '77 absolutely did not anticipate the overall plot arc of the series, and I think it's best introduced without the clumsy retconning of the subsequent films.

Originally Posted by 42041

We're not talking about novelizations, we're talking about the films. Star Wars is a lean, self-contained adventure movie - how someone would think it plays best after the distended mythologizing of the prequels is beyond me.

AMEN!!

It's a damn fine film in it's own right, and does deserve to be placed on the greatest lists and be put in registries so it is not lost in 200 years. Unfortunately, unlike other such films (say, On the Waterfront or The Bridge on the River Kwai or The Seventh Seal or To Live and Die in L.A.) they couldn't leave well enough alone and now it's an amorphous blob.

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by segagamer12

ignore ALL the haters and just watch them in the numerical order. Despite what some fans with baggage will tell you, that is the order Lucas intends people to watch them as he intentionally designed the prequels to fit in that way.

Even if they already know Vader is Luke's dad it won't make a difference one way or the other the movies are all great all seven of them. And as has been mentioned already, they are not going to care about the changes made because unless you point them out they won't even know and if you don't ruin it for them by pointing them out they might not even care. In fact they won't care anyways because they weren't alive in '77 to be traumatized by the owner of his own imagination using his own money to improve a product me made by pouring his own blood, sweat, and years into because they imagined in their own minds he was a fairy godmother sent from heaven to bestow upon them magical pleasures or whatever nonsense is going on in their senile minds.

I'd have said the same some time ago, but considering that the prequels are very badly acted they might be a turn-off for some, the old trilogy while not exactly stellar in that sense is better.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Talleyrand

Lucas is kind of an idiot and a hack though, so what he thinks is best really, really isn't.

AMEN!!

It's a damn fine film in it's own right, and does deserve to be placed on the greatest lists and be put in registries so it is not lost in 200 years. Unfortunately, unlike other such films (say, On the Waterfront or The Bridge on the River Kwai or The Seventh Seal or To Live and Die in L.A. they couldn't leave well enough alone and now it's an amorphous blob.

What hogwash. In one post you vilify George Lucas, then elevate his film to icon status. Lucas is a talented film-maker and a savvy businessman. Whatever missteps he is perceived to have taken vis-a-vis the special editions and / or prequels cannot dilute the fact that this man created two of the greatest movie franchises of all time. When it comes to Star Wars, people just have some major freaking issues with dealing with the fact they're just movies.

[Talleyrand]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

What hogwash. In one post you vilify George Lucas, then elevate his film to icon status. Lucas is a talented film-maker and a savvy businessman. Whatever missteps he is perceived to have taken vis-a-vis the special editions and / or prequels cannot dilute the fact that this man created two of the greatest movie franchises of all time. When it comes to Star Wars, people just have some major freaking issues with dealing with the fact they're just movies.

In one post I called George Lucas "kind of an idiot and a hack" which is entirely justified, as he is reponsible for the special editions, and the prequels, not to mention Howard the Duck and Red Tails and so on. Yet I can acknowledge he made the one great film, A New Hope; I am admitting this is quite a great film right now, I often do not because I know what Lucas did after, but I'll be honest. Yeah, it's great. Whether that's because he had people helping him and calling him off the more stupid ideas, or he got lucky, or he used all his talent in one shot, I don't know, but it's definitely an anomoly. He is indeed a savvy businessman; he's arguably a brilliant businessman; I don't think anyone would dispute that.

Neither Star Wars nor Indiana Jones is a top ten franchise of all time in my opinion, so I can dispute that "fact," whether or not I am even considering the prequels. One great movie is a great movie, not a great franchise, for instance I also consider the Friday the 13th and A Nightmare on Elm Street franchises to be much greater than either Halloween or The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, despite the fact that the originals in the latter two franchises are infinitely superior to any individual film within the former two franchises, imo. As for Indiana Jones, actually I may be wrong, that may be top 10, as the more I think about it, the fewer great franchises there are actually are. I will have to give this more thought some time; either way, I do agree Indiana Jones is great but that is not what is under discussion here.

I agree with the last sentence but it's a double-edged sword so be careful how you use it.

[Zillamon51]

No one ever as asks which Bond or Batman or Friday the 13th they should start with. But showing someone Star Wars is treated like it's a religious rite of passage, passing on some sacred tradition or something. It's space movies for f***s sake. Like anything, you go in release order, as it was introduced to the world. And you watch every movie, you don't skip the ones you personally don't like, because it isn't about you, asswipe. And you show them the best officially available version, the same Blu-ray they themselves can walk into a store and buy, not some ersatz bootleg downloaded from the net. Keep your personal nerd baggage out of it.

Original Trilogy -> Prequel Trilogy -> The Force Awakens. Then take them to the theater to see Rogue One when it comes out.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Zillamon51

And you show them the best officially available version, the same Blu-ray they themselves can walk into a store and buy, not some ersatz bootleg downloaded from the net. Keep your personal nerd baggage out of it.

