Hannah Lee AKA Outlaw Territory 3D Blu-ray (1953) [Region Free] [BD-R]

[TM2-Megatron]

Well, I guess that's the end of that thread. I sincerely hope Wade Williams decides to play ball, however I suspect that we won't see any of his titles restored on Blu-Ray while he still controls them.

[BleedOrange11]

From the sound of it, we could have already seen Invaders from Mars on Blu-ray via Criterion, his entire library being rolled out by Kino, and Hannah Lee 3D funded via Kickstarter. It's amazing to me that he wouldn't pull the trigger on any of those deals.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by revgen

Looking at the recent storm in the HTF thread, I've developed two theories.

1) The negatives for Hannah Lee are in an awful state right now. Whether this is the result of Jack Broder or Wade Williams himself is not clear. Wade is pointing the finger at Broder.

2) Wade doesn't have "legit" offers from other distributors as he claims. If he did, he wouldn't be ranting and raving on a public forum and saying things like "I'm not going to spend $20,000 so a bunch of collectors can see a film before they die". Those "bunch of collectors" are the market that a distributor is targeting if they decide to license his material. Insulting these collectors isn't helping his negotiating position with a distributor, which makes me believe that he's not negotiating with anybody.


Outside of those two theories, it also concerns me that Wade is continuing to talk about releasing his films on DVD. DVD is no longer the "collectors medium" anymore. The DVD format will be turning 20 years old this November. Most of these collectors have HDTV's and will not pay Twilight Time prices for his films if they come out on DVD. Blu-Ray or UHD is the format to release to these collectors. Wade is apparently behind the eight ball again. Just as he was when he told Bob that he'd release his 3-D films in anaglyph.

That sums it up.

[TM2-Megatron]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

From the sound of it, we could have already seen Invaders from Mars on Blu-ray via Criterion, his entire library being rolled out by Kino, and Hannah Lee 3D funded via Kickstarter. It's amazing to me that he wouldn't pull the trigger on any of those deals.

That's what convinces me that he doesn't particularly care about film at all; just profit and expanding his "collection". He's already apparently passed on the very best parties that could have released his library. There are no better production houses out there putting out Blu-Rays, and I just can't imagine that they weren't offering him a very fair profit margin on each title.

If we do ever get any of his films released on Blu-ray, I suspect they'll likely be inferior or upconverted transfers put out by third or fourth string companies who are small enough that Wade was able to successfully bully them into giving into every one of his demands. I certainly won't be buying any such releases, as I'm very picky about who I do business with; and people who show contempt for their customers don't make the cut. What Wade fails to realize is that even if he's able to bully smaller company into getting the exact deal he wants, he's still likely to make less since an inferior product isn't going to sell nearly as well as the kind of superior product that Kino, the 3-D Film Archive, or Criterion are likely to put out.

[BleedOrange11]

Originally Posted by TM2-Megatron

That's what convinces me that he doesn't particularly care about film at all; just profit and expanding his "collection". He's already apparently passed on the very best parties that could have released his library. There are no better production houses out there putting out Blu-Rays, and I just can't imagine that they weren't offering him a very fair profit margin on each title.

He sounds like someone who hasn't yet upgraded to Blu-ray, and is perfectly content with the quality of DVD, and dare I say, VHS resolution and anaglyph 3D. He keeps repeating that all of his films are already available but doesn't understand that to everyone else in the thread, "available" means restored in HD with OAR on a Blu-ray, ready to purchase. There's nothing inherently wrong with that mindset, as long as you aren't in the business of film preservation. Anyway, I hope his other offers work out but am not holding my breath on Hannah Lee, which is the main one that interests me.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by TM2-Megatron

Well, I guess that's the end of that thread.

Yeah. Some wonderful posts therein by bright minds and lucid thinkers who really care about saving films. Bob F. only went public as a last resort, after years of frustration with private negotiations and in the hope that public discourse would lead to saving the film. So Mike Frezon shuts it down. Typical.

Originally Posted by TM2-Megatron

I sincerely hope Wade Williams decides to play ball, however I suspect that we won't see any of his titles restored on Blu-Ray while he still controls them.

Perhaps Bob F. can keep us informed of further developments in this thread, if any, although I suspect there won't be.

