Resolutions of the Source vs Resolution of the Digital Intermediate

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by nick4amber

Every. Single. UHD. Blu-ray. Is. 4K. Resolution.

It's. Not. That. Simple. And. You. Know. It.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

I was just wondering ... (about) real 4K ...

My reaction to the Opening Post: (I'm only 4 hours late to this party)

[legends of beyond]

A 4K DI isn't the end all be all of the format. The Last Jedi, a native 4K disc, isn't as good looking as something like Pacific Rim, an upscaled disc. There's more to 4K than 4K.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

You're supposed to take the average. If a movie was shot at 8K but finished at 2K, it's actually 5K. But if a movie was shot at 3.4K but finished at 4K, it's actually 3.7K. This is the secret they're not telling the public. #thetruthisoutthere #iwanttobelieve

[legends of beyond]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It's. Not. That. Simple. And. You. Know. It.

Maybe. UHD. Isn't. As. Simple. As. Resolution.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by legends of beyond

Maybe. UHD. Isn't. As. Simple. As. Resolution.

UHD is 3.75K

Film resolution varies between film stock (and the year the stock was created as film resolution has been improved slowly through it's hundred year+ lifespan) (a quick formula: every 60 years 2x), film elements (original camera negative -> interpositive copy -> internegative copy, etc) (example: lets say the exposed negative resolves 70c/mm detail, the intermediates will lose a lot of it with each copy stage, etc), and format size: Silent/S-35, Academy, Widescreen 35mm Anamorphic, 70mm, etc) (example on two 2.39 shaped formats: Super-35 is about 10mm x 24mm, 35mm Anamorphic is 17.5mm x 21mm (equivalent to a 12.4mm x 29.6mm flat format)

Digital resolution is a little plastic as resizing changes the pixel spread function™ (Scaling can result in less resolution https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...9#post12119619 )


I would do it like something like this, substituting the first term for the film format(s) if applicable (Super-35 / 70mm, etc)

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

*


* Sorry- I can't let it pass unworshipped (there's a clause in my contract).

BTW, there's no Super Technirama; it's just** Technirama.


** Just? Who am I kidding?! It's GLORIOUS!***

*** As they say in old Blighty, I'll get me coat.

Anamorphic VistaVision

I had this old list somewhere handy


▪ Davy (1957)
▪ Escapade in Japan (1957)
▪ It Happened in Rome (1957)
▪ Legend of the Lost (1957)
▪ The Monte Carlo Story (1957)
▪ Night Passage (1957)
▪ Sayonara (1957)
▪ Anna of Brooklyn (1958)
▪ Auntie Mame (1958)
▪ The Big Country (1958)
▪ Les Misérables (1958)
▪ The Love Specialist (1958)
▪ The Naked Maja (1958)
▪ Paris Holiday (1958)
▪ Seven Hills of Rome (1958)
▪ Tempest (1958)
▪ This Angry Age (1958)
▪ The Vikings (1958)
▪ For the First Time (1959)
▪ Honeymoon (1959)
▪ John Paul Jones (1959)
▪ The Miracle (1959)
▪ Il padrone delle ferriere (1959)
▪ Sleeping Beauty (1959) 21 x 36 mm 2.55
▪ Solomon and Sheba (1959)
▪ Winter Holidays (1959)
▪ World by Night (1959)
▪ Black Tights (1960)
▪ Blood and Roses (1960)
▪ Carthage in Flames (1960)
▪ The Grass Is Greener (1960)
▪ Messalina (1960)
▪ The Savage Innocents (1960)
▪ Spartacus (1960)
▪ The Trials of Oscar Wilde (1960)
▪ L'Atlantide (1961)
▪ Buddha (1961)
▪ El Cid (1961)
▪ The Hellions (1961)
▪ Hercules and the Captive Women (1961)
▪ King of Kings (1961)
▪ La Fayette (1961) - presented in 70mm Cinerama in Europe only
▪ World by Night No. 2 (1961)
▪ Barabbas (1961)
▪ Beach Casanova (1962)
▪ The Best of Enemies (1962)
▪ The Golden Arrow (1962)
▪ The Great Wall (1962)
▪ Gypsy (1962)
▪ Madame Sans-Gêne (1962)
▪ The Music Man (1962)
▪ My Geisha (1962)
▪ Pontius Pilate (1962)
▪ Taiheiyo senso to himeyuri butai (1962)
▪ 55 Days at Peking (1963)
▪ Imperial Venus (1963)
▪ The Leopard (1963)
▪ The Long Ships (1963)
▪ The Pink Panther (1963)
▪ Circus World (1964) - presented in 70mm Cinerama
▪ The Golden Head (1964) - presented in 70mm Cinerama in Europe only
▪ O Santo Módico (1964)
▪ Zulu (1964)
▪ Le Corsaire (1965) - short subject
▪ The Great Wall (1965) - advertised as Super 70 Technirama
▪ Shellarama (1965) - short subject
▪ Clint the Stranger (1967)
▪ Custer of the West (1967) - presented in 70mm Cinerama
▪ The Black Cauldron (1985)