The movies as they were originally made are "ersatz"? Curious ideas you've got there.

[dgoswald]

I'd personally introduce Star Wars to a newcomer in the following way:

20th Century Fox Flute Version | HQ - YouTube

[Nightopian]

I would go in the order they were released.

EP 4 - 6 then EP 1 -3 and finish up with EP 7 - A Newer Hope.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by doctor_who

What the heck is wrong with some of you guys? Nobody just being introduced into Star Wars now is going to care about your darn de-specialized editions. You really have to bring it up for everything? Jeez louise. They won't care! They will never care, even if you described the issues to them! They would probably even think you were crazy for talking about it!

But--

But "Jedi Rocks" is genuinely bad.

It is just so bad...

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

But--

But "Jedi Rocks" is genuinely bad.

It is just so bad...

Agreed; its the one change which bugs me the most...even more than Han vs. Greedo. The artistry of "Jedi Rocks" was a good technical achievement, but it completely stops the film in its tracks. Quite simply, there was no need for it.

[Gaius Marius]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I'll take The Phantom Menace over Attack of the Clones anyday. The Phantom Menace catches a lot of grief, but there's glimmers of joy in that movie.

Agreed. TPM still catches all of the flack (old habits die hard I guess?), but AotC is the only "bad" movie (though I still find parts enjoyable). I actually like TPM (Jar Jar is the only part that really makes me cringe), though only half of AotC is watchable (basically any time Obi-Wan and/or Jango Fett are on screen. If Anakin and Padme are on screen, look away and cover your ears).

On topic, I agree with the order of 4-6, 1-3, 7.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Talleyrand

Yes, seriously. Unfortunately I nearly got banned for not liking The Empire Strikes Back enough in another thread so I'm hesitant to go into too much detail, or frankly even post here at all, but yes.

If someone hasn't seen Star Wars, it's not because it's an "old movie"; there are certain exceptions to the general "fear of 'old movies' " that many people have; for instance, James Bond and Star Wars. Actually, the might be just about it; I would say Hitchcock films but many people are afraid of black-and-white.

Anyways, if someone hasn't Star Wars, it's not because it's an "old movie"; it's because they are genuinely uninterested in films like that, by and large. Which is fair enough; no one has to like everything. That being said, I would say A New Hope is the one film in the franchise that achieves greatness and would likely be enjoyed by anyone, even a non-sci-fi/fantasy/genre fan. Also, Rogue One looks to be easily the best since A New Hope, if not the best period, and it's story as I understand it is a direct tie to A New Hope so storyline-wise nothing is missing.

Its cool bro - I wasnt hatin on ya, just curious. Your explanation makes sense even if I disagree with it. And, to be honest, Empire is probably my least favorite of the films. I still like it because Im a SW nut but its not anywhere near my fav.

Agreed that A New Hope is a perfect stand-alone film and can be enjoyed by just about anyone. For the most part.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Talleyrand

In one post I called George Lucas "kind of an idiot and a hack" which is entirely justified, as he is reponsible for the special editions, and the prequels, not to mention Howard the Duck and Red Tails and so on. Yet I can acknowledge he made the one great film, A New Hope; I am admitting this is quite a great film right now, I often do not because I know what Lucas did after, but I'll be honest. Yeah, it's great. Whether that's because he had people helping him and calling him off the more stupid ideas, or he got lucky, or he used all his talent in one shot, I don't know, but it's definitely an anomoly. He is indeed a savvy businessman; he's arguably a brilliant businessman; I don't think anyone would dispute that.

Neither Star Wars nor Indiana Jones is a top ten franchise of all time in my opinion, so I can dispute that "fact," whether or not I am even considering the prequels. One great movie is a great movie, not a great franchise, for instance I also consider the Friday the 13th and A Nightmare on Elm Street franchises to be much greater than either Halloween or The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, despite the fact that the originals in the latter two franchises are infinitely superior to any individual film within the former two franchises, imo. As for Indiana Jones, actually I may be wrong, that may be top 10, as the more I think about it, the fewer great franchises there are actually are. I will have to give this more thought some time; either way, I do agree Indiana Jones is great but that is not what is under discussion here.

I agree with the last sentence but it's a double-edged sword so be careful how you use it.

Setting aside anybody's personal preferences (myself included) George Lucas is creatively involved in not only Star Wars but also Empire Strikes Back, which is generally regarded as better than Star Wars, as well as Raiders of the Lost Ark and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Films like Jedi, Temple of Doom and Willow have also been well received, not to mention American Graffiti and THX-1138. He is not a hack and considering he has amassed a billion dollar fortune for himself though his creative and business interests, he's certainly not an idiot either and dismissing him as such because of a dislike for the prequels and / or special editions is nothing more than petulance.

