Death in Venice (1971)

[ilovenola2]

Originally Posted by yellowcakeuf6

Has anyone that ordered this at Amazon received it, or at least a shipping notice? It's now listed there as third party only sales.

Edit: Other retailers are shipping; looks like another Amazon problem.

My copy arrived this morning (2/21) via UPS from Amazon. I pre-ordered last November when the title was announced. I haven't had a chance to look at the disc yet but will do so tonight.

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by oliver_67

The color just does not look right. I watched the film on the big screen in the 90s a few times. It does not look this way.

Someone calling the shots at Ritrovata needs to be stopped. I can't get excited for Italian film restorations anymore due to their obscene color grading choices.

[Needleman]

The color grading is wrong. Same as with The Tree of Wooden Clogs, and frankly, many of their color film releases. It is quite strange how this continues to occur! They use excellent film scanning equipment and produce very competent restorations. It is just in the color grading where they fall off. Why spend all the money to produce a release notably encumbered in one of the least expensive areas of film restoration (color grading)?

Similarly, why are Criterion not regrading these restorations themselves? They have the full-range of resources necessary to do so......

[BamaDullard]

Originally Posted by Needleman

The color grading is wrong. Same as with The Tree of Wooden Clogs, and frankly, many of their color film releases. It is quite strange how this continues to occur! They use excellent film scanning equipment and produce very competent restorations. It is just in the color grading where they fall off. Why spend all the money to produce a release notably encumbered in one of the least expensive areas of film restoration (color grading)?

Similarly, why are Criterion not regrading these restorations themselves? They have the full-range of resources necessary to do so......

I assume it has to do with rights, but it is interesting that Arrow was able to revise the color on Tree of Wooden Clogs but not Criterion. I'm sure money is also a major factor. Maybe they made the decision that it just wouldn't be worth the cost of regrading.

[ilovenola2]

Originally Posted by ilovenola2

My copy arrived this morning (2/21) via UPS from Amazon. I pre-ordered last November when the title was announced. I haven't had a chance to look at the disc yet but will do so tonight.

I have watched the first 20 or so minutes (credits through arrival at Lido-- early morning panoramas of Venice) on both the new Criterion Blu-ray and the original DVD release (cardboard flip box) of the film. Then I spot-checked through the rest of the film on the new Blu-ray.
The DVD was almost respectable -- except for the glaring rings (banding?) on the striped bathing suits of the children. That is gone from the new blu-ray and, were it present, I'd expect to read the cries of "no, no, no!" coming from many posters here (and me too!).
But it isn't and--- guess what--
Criterion's new Blu-ray looks absolutely GORGEOUS!
Having seen the film 6 or 7 times in first-class art houses upon its initial American release in '71 or '72 I can state that this new blu-ray release from Criterion looks great AND---- looks like the film looked in theatres at that time.
One poster has stated he saw the film in a 1990's release (I did not) and that it looked different from this BR. I don't know about that. Perhaps that's what some of you are basing your comments on.
I DO know that this year I have read carping abut BR and 4K releases of older films from probably younger viewers on this site that I just can't agree with.
For instance, the recent 4K "2001- A Space Odyssey" looks to me exactly like it did in the 6 times I saw it in Cinerama (5 in original release on Hollywood Blvd and once in the 70MM re-release in the early1970s.)

Is the picture quality on the new Criterion "Death in Venice" perfect??? Absolutely not!! But gorgeous just the same. No "green" on my tv and little problem with blacks --- could be "crisper" I suppose.

I haven't reached senility (yet!) but I haven't gone blind either.
And I am most pleased with the Criterion release of "Death in Venice."

By the way, I"m viewing on my 2015 4K (no HDR) 3D LG 60" TV through my Samsung 4K/3D player. Not as fancy as some, but a damn, damn GOOD picture!!

We are all entitled to our opinions so I hope mine will be respected. Remember, us "old folks" (75-- 2 days younger than Mick Jagger) have been seeing movies in many venues and formats, film to tv to VHS, Laserdisc, DVD and Blu-ray, for a LOT more years than most of you.
Once I've viewed the entire film on the new blu-ray I will comment further-- IF I believe I need to correct any of my comments.
I WILL say that I wish the sound could have been improved more. To bad that stereo wasn't used for the beautiful music of Gustav Mahler that provides the soundtrack. Don't know why, but it's is an early 70s Italian release. No stereo on Fellini either!!

