Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny - SPOILER THREAD

[Modren]

If I had a nickel for every franchise where Shia LaBeouf's character dies off-screen in the fifth entry, I'd have 10 cents.

Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it's happened twice.

[phlyle11]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

"Nazis are underwhelming villains" is not the take I expected to read this morning

I would agree, if that was what he actually said.

[BluBonnet]

Tell me you didn't watch the movie without telling me you didn't watch the movie

[phlyle11]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Tell me you didn't watch the movie without telling me you didn't watch the movie

I'm not even sure what that means, but I don't think that saying "Voller as a villain was fairly underwhelming" means that Nazis make underwhelming villains. I just happen to agree with joshsquash729 that Mads felt underutilized.

[Tony208]

Poor Mutt

[FragnitoM]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

If you watch this in IMAX you get to see a special preview for The Creator

all i got was the trailer which i’d already seen before. there was nothing exclusive about it

if it was a new trailer i couldn’t tell anything that was new/different about it

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by FragnitoM

all i got was the trailer which i’d already seen before. there was nothing exclusive about it

if it was a new trailer i couldn’t tell anything that was new/different about it

Maybe your theatre didn't get it?

[Mandalorian]

Originally Posted by Modren

If I had a nickel for every franchise where Shia LaBeouf's character dies off-screen in the fifth entry, I'd have 10 cents.

Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it's happened twice.

If you had a nickel for every Paramount sequel about aliens in which Shia Lebeouf gets chased through a college campus and library (KotCS and Revenge of the Fallen)

[BluBonnet]

Crystal Skull's ending definitely has a more bittersweet feel now

[DrWally]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Crystal Skull's ending definitely has a more bittersweet feel now

See that's the thing - Mangold has found a clever way to make the scorn heaped on Crystal Skull work to Dial Of Destiny's advantage here. Indy's speech about Mutt on the boat actually turns out to be one of the most emotionally affecting moments in the film and one of its high points. It gives the Shia-haters and Crystal Skull-haters their candy whilst at the same time reinforcing the film's themes of time and loss.

[joshsquash729]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

"Nazis are underwhelming villains" is not the take I expected to read this morning

Not entirely what I mean. I just personally feel like villains should be a threat to the protagonist, and while Voller was quite smart and perhaps quietly menacing at times, I don't think he personally did anything too threatening to Indy. Yeah, he shot him, I know, and the idea of what he wants to do with the dial is certainly horrifying, but in terms of threat and menace, I think the Nazi guy at the beginning, Boyd Holbrook's character, and the super tall henchman guy all posed a bigger threat to Indy himself. But that's kinda how it's been through the whole series- Belloq and Donovan weren't super big threats either. I don't think Indy directly fights either of them, does he?

Nazis are awful, horrible, disgusting people with a built-in menace, sure, but I do think it would be interesting for Indy to fight someone who isn't a Nazi for once. I get it's the time period, and all that, but other threats existed. I know Temple of Doom wasn't Nazis, and there was some controversy around that, but still. Voller's goal could technically have been any major event or war in history, and depending on how it was handled, could've made him even more interesting, I think. If he was more a foil/mirror version of Indy- as passionate about history and all that, but was trying to turn the tide of another historical war or event, that could've been cool. As is, we don't really know what he's capable of. He gets conked in the head at the beginning, comes back and threatens a hotel worker, and then sorta just leads his henchmen to the Dial before messing up calculations and dying in a fiery wreck. That's sorta the MO of all the Indy villains- it's their own greed that does them in, granted.

All of this is to say- I just wanted a villain that's more directly a threat versus hiding behind henchmen the whole time. Even one good fight between him and Indy would've made it worth it, I think.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by joshsquash729

Not entirely what I mean. I just personally feel like villains should be a threat to the protagonist, and while Voller was quite smart and perhaps quietly menacing at times, I don't think he personally did anything too threatening to Indy. Yeah, he shot him, I know, and the idea of what he wants to do with the dial is certainly horrifying, but in terms of threat and menace, I think the Nazi guy at the beginning, Boyd Holbrook's character, and the super tall henchman guy all posed a bigger threat to Indy himself. But that's kinda how it's been through the whole series- Belloq and Donovan weren't super big threats either. I don't think Indy directly fights either of them, does he?