[segagamer12]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Setting aside anybody's personal preferences (myself included) George Lucas is creatively involved in not only Star Wars but also Empire Strikes Back, which is generally regarded as better than Star Wars, as well as Raiders of the Lost Ark and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Films like Jedi, Temple of Doom and Willow have also been well received, not to mention American Graffiti and THX-1138. He is not a hack and considering he has amassed a billion dollar fortune for himself though his creative and business interests, he's certainly not an idiot either and dismissing him as such because of a dislike for the prequels and / or special editions is nothing more than petulance.

I agree with this. I also agree with watching the movies in numeric order for someone who wasn't around or missed the hype during the original releases because they make better viewing that way.

ANd to fan the flames of the haters who shat on my personal opinions a few posts back, I actually DO prefer and own all of the original unaltered releases and I DO believe that the original film is a masterpiece that can stand on it's own. What I don't do is hate George Lucas for making changes to HIS OWN CREATION, based on his own logic. You know why, because it's his damn creation he can do whatever the hell he wants. This notion he, or the studio, has some imaginary obligation to preserve historical context or whatever is pure bullshit. If Disney, Fox, Or Lucas decided at any time whenever they were in control to lock the damn films in a vault and NEVER release them again to the public it is their legal right to do so. You, me, your crazy obsessed fan relative, nobody has a right to tell the content creator what to do with their creation.

I hope to GOD Disney keeps the tradition going and does a Special Edition for the Prequels, the new movies, and even makes more tweaks to the OT just to keep the tradition going because let's face it the "original" Star Wars has NEVER BEEN SEEN by anyone EVER since it's original theatrical run since it has been tinkered with every single re-release since 1978. This myth that there is some imaginary "standard" version of Star Wars every fan is obligated to see is a fairy tale concocted by bitter old men who hate change and have faulty memories.

[Talleyrand]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Setting aside anybody's personal preferences (myself included) George Lucas is creatively involved in not only Star Wars but also Empire Strikes Back, which is generally regarded as better than Star Wars, as well as Raiders of the Lost Ark and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Films like Jedi, Temple of Doom and Willow have also been well received, not to mention American Graffiti and THX-1138. He is not a hack and considering he has amassed a billion dollar fortune for himself though his creative and business interests, he's certainly not an idiot either and dismissing him as such because of a dislike for the prequels and / or special editions is nothing more than petulance.

Yes, I am fully aware that Empire is generally considered the equal, if not the superior, of A New Hope. I happen to strongly disagree. I don't know how much creative control he had on the Indiana films, but fair enough, it may well have been lots. The last good one came out in 1989. I'm looking at George's filmography right now, and it's been uniformaly terrible since. I'm not one to dismiss someone for not being as good as they used to (I am a big De Niro fan, after all), but that's an awfully long time, especially since I'm not all that big a fan of his "good" work anyways. Furthermore, in the post-1989 period, his most obvious "contribution" to cinema has been the prequels. Yes, I am aware they have their defenders, and I am aware some people like them. I don't. I hated them when they came out and I hate them now. It's fair to say Lucas had effectively complete creative control over them, and, yeah, I'll say that they appear to be the work of hack, much like I can say a movie like The Love Guru is the work of a hack.

I have acknowledged his business brilliance, he may be a smart businessman, that does not make him a smart filmmaker, which is what is under discussion here (i.e., I would not refer to him as an idiot in the context of the Forbes message boards). You call it petulance; I call it calling a spade a spade.

Originally Posted by segagamer12

ANd to fan the flames of the haters who shat on my personal opinions a few posts back, I actually DO prefer and own all of the original unaltered releases and I DO believe that the original film is a masterpiece that can stand on it's own. What I don't do is hate George Lucas for making changes to HIS OWN CREATION, based on his own logic. You know why, because it's his damn creation he can do whatever the hell he wants. This notion he, or the studio, has some imaginary obligation to preserve historical context or whatever is pure bullshit. If Disney, Fox, Or Lucas decided at any time whenever they were in control to lock the damn films in a vault and NEVER release them again to the public it is their legal right to do so. You, me, your crazy obsessed fan relative, nobody has a right to tell the content creator what to do with their creation.

Completely agree. The films were his property at the time he ruined them and he was free to do what he liked. The films are now Disney's property (afaik) and Disney is free to do with them what it likes.

That doesn't mean I have to like it. I'm not sure where the confusion is here, honestly.

[42041]

Originally Posted by segagamer12

Star Wars has NEVER BEEN SEEN by anyone EVER since it's original theatrical run since it has been tinkered with every single re-release since 1978. This myth that there is some imaginary "standard" version of Star Wars every fan is obligated to see is a fairy tale concocted by bitter old men who hate change and have faulty memories.

The changes made before the SEs, the 2004 DVDs and blu-rays were trivial details, not brand new scenes.