[bavanut]

I do not know Mike Frezon. Perhaps he is a fine man, fair in most of his dealings. But I personally find it very galling that he chose to shut down the thread in the way that he did. Does he mean to single out my friend Bob for particular rebuke? Then let him rebuke me too, since I stand behind and support every comment Bob made in that thread. Letting films rot is shameful. Cavalier dismissal of sincere pleas by concerned fans is shameful. A disingenuous and insincere person with no appropriate sense of responsibility or stewardship is shameful, and his defenders ought to be ashamed. But speaking the truth boldly, as Bob has always done and continues to do, is glorious.

[BleedOrange11]

Thank you, Bob for your perseverance in trying to save Hannah Lee and Wade Williams' other 3D films. I can't even imagine how offensive and frustrating that process has been. Good luck in future deals, and I hope your other clients are friendlier to deal with.

[Interdimensional]

Originally Posted by bavanut

I do not know Mike Frezon. Perhaps he is a fine man, fair in most of his dealings. But I personally find it very galling that he chose to shut down the thread in the way that he did. Does he mean to single out my friend Bob for particular rebuke? Then let him rebuke me too, since I stand behind and support every comment Bob made in that thread. Letting films rot is shameful. Cavalier dismissal of sincere pleas by concerned fans is shameful. A disingenuous and insincere person with no appropriate sense of responsibility or stewardship is shameful, and his defenders ought to be ashamed. But speaking the truth boldly, as Bob has always done and continues to do, is glorious.

It was very discouraging to see the thread go down the way it did. I hate to see all this drama and bitterness when things could easily have been very different. I think Wade was certainly dealing with quite a hostile reaction from many members (although politely expressed for the most part), but I don't think that it was having the intended effect. Without knowing the man, I feared his response would be to dig his heels in and become further entrenched in positions that benefit no one.

Perhaps I expressed undue deference in my comments in that thread, I was thinking more of the outcome than blame and shame. I saw it as somewhat akin to a hostage negotiation.

I would've preferred to see the thread remain open, but others had been asking for it to be locked. I think the policy on HTF is they like to make studio representatives and insiders feel welcome and insulate them from an onslaught of criticism (deserved or not). I don't think Mike was siding against Bob.

Things could've been very different indeed. I don't know what it would've taken for Mr Williams to appreciate the exciting opportunities that were being extended to him.

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

From the sound of it, we could have already seen Invaders from Mars on Blu-ray via Criterion, his entire library being rolled out by Kino, and Hannah Lee 3D funded via Kickstarter. It's amazing to me that he wouldn't pull the trigger on any of those deals.

what might have been. Baffling situation.

[Robert Furmanek]

Well, I tried my best.

After four years of failure and roadblocks in our personal communication, I felt there was nothing to lose by making the offer public and allowing people to see the frustrating process in trying to deal with him.

Very, very sad...

[BleedOrange11]

Originally Posted by Interdimensional

It was very discouraging to see the thread go down the way it did. I hate to see all this drama and bitterness when things could easily have been very different. I think Wade was certainly dealing with quite a hostile reaction from many members (although politely expressed for the most part), but I don't think that it was having the intended effect. Without knowing the man, I feared his response would be to dig his heels in and become further entrenched in positions that benefit no one.

I agree, Wade, like most humans, probably has a strong desire to feel important and like his contribution to the world and cinema has mattered a great deal. Having a host of fans criticize his actions, both politely and impolitely, deservedly and undeservedly, sometimes had the opposite effect and did not help Hannah Lee's cause. Still, as mentioned earlier, that thread was a last-ditch effort, and at least 2-3 good offers were extended to him. It's regrettable it ended that way.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by Robert Furmanek

Well, I tried my best.

After four years of failure and roadblocks in our personal communication, I felt there was nothing to lose by making the offer public and allowing people to see the frustrating process in trying to deal with him.

Very, very sad...

It is sad. Sad that the films are allowed to deteriorate. Sad that the steward of those films does not know his duty to art. Sad that the films will not be released to the public. It's excruciating to think about. But you've done all you can in good faith and with admirable professionalism. Don't let it drag you down when there are so many other good things on your plate.

Originally Posted by bavanut

I do not know Mike Frezon. Perhaps he is a fine man, fair in most of his dealings. But I personally find it very galling that he chose to shut down the thread in the way that he did. Does he mean to single out my friend Bob for particular rebuke? Then let him rebuke me too, since I stand behind and support every comment Bob made in that thread. Letting films rot is shameful. Cavalier dismissal of sincere pleas by concerned fans is shameful. A disingenuous and insincere person with no appropriate sense of responsibility or stewardship is shameful, and his defenders ought to be ashamed. But speaking the truth boldly, as Bob has always done and continues to do, is glorious.