roughly,

23 x 36 mm = 2.35 for Scope (equivalent to 18.8mm x 44.1mm image in a flat format)
24 x 35 mm = 2.20 for 70mm (equivalent to 19.5mm x 43mm image in a flat format)
Common area to that^ : 23mm x 35mm = 2.30


Super Technirama is Technirama printed on 70mm prints (22.1mm x 48.6mm) which was king.
Techniramas printed in 70mm are shown in bold on the list.

(Technirama 35mm Scope 2.35 prints (equivalent to 12.6mm x 29.6mm flat) would have 0.67 x 0.67 = 45% the grain of CinemaScope shot movies, increased sharpness and no splice marks)

If original negatives are preserved could be a fine source for UHDs

[cynatnite]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Anamorphic VistaVision

I had this old list somewhere handy


▪ Davy (1957)
▪ Escapade in Japan (1957)
▪ It Happened in Rome (1957)
▪ Legend of the Lost (1957)
▪ The Monte Carlo Story (1957)
▪ Night Passage (1957)
▪ Sayonara (1957)
▪ Anna of Brooklyn (1958)
▪ Auntie Mame (1958)
▪ The Big Country (1958)
▪ Les Misérables (1958)
▪ The Love Specialist (1958)
▪ The Naked Maja (1958)
▪ Paris Holiday (1958)
▪ Seven Hills of Rome (1958)
▪ Tempest (1958)
▪ This Angry Age (1958)
▪ The Vikings (1958)
▪ For the First Time (1959)
▪ Honeymoon (1959)
▪ John Paul Jones (1959)
▪ The Miracle (1959)
▪ Il padrone delle ferriere (1959)
▪ Sleeping Beauty (1959) 21 x 36 mm 2.55
▪ Solomon and Sheba (1959)
▪ Winter Holidays (1959)
▪ World by Night (1959)
▪ Black Tights (1960)
▪ Blood and Roses (1960)
▪ Carthage in Flames (1960)
▪ The Grass Is Greener (1960)
▪ Messalina (1960)
▪ The Savage Innocents (1960)
▪ Spartacus (1960)
▪ The Trials of Oscar Wilde (1960)
▪ L'Atlantide (1961)
▪ Buddha (1961)
▪ El Cid (1961)
▪ The Hellions (1961)
▪ Hercules and the Captive Women (1961)
▪ King of Kings (1961)
▪ La Fayette (1961) - presented in 70mm Cinerama in Europe only
▪ World by Night No. 2 (1961)
▪ Barabbas (1961)
▪ Beach Casanova (1962)
▪ The Best of Enemies (1962)
▪ The Golden Arrow (1962)
▪ The Great Wall (1962)
▪ Gypsy (1962)
▪ Madame Sans-Gêne (1962)
▪ The Music Man (1962)
▪ My Geisha (1962)
▪ Pontius Pilate (1962)
▪ Taiheiyo senso to himeyuri butai (1962)
▪ 55 Days at Peking (1963)
▪ Imperial Venus (1963)
▪ The Leopard (1963)
▪ The Long Ships (1963)
▪ The Pink Panther (1963)
▪ Circus World (1964) - presented in 70mm Cinerama
▪ The Golden Head (1964) - presented in 70mm Cinerama in Europe only
▪ O Santo Módico (1964)
▪ Zulu (1964)
▪ Le Corsaire (1965) - short subject
▪ The Great Wall (1965) - advertised as Super 70 Technirama
▪ Shellarama (1965) - short subject
▪ Clint the Stranger (1967)
▪ Custer of the West (1967) - presented in 70mm Cinerama
▪ The Black Cauldron (1985)


roughly,

23 x 36 mm = 2.35 for Scope (equivalent to 18.8mm x 44.1 in a flat format)
24 x 35 mm = 2.20 for 70mm (equivalent to 19.5mm x 43mm in a flat format)
Common area to that^ : 23mm x 35mm = 2.30