[PowellPressburger]

Is the picture quality on the new Criterion "Death in Venice" perfect??? Absolutely not!! (Some occasional grain-- it's film!) But gorgeous just the same.

That remark comes across troublesome to me.

Some of the most beautiful and correct film transfers contain gorgeous film grain. Possibly you phrased it differently? You make is sound like film grain is a bad thing. I’d be worried if it lacked film grain.

Still on the fence over the color grading. Will have to hear more feedback from others.

[ilovenola2]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

That remark comes across troublesome to me.

Some of the most beautiful and correct film transfers contain gorgeous film grain. Possibly you phrased it differently? You make is sound like film grain is a bad thing. I’d be worried if it lacked film grain.

Still on the fence over the color grading. Will have to hear more feedback from others.

Sorry but I don't think "grain" is bad at all. One of the most gorgeous films I own is the Criterion "Black Stallion" which has many instances of grain. I didn't mean to disparage it. My comment was to stave off the continued "grain" carping on this site. Maybe I should take a look and change the wording. Thanks.

PS After rereading my grain comment I've decided that you are correct. It IS misleading so I'm simply going to remove it. Thanks again.

[Sheriff Hobbes]

Originally Posted by ilovenola2

Having seen the film 6 or 7 times in first-class art houses upon its initial American release in '71 or '72 I can state that this new blu-ray release from Criterion looks great AND---- looks like the film looked in theatres at that time.

Are you sure you can remember how the colors looked in a film you have seen almost 50 years ago?
I visited the theaters a lot in the 80's, but I couldn't tell you how all those movies looked in terms of color, lightning, etc. And that was one decade later!

[ilovenola2]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Hobbes

Are you sure you can remember how the colors looked in a film you have seen almost 50 years ago?
I visited the theaters a lot in the 80's, but I couldn't tell you how all those movies looked in terms of color, lightning, etc. And that was one decade later!

As a young moviegoing nut, beginning in childhood in the early 50s, I had a habit of seeing movies I liked over and over in the theatre when first released and again and again if they were rereleased. I continued the practice until VHS came around.

Can I remember everything about the "biggies" like "2001"? Mostly, yes. In "2001" there is a shot early on of a large cat that always struck me as compelling. On last year's 4K disc release, his shot looks EXACTLY like it did in all those (6 or 7) times I saw the film in Cinerama/70MM. It's moments like these that bring back the theatrical experience vividly to me.

So I trust my memory more than many comments on this or any site. (Now, don't squawk-- I also learn much from the posters as well.)
And I stand by my previous comment. Remember that I saw these films over and over in theatres in the days before home video--- and before the multiplex made "quality" an "iffy" thing.

After my initial post I looked at "Death in Venice's" opening sequence again on my other BR player, a Sony about 5 years old. The film looked even better in 1080p than it did on the Samsung where it was upscaled to 2160.

Now I really need to watch the entire film on both my players to either solidify or modify my opinions on this "Death in Venice" Criterion release. And I will continue to follow this thread for the alternate opinions of intelligent posters to remind me what to look for and consider. That's why this site (Blu-ray.com) is so wonderful!! And IMPORTANT to discerning viewers--particularly those who prefer DISC over streaming.

Two things I am sure we ALL agree on. This release is most welcome and was badly needed. And now we need a restored release of "The Damned," for me Visconti's most important and devastating film, which exists in the US only on a truly tacky DVD--- much worse than the "Venice" DVD.

Sorry for my verbosity but I come from an era that still communicated in a "wordy" fashion. Perhaps, as Emperor Joseph II says to Mozart, I use just "two many notes." The emperor was wrong about Mozart but would have probably been right about me.

[Lutz]

The real key to understanding ilovenola2’s response is that he’s watching on an LG 4K TV from 2015.

We have the joke that LG stands for “low grade”. They are renowned for having bad contrast, poor gray uniformity, and middling colour accuracy.

[ilovenola2]

Originally Posted by Lutz

The real key to understanding ilovenola2’s response is that he’s watching on an LG 4K TV from 2015.

We have the joke that LG stands for “low grade”. They are renowned for having bad contrast, poor gray uniformity, and middling colour accuracy.

Snide, third-party comments should be ignored.

Why, I wonder, does ANYONE who sees my TV in action think the picture is gorgeous?? And DON'T say they are ignorant.
Let's not turn this into a battle.

Enough said.

[Lutz]

Sorry, I tried keeping things down to facts while being tactful and upbeat but guess there was no way of my saying that while not coming off as snide.

