Waterworld 4K UHD (Arrow Video)

[Fat Phil]

Sooo, since Ballyhoo have been open about producing an extended version of their Waterworld documentary but 'tis not on Arrow's latest release, then presumably there's a release in another territory waiting in the wings? I don't know about y'all, but I'm getting an 'eleven different limited edition german mediabooks' vibe.....

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Fat Phil

Sooo, since Ballyhoo have been open about producing an extended version of their Waterworld documentary but 'tis not on Arrow's latest release, then presumably there's a release in another territory waiting in the wings? I don't know about y'all, but I'm getting an 'eleven different limited edition german mediabooks' vibe.....

Only eleven?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by lgans316

One step forward as I always liked the colour grading on the Arrow BD but 2 steps backward due to the inclusion of just the theatrical cut on 4K.

The arrow color grade is certainly different than I always remember this film looking, which is more like the universal 4k. That doesn't make the arrow bad since it is notably more dynamic, but it's prob a revisionist grade. Both might be worth owning

[Ben_R]

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Ben_R

The Universal blu-ray came out 10 years before the arrow BD and it looks similar to the universal 4k does (that came out after the arrow BD) in terms of color and contrast .Arrow looks substantially different than both in terms of color and contrast. I believe the universal HD DVD also looked similar to the BD in color.

So given all the universal releases look pretty similar across 4K and HD masters, and arrow looks much different, with Universal owning the movie my guess arrow is a revisionist color grade. Not a bad thing, but the likely truth.

[Ben_R]

Interesting opinion, now read up on Eidetic memory.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Ben_R

Interesting opinion, now read up on Eidetic memory.

Sure, after you read up on false memory

Every release of this movie that I can remember has had that same earthy look to it, even going back to old theatrical trailers from 10+ years ago. That same style of look has remained consistent across the Universal home video releases - DVD, BD, 4K UHD, etc.

Now you could argue that its a big conspiracy by Universal, in that only the theatrical release was different than every other piece of media they have released for this film. I think the more likely explanation though is that Arrow took a fresh look at the film and gave it a more modern color grade as often occurs with 4K films; again, I don't think that's a bad thing at all, it's just different than most iterations of this movie to date.

If the Arrow 4K UHD grade ends up looking similar to Arrow's BD, I won't be getting rid of my Universal 4K UHD for sure. I will still buy the Arrow 4K for the Ulysses Cut as I sold the BD anticipating this release a while back; a bit disappointing that cut isn't in 4K given its significance, but what can you do.

[Ben_R]

I’ll take Science based on accuracy and validity over Social Science, a study of human behaviour every day in the week.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Ben_R

I’ll take Science based on accuracy and validity over Social Science, a study of human behaviour everyday of the week.

99% of social science "mental" issues are rooted in biology/genetics, not just behavior

They prob should never have divided up the medical and psychiatric fields for that reason

[Ben_R]

Stop moving the goalposts, you specifically mentioned false memory which is a social science, not science.

Have a good one, i’ve fed you enough for today.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Ben_R

Stop moving the goalposts, you specifically mentioned false memory which is a social science, not science.

Have a good one, i’ve fed you enough for today.

He’s using the very opposite of his logic here in the NO ESCAPE thread to justify the Unearthed BD being better than the Turbine disc, even though the Turbine disc looks much closer to the color timing of both the DVD and the LaserDisc, both of which I own. Whatever it takes to win his opinion in the moment, I suppose.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

He’s using the very opposite of his logic here in the NO ESCAPE thread to justify the Unearthed BD being better than the Turbine disc, even though the Turbine disc looks much closer to the color timing of both the DVD and the LaserDisc, both of which I own. Whatever it takes to win his opinion in the moment, I suppose.

It's not the opposite, because there were previous Blu-rays of No Escape released (e.g. Nameless) and they were similar to the Unearthed disc in color timing - its pretty clear the 2K studio master of No Escape is the same color timing as the Unearthed Disc, not the Turbine.

On the other hand, Waterworld basically had similar color timing for Universal HD DVD, BD, and 4K masters. Which again, implies the Arrow timing is revisionist (even if one likes it better, which is fine).

