IMAX Enhanced

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Sorry Robert, no offense to your new mission, but personally I’m not that interested in the ‘IMAX Enhanced’ nor ‘Netflix Calibrated’ features for movie content until the ‘Amazon Calibrated’, ‘Warner Bros. Pictures Enhanced’, ‘Paramount Pictures Enhanced’, etc. offerings also launch along with my next TV being Eurofin Digital certified too - https://www.displaydaily.com/press-r...ation-and-logo

I am curious of one thing though, was Phil presiding over the demo at the Sound United booth? I heard he was scheduled to do a roundtable yesterday too - https://metrahometheater.com/cedia.html

P.S.
Forgot, as I wasn’t truly comprehensive above.
In order to especially get the most bang for my buck out of my next TV, I’m holding out for the ‘HBO Calibrated’ HDR mode despite me being aware that no matter the final distributor, content is graded to standard SDR or HDR specifications.

I have no personal agenda whatsoever. I'm strictly all about the best audio and video experience. I'm only reporting what I see and hear at CEDIA. If any other advanced format was exhibited I would post my opinions, but no other new video or audio formats where exhibited at CEDIA.

As things come along I speak about them, simple as that.

This reminds me of one of my favorite William Pollard's quotes:

"Without change, there is no innovation, creativity, or incentive for improvement. Those who initiate change will have a better opportunity to manage the change that is inevitable."

Like you and most of the members and readers of Blu-ray.com I enjoy the art and all of the sciences of high performance audio and video and have a keen eye for advancing the art and science. IMAX Enhanced is just one example of this and I loved the experience and wanted to spread the good word.

Hoping to get the IMAX Enhanced BD disc I watched at two CEDIA exhibits for our TV Shootout.

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by Waboman

An IMAX Drablet!?

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I have no personal agenda whatsoever.

I realize that. My response wasn’t meant to *shoot the messenger* as I appreciate your reporting . It was more intended to call out all the ‘marketing’ executives as to how ridiculous this is all becoming with milking consumers in stages with all these special sauces, calibrations and certifications. They should all pay attention to what consumers really want with regards to better picture quality and more user-friendly TVs (not requiring an engineering degree or living on an AV forum 24/7 in order to properly set up their new toy). And fixing past boo-boos promptly!

Not to pick on Sony Electronics per se, but their camera people do a pretty good job in asking cinematographers what they desire in a high end camera like the Venice and following thru with DP concerns for those features. That template should serve as a model for what all consumer TV divisions should do.

[Geoff D]

And yet Sony, as a consumer technology company, couldn't have been more provincial had they tried during the years I was selling their gear. Them getting into bed with Dolby and IMAX is one hell of a seachange from their previous outlook. The old maxim about "If you can't beat them..." springs to mind.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

And yet Sony, as a consumer technology company, couldn't have been more provincial had they tried during the years I was selling their gear. Them getting into bed with Dolby and IMAX is one hell of a seachange from their previous outlook. The old maxim about "If you can't beat them..." springs to mind.

Amazing Spiderman on UHD with the IMAX ratio? Fine by me

[samlop10]

A list of what this enhancement is supposed to do on devices that support it. I’m not sure the video will actually benefit much from it (other than a taller AR), but it sounds like the object-based audio might provide some improvement for height effects based on their center-height phantom channel and the bass management:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56772948

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by samlop10

A list of what this enhancement is supposed to do on devices that support it. I’m not sure the video will actually benefit much from it (other than a taller AR), but it sounds like the object-based audio might provide some improvement for height effects based on their center-height phantom channel and the bass management:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56772948

There we go then, the video side of things is a special remastering at source which is encoded to disc using standard HDR10 (just as I thought it might be: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...9#post15496079). Yes, there's still the 'IMAX Mode' on the TV to consider but if that's anything more than Vivid mode under another name I'd be very surprised.

[Agent Kay]

It was never going to be it's own HDR format.

[gkolb]

After reading Robert’s post about the Sound United booth using a PJ for the IMAX enhanced content, I’m convinced the target audience is primarily PJ owners and their Taller (ie bigger) screens. I’ve been scratching my head trying to imagine how much improvement their image would look on my 65” screen, and not feeling much impressed by what seems to be offered.

One thing I’ve found out from the Panny 820 thread is the huge number of projector owners and their quest to show HDR content through their current equipment. The new IMAX enhanced seems squarely aimed at PJ owners and their 100 inch plus screens.