Eloquently expressed. I was surprised at the candor and confrontational tone of the thread and by the fact that it was allowed in the first place. It didn't start out that way; Mike Ballew the thread starter and Bob Furmanek were always civil and constructive in their posts. For the record, Mike Frezon is not "a fine man." He is habitually unfair and done many galling things to good & loyal members of HTF. Perhaps this is the first time one of his bans / shutdowns / suspensions / thread deletions has touched you personally. Being the moderator is the only authority he has, so he likes to show off. In all fairness to Frezon, the semi-illiterate Robert Crawford is even worse. Like Ronald Epstein, the site owner, they are star-struck, gushing movie fans and that discussion was over their collective head. They view things in simplistic terms. Getting the press release, the free screener discs, the invitational screenings and gifts to giveaway, the studio tour and the annual Q & A are more important to them than whether or not a vintage film is restored or a proper transfer is released.

[TM2-Megatron]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

I agree, Wade, like most humans, probably has a strong desire to feel important and like his contribution to the world and cinema has mattered a great deal. Having a host of fans criticize his actions, both politely and impolitely, deservedly and undeservedly, sometimes had the opposite effect and did not help Hannah Lee's cause. Still, as mentioned earlier, that thread was a last-ditch effort, and at least 2-3 good offers were extended to him. It's regrettable it ended that way.

I don't think Wade's problem is that he wants to feel important, but rather that he's inflated his own sense of self-importance to unrealistic proportions. The impression that I'm under is that in the earlier days of his career of apparently being independently wealthy and buying film rights, he had a lot of people sucking up to him/bowing to his wishes/etc because of the film rights he owned, and also because that's the way it worked back then in Hollywood. Today, the public has a lot more expectations, and people like studio heads or rights owners, while still important, have to answer to a lot more people than they once did and take a lot more criticism, and so on.

Unfortunately, Wade's arrogance and massive ego are probably going to prevent any of us from enjoying his titles in HD quality for quite a while. His "me, me, me" and "my way or the highway" approach simply don't work in business today.

Personally, unless he does play ball with the companies who can give his catalog the releases they deserve, I'm not going to be purchasing any Blu-Ray releases of his collection (assuming there are any, of which I'm highly skeptical) while he's still profiting from them. I'm very picky about where my hard-earned money goes, and none of it's going to a person like that.

[cinerama]

Well, if Hannah Lee, Robot Monster and Cat Women of the Moon are ever released on Blu-ray in 3D and the 3D sucks, we can all leave comments on the internet about how good the 3D could have been if 3D Film Archive had done the restoration.

[Robert Furmanek]

Having located and recombined separate left/right 35mm prints of all three titles, I am very familiar with the stereo cinematography and can say this much:

The 3-D staging is for the most part very good BUT - the films are riddled with baked-in alignment and sizing errors which we can now easily fix.

If somehow Wade gets a deal and they go out "as is" from raw scans of his elements, the results will be very poor and headache-inducing.

[xianxian]

we should suggest Wade to do a kickstarter

[cinerama]

Originally Posted by Robert Furmanek

Having located and recombined separate left/right 35mm prints of all three titles, I am very familiar with the stereo cinematography and can say this much:

The 3-D staging is for the most part very good BUT - the films are riddled with baked-in alignment and sizing errors which we can now easily fix.

If somehow Wade gets a deal and they go out "as is" from raw scans of his elements, the results will be very poor and headache-inducing.

If any of his titles are announced to be released in 3D, we could bombard him with requests to have 3D Film Archive do the restorations - mention the above problems that need to fixed.

[BleedOrange11]

Originally Posted by xianxian

we should suggest Wade to do a kickstarter

Robert Harris laid out a proposal involving Kickstarter in the HTF thread.

[Richard--W]

I thought the HTF thread was closed? would you send the link?

[the13thman]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

I thought the HTF thread was closed? would you send the link?

It is closed, and very rudely too I might add (not to mention the shameful book plug at the end):

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/comm...348711/page-14

But the discussion continues here...

Originally Posted by cinerama

If any of his titles are announced to be released in 3D, we could bombard him with requests to have 3D Film Archive do the restorations - mention the above problems that need to fixed.

You'd need to bombard whoever paid him because once he's paid, as long as he gets his credit he just doesn't care what gets put out. He's said as much.