Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cynatnite

We're just as vulnerable to losing physical media as we are to digital media. I'd come closer to saying that digital media is a bit easier to recover than physical.

There are pros and cons to both sides. I think the either or argument is silly because there's nothing to say you can't have it both ways if you so choose.

I disagree about the risk of losing physical media equaling that of losing digital content. The risk of having a fire that destroys all of your possessions is very low. I can say with gratitude that I, nor any of my friends or family, have ever been the victim of a fire. I have made it almost three generations and counting without disaster befalling. Insurance ameliorates this tiny risk if you elect for adequate coverage.

As for digital titles disappearing, I am not saying the odds of that happening are huge, either, but I do believe the odds of it happening are far greater than my home burning down. Such titles are much more prone to taking little vacations from your collection than outright vanishing and that would annoy me greatly.

I can see where digital has some positive attributes. I have 95 such titles myself (never watched them) and I could have a lot more if I bothered with all the codes I have with my discs. I even have *gasp* a Netflix account, but I find that I seldom use it. I have said that digital looks quite good, just not as good or as reliable as the comparable disc, but its audio is not of the same caliber as disc. I can see why a large number of people enjoy both physical and digital media; I just rarely have any use for the latter.

I respond to you-know-who in the manner that I have because of his penchant for false equivalency, exaggerations, soothsaying fantasies, denial of fact, hyperbolic hyperbole, and his voluminous chanting in the misconception that if you say it often enough, it will transform into the truth.

[cynatnite]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I disagree about the risk of losing physical media equaling that of losing digital content. The risk of having a fire that destroys all of your possessions is very low. I can say with gratitude that I, nor any of my friends or family, have ever been the victim of a fire. I have made it almost three generations and counting without disaster befalling. Insurance ameliorates this tiny risk if you elect for adequate coverage.

As for digital titles disappearing, I am not saying the odds of that happening are huge, either, but I do believe the odds of it happening are far greater than my home burning down. Such titles are much more prone to taking little vacations from your collection than outright vanishing and that would annoy me greatly.

I can see where digital has some positive attributes. I have 95 such titles myself (never watched them) and I could have a lot more if I bothered with all the codes I have with my discs. I even have *gasp* a Netflix account, but I find that I seldom use it. I have said that digital looks quite good, just not as good or as reliable as the comparable disc, but its audio is not of the same caliber as disc. I can see why a large number of people enjoy both physical and digital media; I just rarely have any use for the latter.

I respond to you-know-who in the manner that I have because of his penchant for false equivalency, exaggerations, soothsaying fantasies, denial of fact, hyperbolic hyperbole, and his voluminous chanting in the misconception that if you say it often enough, it will transform into the truth.

My main point is that everyone's needs are different and one shouldn't be penalized either.

There is no shame in having Netflix. Hell, I've got that Hulu and Amazon Prime in addition to the physical media. I rarely buy digitally unless it's something I feel I'll only watch once and is cheap.

Fire isn't the only thing that can hurt physical media. A friend had a fire that was contained to her kitchen. Her DVD's weren't touched by the fire itself, but were lost due to smoke damage and heat. Given the wide variety of calamities that can strike, one can never know.

[Dunemoon]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

Even if Blu-Ray dies do you think Criterion or Shout will still be releasing stuff?

Criterion titles are available on Apple TV. In Canada, there was a $4.99 Arrow sale. Streaming is the future.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

how the heck did you manage to retire at 44? Did you win the lottery?

Three things mainly: no wife, no kids, and no debt. All three of those wind up costing a fortune. There was some dumb luck involved, too, of a mixed sort. No lottery wins, though. $564 is the most I have ever won.

I decided to live within my means and narrow my focus to a couple of hobbies instead of a dozen. I do not finance my wants; I pay cash for them or make do without until I have the money.

I took a huge paycut to leave the rat race so early, but I have never regretted it. The freedom I gained is worth more than every possession I have times 10. No bosses, no passengers, no more 60+ hour weeks, and no more alarm clock. I have not set one in years.

[The Great Owl]

My Blu-ray collection has all of the time in the world.

I just hope that Blu-ray players will still be around in some form or fashion in the years to come.