Nazis are awful, horrible, disgusting people with a built-in menace, sure, but I do think it would be interesting for Indy to fight someone who isn't a Nazi for once. I get it's the time period, and all that, but other threats existed. I know Temple of Doom wasn't Nazis, and there was some controversy around that, but still. Voller's goal could technically have been any major event or war in history, and depending on how it was handled, could've made him even more interesting, I think. If he was more a foil/mirror version of Indy- as passionate about history and all that, but was trying to turn the tide of another historical war or event, that could've been cool. As is, we don't really know what he's capable of. He gets conked in the head at the beginning, comes back and threatens a hotel worker, and then sorta just leads his henchmen to the Dial before messing up calculations and dying in a fiery wreck. That's sorta the MO of all the Indy villains- it's their own greed that does them in, granted.

All of this is to say- I just wanted a villain that's more directly a threat versus hiding behind henchmen the whole time. Even one good fight between him and Indy would've made it worth it, I think.

This is right out the Allan Quatermain and Edgar Rice Burough playbook. The henchmen are always the threat, because the Leader is a coward.

[spanky87]

It’s a good thing Crystal Skull never spawned a rabid, tribalistic fanbase or else there’d be accusations that Mangold deliberately pandered to toxic fans by undoing Crystal Skull, Spielberg’s vision, and also ignoring the set-up that Mutt would inevitably take up the mantle when Indy was ready to hang it up.

[Galactus123]

I wonder what Lucas thinks about Mutt's fate? I hope they got his approval.

[joshsquash729]

Originally Posted by mwynn

This is right out the Allan Quatermain and Edgar Rice Burough playbook. The henchmen are always the threat, because the Leader is a coward.

I suppose. I do love me a good twist villain or memorable secondary villain. I know one could argue that the villains are never the point of an Indy movie either. This is all just my weird logic put upon the movies to try and understand them better. While enjoyable, they're not entirely for me, I admit that, so I very well could be missing a huge part of what makes them so beloved. So please- nobody take what I say as a personal attack on them or the franchise. Being in the theater last night- I loved seeing how happy this franchise makes people, and I don't mean to crap on that.

[jess1581]

3

Originally Posted by Galactus123

I wonder what Lucas thinks about Mutt's fate? I hope they got his approval.

I doubt it, they never sought his approval about the rest of his creations they took liberties with...

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by joshsquash729

I suppose. I do love me a good twist villain or memorable secondary villain. I know one could argue that the villains are never the point of an Indy movie either. This is all just my weird logic put upon the movies to try and understand them better. While enjoyable, they're not entirely for me, I admit that, so I very well could be missing a huge part of what makes them so beloved. So please- nobody take what I say as a personal attack on them or the franchise. Being in the theater last night- I loved seeing how happy this franchise makes people, and I don't mean to crap on that.

No attack intended. Have you read/watched anything from Quatermain or Burroughs? Tarzan or John Carter? One of the best examples of this is probably Princess Bride. James Bond and Mission Impossible is another.

[Galactus123]

Originally Posted by jess1581

I doubt it, they never sought his approval about the rest of his creations they tool liberties with...

It would sad if that is what happened. He was at the premiere so I hope he likes the movie. I'm sure he and Spielberg talked about it.

[spanky87]

It was unlikely Shia and Mutt would’ve returned in any iteration of Indy 5 anyway. He spoke negatively toward Spielberg and Crystal Skull, and when this film was conceived he was “cancelled” over abuse allegations which he admitted to. Not someone a major studio would want to star in their film.

Though recasting was still an option.

[joshsquash729]

Originally Posted by mwynn

No attack intended. Have you read/watched anything from Quatermain or Burroughs? Tarzan or John Carter? One of the best examples of this is probably Princess Bride. James Bond and Mission Impossible is another.

You make a good point- certainly with Princess Bride. One could also argue Star Wars follows similar guidelines- all the one-off villains do the dirty work of Palpatine. I'll definitely do a deeper dive into the old Burroughs and Quartermain work now that you've mentioned it. Thanks!