People tend to get weird with Arrow and automatically assume everything they do is right, but they have blown it quite a few times. Most obvious example was THE THING, where I argued the Arrow was overbrightened with flat contrast compared to past Universal releases; people vehemently argued against this and said the Arrow was the "right" look - until the Universal 4K UHD came out, which restored the far better darker and contrastry of previous Universal releases.

[bokes]

I’m confused by the back and forth.
I have the Universal steel 4k.
I never picked up the Arrow blu, but I am seriously considering the Arrow 4K set.
Is the consensus To keep the Universal for better color? And the benefit of Arrow is to acquire the Ulysses Cut?

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Yeah, previous home video releases aren't a reliable indicator of accuracy at all. Do you know how many different masters of the same film I've seen that all look similar yet look nothing like the original grade seen on 35mm prints? That's because a lot of the time, previous grades are used for reference instead of actual reference materials such as the final director/DP-approved answer print.

Also, theatrical trailers? People do know that theatrical trailers usually don't have the final color grade, right? And even if they did, the funny thing is that the SAME theatrical trailers you see in bonus features on Blu-rays/DVDs and on TV recordings usually don't look anything like how those exact same trailers looked when they were shown on 35mm in theaters.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

Yeah, previous home video releases aren't a reliable indicator of accuracy at all. Do you know how many different masters of the same film I've seen that all look similar yet look nothing like the original grade seen on 35mm prints? That's because a lot of the time, previous grades are used for reference instead of actual reference materials such as the final director/DP-approved answer print.

Also, theatrical trailers? People do know that theatrical trailers usually don't have the final color grade, right? And even if they did, the funny thing is that the SAME theatrical trailers you see in bonus features on Blu-rays/DVDs and on TV recordings usually don't look anything like how those exact same trailers looked when they were shown on 35mm in theaters.

Yeah Occam's razor is also a thing though

If the original studio - who produced the theatrical release and all of the movie's home video releases - maintains a similar look all the way from the ancient theatrical trailer to the brand new 4K master, what is more likely: that the original studio with near unlimited resources was revisionist the whole time for "reasons," or that the small label that wants to make its release stand out from the original studio's release purposely did a different take on the color for marketing purposes?

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Yeah Occam's razor is also a thing though

If the original studio - who produced the theatrical release and all of the movie's home video releases - maintains a similar look all the way from the ancient theatrical trailer to the brand new 4K master, what is more likely: that the original studio with near unlimited resources was revisionist the whole time for "reasons," or that the small label that wants to make its release stand out from the original studio's release purposely did a different take on the color for marketing purposes?

So accuracy be damned if a more simple explanation is available?

Yeah, I know all what you said seems reasonable and logical on the surface level but unfortunately you have much too faith in the accuracy of home video grading. Get prints and compare them to whichever masters you wish, otherwise you're spouting conjecture and pure speculation. Leaning towards the Universal just because it looks like the rest of the Universal releases is a logical fallacy, especially when this is the same company that seemingly based their UHD release of Jurassic Park on a DVD-era master which looked absolutely nothing like the 35mm prints.

[Hindustani]

One 4K Disc release is enough

We do not need another WATERWORLD 4K by Arrow!

Instead i'll prefer Cosner release DANCES WITH WOLVES in 4K instead.

[Geoff D]

An Arrow-quality remaster plus the Universal’s HDR grading would be my ideal combo, I like that aspect of the Universal but the usual degraining of the opticals - and, stupidly, what they think are opticals but aren’t - makes it look very uneven. The Arrow BD on the other hand has a much more ‘hands off’ approach to the opticals but the murky green grading and totally nuked highlights weren’t too appealing. I expect the highlights to be restored for their 4K HDR version, presuming that they’re working from their previous master, but if it’s still murky green then I dunno.

[Deciazulado]

Waterworld 4K Blu-ray

Waterworld 4K Blu-ray

[Hedrox]

I suspect this'll be another Wolf of Wall Street situation, where the Arrow release will have just slightly better grain management.