[meremortal]

Think I'm about the only one of my original group of friends growing up who still purchases movies on disc. A bunch of them were early adopters of dvd and amassed pretty decent collections to watch on their PS2. And a lot of bought blus for their PS3 when it came out over a decade ago. But it seems they've mostly moved on and just stream now. The most diehard 'film buffs' I know tend to not own any discs either.

[Blades1370]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

My Blu-ray collection has all of the time in the world.

I just hope that Blu-ray players will still be around in some form or fashion in the years to come.

If you know for a fact at some point Blu-Ray players will no longer be made or sold, buy a couple new ones and stash them away. Provided of course that newer players aren't backwards compatible.

[cynatnite]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Three things mainly: no wife, no kids, and no debt. All three of those wind up costing a fortune. There was some dumb luck involved, too, of a mixed sort. No lottery wins, though. $564 is the most I have ever won.

I decided to live within my means and narrow my focus to a couple of hobbies instead of a dozen. I do not finance my wants; I pay cash for them or make do without until I have the money.

I took a huge paycut to leave the rat race so early, but I have never regretted it. The freedom I gained is worth more than every possession I have times 10. No bosses, no passengers, no more 60+ hour weeks, and no more alarm clock. I have not set one in years.

To each their own.

Married for almost 29 years, mortgaged house, student loans, sending two kids to college, then grandkids and more debt than I ever imagined we'd have. We've got a huge family now, with crazy holidays, summer vacations and all that.

Worth every dollar of debt.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Three things mainly: no wife, no kids, and no debt. All three of those wind up costing a fortune. There was some dumb luck involved, too, of a mixed sort. No lottery wins, though. $564 is the most I have ever won.

I decided to live within my means and narrow my focus to a couple of hobbies instead of a dozen. I do not finance my wants; I pay cash for them or make do without until I have the money.

I took a huge paycut to leave the rat race so early, but I have never regretted it. The freedom I gained is worth more than every possession I have times 10. No bosses, no passengers, no more 60+ hour weeks, and no more alarm clock. I have not set one in years.

I have no wife, no kids and I own my own apartment but no way could I retire in 1 years time lol. You lucky son of a *****!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cynatnite

To each their own.

Married for almost 29 years, mortgaged house, student loans, sending two kids to college, then grandkids and more debt than I ever imagined we'd have. We've got a huge family now, with crazy holidays, summer vacations and all that.

Worth every dollar of debt.

That would be horrific for me. .

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cynatnite

To each their own.

Married for almost 29 years, mortgaged house, student loans, sending two kids to college, then grandkids and more debt than I ever imagined we'd have. We've got a huge family now, with crazy holidays, summer vacations and all that.

Worth every dollar of debt.

I have no doubt of that worth. Immeasurable, I would say.

My long, long working on the railroad and spending every other night in a flop house motel pretty much precluded my having much chance at having a family. I never married, but the divorce rate among railroad workers is sky high; you're just never home.

I made the best of it and I do have plenty of grand nephews and nieces, so I am not entirely left out of family life.

[cynatnite]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have no doubt of that worth. Immeasurable, I would say.

My long, long working on the railroad and spending every other night in a flop house motel pretty much precluded my having much chance at having a family. I never married, but the divorce rate among railroad workers is sky high; you're just never home.

I made the best of it and I do have plenty of grand nephews and nieces, so I am not entirely left out of family life.

My father in law retired from the railroad. He loved it.

All you can do is make the best out of life. It's the only one we've got!

[squidzilla]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're probably right, most people have Sound Bars and don't have elaborate Sound Systems. I subscribe to Sound & Vision, and that's all they write about are these Fantastic Expensive Sound Systems $20K+ Home Entertainment Centers. So if you guys don't come close to this, you don't have the best and you have to step down and compromise. Just because it shakes your room doesn't mean you are getting Quality Sound. Atmos and Dolby Vision HDR10+ are the latest, and that is in the Codec H.265 in 4K UHD Discs and Streaming Video. So if you have the proper set up and it's configured, you're going to pull this Sound from a Disc Player or Streaming Provider. Streaming Providers are pulling ahead in offering more of this content.