Super Technirama is Technirama printed on 70mm prints (22.1mm x 48.6mm) which was king.
Techniramas printed in 70mm are shown in bold on the list.

(Technirama 35mm Scope 2.35 prints (equivalent to 12.6mm x 29.6mm flat) would have 0.67 x 0.67 = 45% the grain of CinemaScope shot movies, increased sharpness and no splice marks)

If original negatives are preserved could be a fine source for UHDs

Makes me happy we've got OCD nuts like you that keep lists like this!

[BluRayHiDef]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I think the concern is that you're (over)emphasizing particular technical specifications that reinforce unrealistic expectations and prejudices.

I'm trying to bring laymen into the fold.

[BluRayHiDef]

Originally Posted by legends of beyond

A 4K DI isn't the end all be all of the format. The Last Jedi, a native 4K disc, isn't as good looking as something like Pacific Rim, an upscaled disc. There's more to 4K than 4K.

I strongly disagree in terms of detail and sharpness. The only advantage that Pacific Rim has over The Last Jedi is specular highlights.

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

I'm trying to bring laymen into the fold.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Super Technirama is Technirama printed on 70mm prints (22.1mm x 48.6mm) which was king.

That’s right- I forgot they did use that term for the blow-ups. And here I go correcting people.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

I'm trying to bring laymen into the fold.

No offense intended, but that’s the problem. We want to bring laymen into the fold with the perspective to understand the real issues and impacts and not have their judgment clouded by precisely this kind of number-focused reductionism.

[Canada]

I was all about a 4K digital intermediate until Studio Canal $#%^ the bed with Terminator 2, a 4K digital intermediate that was DNR'ed to hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOuvnFTiXdc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rDXM_ZU8GY

[nick4Knight]

The only appeal of a thread like this is to misinform "the layman" that resolution matters... Just stop if you are really for this format? If you are some anarchist or troll, continue on your merry way; but fear thy criticism for it will come heavy and justified each useless page!

[bradnoyes]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

I'm trying to bring laymen into the fold.

That’s what she said.

Seriously though this topic is bringin’ tears to my eyes.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by nick4amber

The only appeal of a thread like this is to misinform "the layman" that resolution matters...

Resolution does matter- it's just more complicated (and less important) than threads like this would have you believe.

[VictoryAtNight]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

UHD is 3.75K

Film resolution varies between film stock (and the year the stock was created as film resolution has been improved slowly through it's hundred year+ lifespan) (a quick formula: every 60 years 2x), film elements (original camera negative -> interpositive copy -> internegative copy, etc) (example: lets say the exposed negative resolves 70c/mm detail, the intermediates will lose a lot of it with each copy stage, etc), and format size: Silent/S-35, Academy, Widescreen 35mm Anamorphic, 70mm, etc) (example on two 2.39 shaped formats: Super-35 is about 10mm x 24mm, 35mm Anamorphic is 17.5mm x 21mm (equivalent to a 12.4mm x 29.6mm flat format)

[Show spoiler]Digital resolution is a little plastic as resizing changes the pixel spread function™ (Scaling can result in less resolution https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...9#post12119619 )


I would do it like something like this, substituting the first term for the film format(s) if applicable (Super-35 / 70mm, etc)

Clear as mud.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

I was just wondering whether or not it would be accurate to refer to a movie as real 4K if it was shot at a resolution below 4K or on a film width with an equivalent resolution below 4K but was finalized with a 4K or higher digital intermediate. What do you guys think?

What about movies that were shot at resolutions above 4K or on a film width with an equivalent resolution that is above 4K but were finalized with a digital intermediate that is below 4K? Can they be referred to as real 4K?