The Seventh Seal 4K UHD (1957)

[Fellini912]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

1) It's not an "oder scan," it's the same scan. It just doesn't;t have the extra HDR pass.

2) Wait for what? The BFI has been out for over a year and has plenty of reviews out there.

1)

Oh Criterion, Oh Criterion, why oh why….

2) For a comparison.

3) just because I like a good trilogy

[BluProofie]

Originally Posted by kmhofmann

Not really a good argument. This isn't about tampering with anyone's work, this is about an easy way of overcoming the limitations of SDR / Rec. 709 (!), which was sadly not used here.

Matters even more with the upcoming SDR 4K UHD of Triangle of Sadness which was shot in color and will now be reproduced in a suboptimal manner.

Triangle of Sadness is either SDR or SDR in an HDR container on digital platforms. Completely different films/situations, it is clear this was Ostlund’s doing.

[kmhofmann]

Originally Posted by BluProofie

Triangle of Sadness is either SDR or SDR in an HDR container on digital platforms. Completely different films/situations, it is clear this was Ostlund’s doing.

Even if highlights on, say, the DCP don't go beyond 100-150 nits (and I've got no problem with that!), I won't believe there's no master in Rec. 2020 that could have been easily used, in an HDR container if must be. Rec. 709 is entirely on Criterion.

[nissling]

Originally Posted by kmhofmann

I won't believe there's no master in Rec. 2020 that could have been easily used, in an HDR container if must be. Rec. 709 is entirely on Criterion.

I will say that nearly all grading suites dealing with contemporary films in Sweden stuck with BT.709 for a very long time. I'd say four-five years ago you could hardly find any company that offered the services here. Reason is simply due to limited distribution and commercial interest which doesn't go along well with small budgets. Most major Swedish features have budgets between 2-5 million USD. For instance, A Man Called Ove had a budget of 4 million USD which is a fraction of the 50 million that the US Remake had.

As for Triangle of Sadness, it was graded by Oskar Larsson at Tint Post in Stockholm who I know have worked with HDR grading in recent time. Cannot say for sure if that was the case with Östlund's film but I do find it strange nonetheless that Criterion lacks HDR all together.

Either way that's enough OT for now.

[Fellini912]

I was hoping a more capable trustworthy reviewer can compare the two. I am not a believer of screencaps as a gauge for image quality. Add dynamic hdr into the mix…

[Shaw24]

Originally Posted by Fellini912

I was hoping a more capable trustworthy reviewer can compare the two. I am not a believer of screencaps as a gauge for image quality. Add dynamic hdr into the mix…

The BFI is one of the best black & white transfers I've ever seen. Tons of grain, but it's totally crisp and loaded with detail. It's glorious, honestly.

Given their track record, I'm skeptical that Criterion can match or top it.

[rcafilm]

Originally Posted by Shaw24

The BFI is one of the best black & white transfers I've ever seen. Tons of grain, but it's totally crisp and loaded with detail. It's glorious, honestly.

Given their track record, I'm skeptical that Criterion can match or top it.

This comment and the reviews detailing Criterion's colossal failure in handling the UHD release of Three Colors inspired me to just go ahead and order the BFI copy. Was expecting to have to import, but was very pleased to see it on Amazon US for a rather reasonable price.

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by rcafilm

This comment and the reviews detailing Criterion's colossal failure in handling the UHD release of Three Colors inspired me to just go ahead and order the BFI copy. Was expecting to have to import, but was very pleased to see it on Amazon US for a rather reasonable price.

Three Colors is fine. They can't do anything about the new remasters which were graded to match an archival 35mm print. They've been wrong on home video for decades.

That said, highly recommend the BFI over whatever Criterion is going to burp out.

[dvining]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Three Colors is fine. They can't do anything about the new remasters which were graded to match an archival 35mm print. They've been wrong on home video for decades.

That said, highly recommend the BFI over whatever Criterion is going to burp out.

The reported weirdness of the BFI subtitles tells me to just stay with my Bergman set and be happy with what I have.

[Fellini912]

I am in the right thread?

Are we talking about The Seventh Seal by Bergman?

A defining bona fide classic European film of modern cinema?

And a company like Criterion does not roll out a red carpet for this release (HDR aside) boggles my mind.

Look at Arrow’s release of Lynch’s Dune (Limited Edition), his best film in my opinion. It is a failed film with cult status. The treatment is amazing from image to the case and booklet.



I am here now hoping for at least a plastic case from Criterion vs buying the BFI.

This is not how you treat a classic film. My two cents.

[BluProofie]

Would rather have a plastic case than a sleeve or a disc stacked on top of another disc.

[Fellini912]

Originally Posted by BluProofie

Would rather have a plastic case than a sleeve or a disc stacked on top of another disc.

Soon to be the highlight of this very sad 4k anemic release of a classic film.

[Muyfa666]

Originally Posted by nissling

I will say that nearly all grading suites dealing with contemporary films in Sweden stuck with BT.709 for a very long time. I'd say four-five years ago you could hardly find any company that offered the services here. Reason is simply due to limited distribution and commercial interest which doesn't go along well with small budgets. Most major Swedish features have budgets between 2-5 million USD. For instance, A Man Called Ove had a budget of 4 million USD which is a fraction of the 50 million that the US Remake had.

As for Triangle of Sadness, it was graded by Oskar Larsson at Tint Post in Stockholm who I know have worked with HDR grading in recent time. Cannot say for sure if that was the case with Östlund's film but I do find it strange nonetheless that Criterion lacks HDR all together.

Either way that's enough OT for now.

Bring on the OT!

I understand you been involved in few releases with Swedish origins?

[nissling]

Originally Posted by Muyfa666

I understand you been involved in few releases with Swedish origins?

Yeah you can say that. I do telecine, color timing, restoration etc on an archival level. Due to NDAs however I can rarely go into detail on the work I've done personally unless I'm credited in one way or another. You can find one old Swedish feature film on SVT Play right now that I was completely responsible for, but I cannot tell you which... It looks good at least.

I still remember when I visited SFI during their restoration of Seventh Seal many years back. It's really fascinating that the OCN was still in such good condition despite how many prints they've made out of it. This film always looked good of course but the 4K restoration really brought it to another level.

[Muyfa666]

Did you have something to do with Thriller also?

[Brian81]

Is Criterion having a remastered BD with this one?

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by Brian81

Is Criterion having a remastered BD with this one?

The Bergman set BD is the remaster. No word yet but they'll probly just use that disc.

[PNguyen]

review up looks like BFI is better without noise reduction

[titch]

"Until now, the 4K restoration was available only on Blu-ray". Doesn't have a clue, does he?

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by titch

"Until now, the 4K restoration was available only on Blu-ray". Doesn't have a clue, does he?

2 b fair, it was only available on Blu-ray in the US Bergman boxset.