Sound and Vision reader here as well. They do not only suggest 20k sound systems. They do a best buy list where you can get a decent set of HT speakers for 2-5k. Then another 1-3k for an AVR. So between 5-10k you can get an outstanding 5-9.1 Atmos sound system. I have been an home theater person for almost 20 years now. It is a falsehood that you need to spend that kind of money to get really high quality audio. In fact, you can spend 3k start to finish and get one that is pretty good. Sound bars do not count.
I spent thousands on my first one 20 years ago and the first thing I noticed with my DVD audio was how compressed it sounded. No matter how much one spends on their gear, if the source material is not up to snuff you can not hide it.

[guachi]

I suspect there will be players for a few more decades. The major benefit of a 4k player is it can still play CDs if you have any. So I suspect that 4k blu-ray players will be around for a long time simply because of versatility.

CD players and DVD players and blu-ray players might disappear but that's only because you still get them with a 4k player.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Streaming lags behind in audio quality by a substantial margin; even most digital proponents concede this fact. Streaming is not giving you Atmos or DTS:X audio; you need to stop pretending it does.

Not sure who needs to stop pretending. Vudu, Amazon Video and Netflix all support Atmos.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by squidzilla

You can not tell right away if there is compression in the audio?

No, and I bet neither can you if you aren't told what you are listening to. What does perceptual compression sound like in your opinion?

Personally, I think the higher quality audio is pearls before swine for most people. I seriously doubt most people on the digital side would be considered audiophiles on any level.

Well, fortunately that is balanced out by all those people on the disc side who consider themselves "audiophiles" on all levels.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

No, and I bet neither can you if you aren't told what you are listening to. What does perceptual compression sound like in your opinion?

Not sure who needs to stop pretending. Vudu, Amazon Video and Netflix all support Atmos.

Sounds like the rationalizing of a soundbar owner who can't, or won't, invest in a real home theater.

Netflix has a lossy, not lossless, audio and with a lower bitrate version of Atmos. Atmos Lite is what they offer: not the real thing. Probably the same for Voo-doodoo and Amazon Slime, too.

From the AVS forums:

"Netflix Atmos: Constant Bit rate : 448 Kbps Channel(s), Compression mode : Lossy"

And for disc we have this:
Dolby True HD Atmos on disc is 18 Mbits per second and lossless.

"The maximum encoded bitrate is 18 Mbit/s"

"Dolby has expanded the Dolby TrueHD format to allow the format to support Dolby Atmos content on Blu-ray and ultra high definition Blu-ray Disc."

"Dolby TrueHD bitstreams at multiple sampling rates (including 48, 96, and 192 kHz) and bit depths (16-, 20-, and 24 bit)."

"Dolby TrueHD provided lossless support" and "Dolby Atmos sound in Dolby TrueHD codec to enable a support for a losslessly encoded object-based sound."

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...me-theater.pdf (page 12)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD

[Mose Harper]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

My Blu-ray collection has all of the time in the world.

I just hope that Blu-ray players will still be around in some form or fashion in the years to come.

Players will be around for a good while yet.

It's the availability of affordable, high quality, feature rich players that concerns me.

That's why there was such a frenzy last week to snap up the Oppos.

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

My Blu-ray collection has all of the time in the world.

I just hope that Blu-ray players will still be around in some form or fashion in the years to come.

Originally Posted by Blades1370

If you know for a fact at some point Blu-Ray players will no longer be made or sold, buy a couple new ones and stash them away. Provided of course that newer players aren't backwards compatible.

that's always been my intention if I see that the writings on the wall for blu ray. I'll buy 3 or so players and keep them in the box for when needed...

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

I believe that they will continue to fix bugs for a while, but I doubt that they'll have resources for significant new development work.

I assume you mean HDR10+ (almost all UHD BDs use HDR10).

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have a kind of myopia when I type sometimes; I think I have hit keys that I in fact missed.

I believe the firmware will keep coming because if it doesn't, they will get hit with warranty claims of "my disc freezes." They said they will keep doing firmware updates, so I give them the benefit of the doubt as their customer support has been legendary. Until I have a reason to doubt them, I won't.

Incidentally, Oppo has announced that they are considering one more production run of their flagship Oppo 205. Those interested can sign up for notifications here:

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-...lastbatch.aspx

No one really knows why Oppo is pulling the plug, but here is an interesting write-up in Sound & Vision:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...it-ce-business

I always thought they were the Gold Standard, but I was going to get the Panasonic UB900 because of the Streaming Functions. I thought Oppo made a big mistake not including any Streaming, because Roku doesn't have anywhere near the Chipset.