[ilovenola2]

Originally Posted by Lutz

Sorry, I tried keeping things down to facts while being tactful and upbeat but guess there was no way of my saying that while not coming off as snide.

I'm sorry too. I was a bit snappy there. Peace, indeed. We're all here for the same thing.

I'd like to PM you a link to my TV. I would sincerely like you to take a look and see what you think if that's okay. Off this thread of course. I doubt Tadzio and Company would be interested, LOL

[agenda]

COMPARISON

[nissling]

Originally Posted by Lutz

The real key to understanding ilovenola2’s response is that he’s watching on an LG 4K TV from 2015.

We have the joke that LG stands for “low grade”. They are renowned for having bad contrast, poor gray uniformity, and middling colour accuracy.

And all of those people who are criticizing the new restoration are looking at it using professional grade monitors instead of cheap PC monitors and have calibrated them using properly profiled colorimeters? It's good that people are honest with what setup they are using whenever they express their opinion on what their perception is like.

I've pre-ordered the UK Blu-Ray. Got the old R2 DVD by Warner too as well and will be able to compare them on my Sony BVM later on. While the new grade may seem a bit out of place when just looking at the screenshots, the DVD just offers the classic red push that we saw on so many restorations back in the day. It leaves me apathetic TBH.

[yellowcakeuf6]

I saw a 35mm print of this in the mid 90s, and I don't remember the opening shot of the ship coming out of the dark titles sequence being as distinctly grainy, and the BD has a very noisy looking grain there, but a film print is not as close to the negative. The detail is very good. The yellow seems to jump when Aschenbach ventures out to the beach for the first time. His white suit also takes on a yellow color outside instead of gleaming, whereas inside the hotel it looks more naturally white. I also noticed the sky leaning toward green in one shot (where there was actually some blue in it) because of the yellow, compared to the DVD.
The sound is a big upgrade with the strings sounding much deeper and richer.

[Sheriff Hobbes]

Originally Posted by agenda

COMPARISON

I see similarities to the restoration of "The Hitcher", there's too much white. In the last picture the beach looks really dirty. The UK DVD seems to have a pink touch though. I will check if my German DVD has the same look as the UK.
To end the discussion about the correct color we just need to have a biologist look at screenshot #5 and tell us if the color of the flower to the left is correct.

[monorail91]

Just wanted to share a podcast episode I recorded with another podcaster (Film Baby Film) about Death in Venice! We go into the film’s themes of beauty, art, and decay, as well as how setting and geography fit into this dark tale. The guest also shares great insight around how this movie fits into Visconti’s filmography, and how it gives life to ideas the director explores throughout all his work.

iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...o/id1452973540

WordPress: https://popculturepundit.wordpress.c...ath-in-venice/

[johnpaul2]

Originally Posted by BamaDullard

I assume it has to do with rights, but it is interesting that Arrow was able to revise the color on Tree of Wooden Clogs but not Criterion. I'm sure money is also a major factor. Maybe they made the decision that it just wouldn't be worth the cost of regrading.

I don’t think it has to do with rights, but Criterion believing it’s not up to video labels to get the look of a movie right, but to the labs who are doing the restoration works.
And from a theoretical point of view, it’s hard to argue with that. It would like a museum changing a painting restoration because they think the person who restored it did it wrong. Maybe this person did, but it’s not the museum’s work to do so.

Originally Posted by nissling

And all of those people who are criticizing the new restoration are looking at it using professional grade monitors instead of cheap PC monitors and have calibrated them using properly profiled colorimeters? It's good that people are honest with what setup they are using whenever they express their opinion on what their perception is like.

Some people like James Steffen or Camera Obscure have argued against some of these gradings, and they have calibrated equipments.
Also, it’s not a matter of thinking “it’s too yellow” or “blacks are too muddy”, but finding a common aspect in many many Ritrovata restorations, and you don’t need a calibrated equipment to find a recurring pattern absent elsewhere. It’s of course much better, but a common look that you don’t see anywhere else will still pop on non-calibrated equipment.

My equipment is not calibrated, only setup manually with the Spears & Munsils 2nd version BD. In any case, I also usually make a 2nd pass on my computer, and I then use RGB values to talk about that, and, well, RGB values are independant of the monitor.

[oliver_67]

My blu ray disc arrived today. I watched the first 40 min. I am still not comfortable with the color grading on the blu. Then I reviewed the Criterion message board and the users there are also complaining about how the color grading is off on the blu. It seems the consensus there is that this is a disappointment instead of a disaster.