[Robert Zohn]

From what I know I would agree regarding the video advantages be targeted towards projector owners. But the audio enhancements are for multi-channel systems, in addition to the normal 3 front and 2 rear channels IMAX Enhanced adds 4 to 6 overhead speakers and 4 sub woofers.

This is my first impression from the two CEDIA demo rooms.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by gkolb

After reading Robert’s post about the Sound United booth using a PJ for the IMAX enhanced content, I’m convinced the target audience is primarily PJ owners and their Taller (ie bigger) screens. I’ve been scratching my head trying to imagine how much improvement their image would look on my 65” screen, and not feeling much impressed by what seems to be offered.

One thing I’ve found out from the Panny 820 thread is the huge number of projector owners and their quest to show HDR content through their current equipment. The new IMAX enhanced seems squarely aimed at PJ owners and their 100 inch plus screens.

A lot of PJ's seem to rock a 'scope screen though so that automatically removes them from the 'taller is better' equation. I done seen some mofos on here actually complain that certain movies were in 1.85 because it meant that they couldn't fill their 2.39 'scope screens with all that heavenly glory!

All I've seen is rejoicing that the letterbox bars will be gone on IMAX'ed stuff and that's come from across the spectrum of display types. Three things are certain in life: death, taxes and people wanting their screens filled 24/7, no matter what ratio that screen actually is. 4:3, 16:9, 21:9, doesn't matter.

[Agent Kay]

If they did 1.90:1 tv sets tho....

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There we go then, the video side of things is a special remastering at source which is encoded to disc using standard HDR10 (just as I thought it might be: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...9#post15496079).

I hadn’t returned to that thread since I gently tried to hint to Vangeli that the ‘Netflix Calibrated Mode’ was not some premium HDR metadata thing and one should think of it more in terms of a collection of Sony’s TV presets generically applied to all Netflix content.

But to the IMAX Enhanced topic, for anyone familiar with UHD disc technology and BDA standards, I’m kind of surprised as to why that was even being seriously considered/discussed as a possibility by the guys over there in FilmFreak’s IMAX Enhanced thread or for that matter over in the AVS forum. All I can think of is that some folks over there are cinephiles and applied the notion that IMAX DCPs are different to open than SMPTE or interop DCPs and thought that this might also then carry over to the ‘IMAX Enhanced’ home deliverables.

As to the video value of this enhanced IMAX process, I guess one could make a case for it with catalog titles as was queried in discussion in 2015 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post10502760 and IMAX doing it better than this or that studio.

But with today’s modern digital cameras and film stock, the value is questionable and if they plan to go back and remaster previous modern films I fear that the IMAX enhanced process is jeopardizing the original creative intent of the filmmaker (Director) with a re-imagined version after-the-fact, whether or not it’s the Director who sits in on the redo.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

It was never going to be it's own HDR format.

Agreed, still surprised that was even a consideration by some.

[EbonDragon]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

From what I know I would agree regarding the video advantages be targeted towards projector owners. But the audio enhancements are for multi-channel systems, in addition to the normal 3 front and 2 rear channels IMAX Enhanced adds 4 to 6 overhead speakers and 4 sub woofers.

This is my first impression from the two CEDIA demo rooms.

Any idea on whether remastered content will have full 1.90:1 aspect ratio (where applicable)? Or will they keep it to 1.78:1 like with past 4K IMAX scenes?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I hadn’t returned to that thread since I gently tried to hint to Vangeli that the ‘Netflix Calibrated Mode’ was not some premium HDR metadata thing and one should think of it more in terms of a collection of Sony’s TV presets generically applied to all Netflix content.

But to the IMAX Enhanced topic, for anyone familiar with UHD disc technology and BDA standards, I’m kind of surprised as to why that was even being seriously considered/discussed as a possibility by the guys over there in FilmFreak’s IMAX Enhanced thread or for that matter over in the AVS forum. All I can think of is that some folks over there are cinephiles and applied the notion that IMAX DCPs are different to open than SMPTE or interop DCPs and thought that this might also then carry over to the ‘IMAX Enhanced’ home deliverables.

As to the video value of this enhanced IMAX process, I guess one could make a case for it with catalog titles as was queried in discussion in 2015 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post10502760 and IMAX doing it better than this or that studio.

But with today’s modern digital cameras and film stock, the value is questionable and if they plan to go back and remaster previous modern films I fear that the IMAX enhanced process is jeopardizing the original creative intent of the filmmaker (Director) with a re-imagined version after-the-fact, whether or not it’s the Director who sits in on the redo.

It's all about the marketing, those people do a great job at conjouring up images of this being a fabulous new "extension" to the UHD Blu-ray format when it was never going to be anything of the sort. At it's core it's a branded line of discs intended to do away with black bars and that nasty grain stuff.

As for the filmmakers, I fear that having x director sit in on it could be even more damaging to the original creative intent than what any nameless colourist could manage. Sure, if la Deakins was in on it then he'd make damned sure that it'd look like what he wanted it to look like but I've seen too many directors reimagine their work when given the chance. DPs are usually more attuned to what it should look like, hence Deakins, but then you get a numpty like Storaro who was indulged for far too long in cropping his movies to 2:1 to shill his own Univisium display concept! I bet he'd be over the moon at the prospect of a format that routinely cropped his 'scope shows to nearer 2.00:1, so thank the Maker that Tucker is presented in the correct aspect on that lovely new Blu-ray.

[Robert Zohn]

IMAX format, aka, aspect ratio:

For those who may not know IMAX's video format it is actually 1.43:1 and that's because of the very large stock 70mm film IMAX movies are filmed with. From a pure video perspective and just considering the video benefit of an IMAX movie is the use of the largest frame size film that was ever made, 70mm.

To me the most important element of an unaltered IMAX film was the ultra wide screen and the benefit was to fill more of our FOV. The audio always enveloped the viewers as well adding so much to the best immersive experience possible. So I like IMAX and welcome and appreciate any and all, no matter how moderate the enhancement may be to our UHD/HDR viewing experiences.

IMAX frequently converts the ultra wide and "very immersive" 1.43:1 to 1.90:1 so it can be played in more than just IMAX theaters and now the 1.90:1 may be used for IMAX Enhanced BDs and of course, IMAX Enhanced capable devices, e.g. the TV or projector, audio receiver and BD player.

On the audio side of IMAX Enhanced performance is overhead speakers that are just like all of the new overhead and side speaker configurations, but they image the object positioned audio channel with their special sauce. Further, and if my observations are correct, one more audio enhancement is the use of more sub woofers.

All of the above comes mostly from my knowledge of IMAX and what I saw at CEDIA last week. I did not speak with anyone from IMAX, but will be doing so later this week so check back for any further clarification they will share with me on what is IMAX Enhanced.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

IMAX format, aka, aspect ratio:

For those who may not know IMAX's video format it is actually 1.43:1 and that's because of the very large stock 70mm film IMAX movies are filmed with. From a pure video perspective and just considering the video benefit of an IMAX movie is the use of the largest frame size film that was ever made, 70mm.

To me the most important element of an unaltered IMAX film was the ultra wide screen and the benefit was to fill more of our FOV. The audio always enveloped the viewers as well adding so much to the best immersive experience possible. So I like IMAX and welcome and appreciate any and all, no matter how moderate the enhancement may be to our UHD/HDR viewing experiences.

IMAX frequently converts the ultra wide and "very immersive" 1.43:1 to 1.90:1 so it can be played in more than just IMAX theaters and now the 1.90:1 may be used for IMAX Enhanced BDs and of course, IMAX Enhanced capable devices, e.g. the TV or projector, audio receiver and BD player.

On the audio side of IMAX Enhanced performance is overhead speakers that are just like all of the new overhead and side speaker configurations, but they image the object positioned audio channel with their special sauce. Further, and if my observations are correct, one more audio enhancement is the use of more sub woofers.

All of the above comes mostly from my knowledge of IMAX and what I saw at CEDIA last week. I did not speak with anyone from IMAX, but will be doing so later this week so check back for any further clarification they will share with me on what is IMAX Enhanced.

Don't want to correct this.
But their film format is 1.43:1, not their video format.
Their video/digital format has mostly become 1.90:1

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's all about the marketing, those people do a great job at conjouring up images of this being a fabulous new "extension" to the UHD Blu-ray format when it was never going to be anything of the sort. At it's core it's a branded line of discs intended to do away with black bars and that nasty grain stuff.

As for the filmmakers, I fear....

Yeah I agree, image-wise (potential formatting benefits aside), if past history/practice - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...st#post8407411 is an example of what’s to come with the home deliverables, I’m also wary of what the IMAX 'enhanced' process will do to the originally HDR graded contrast and color saturation version.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

Don't want to correct this.
But their film format is 1.43:1, not their video format.
Their video/digital format has mostly become 1.90:1

Yep, and a recent film that became the first to be "shot entirely in IMAX" wasn't lensed on IMAX 65mm at all but rather Alexa 65 with an IMAX sticker slapped on it, and most recent films that had an embiggened aspect ratio weren't shot on IMAX 65mm either. So much sizzle, so little understanding.