Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Not to open up this can of worms yet again, but I never understood the hate over the Special Editions for the most part. The only change that truly bugs me is the "Jedi Rocks" sequence in Episode VI, because it stops the story in its tracks and you can't understand a word. More changes were done for the Blu-Rays, but most of those didn't bug me, either...and I grew up with the theatrical versions on VHS (being 16 in early 1997 when the SEs hit theaters).

I'm with you - I think there is more good than bad in the special editons, just the bad jumps out at you so much. People complained about cgi Jabba yet no one seems to have issues with the extra cgi ships and such. But some of the changes do make a major change in the movies - Han not shooting first for example. It changes the character and that is why people seem to have issues. That is what happened with the prequels too - instead of having this epic war that we heard about and seeing Ben and Anakin being bad-ass Jedi, we got what we got which again changes the original films. Ben is now a flatout liar, Vader not nearly as powerful or sympathetic, etc. Seeing how those few changes impacted the audience, Lucas should have been aware that his prequels were in trouble. Instead, he was hoping the new cgi effects would distract from the bad story. Yet it made a ton of money which shows that fans are sometimes idiots and still see bad films multiple times (and I say this as one of those idiots). Will ahve to wait and see if history repeats itself with this film.

[Geoff D]

Hmmm. Vader's always been Tarkin's biatch in Star Wars, though. He may look even more pathetic in light of the events of the prequels, but that's always been there in the original film, that he was more of a goon than the Emperor's right hand man which he was later made out to be.

And that's why I shouldn't get annoyed at the prequels not lining up with the originals, because Lucas was literally making up the OT as he was going along anyway.

In a way, it's a shame he wrapped it up as quickly as he did (like with Leia being the other) at the end of Jedi, because he always knew that there'd be a sequel trilogy at some point. Ah well, there's no use crying over spilt blue milk.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Not to open up this can of worms yet again, but I never understood the hate over the Special Editions for the most part. The only change that truly bugs me is the "Jedi Rocks" sequence in Episode VI, because it stops the story in its tracks and you can't understand a word. More changes were done for the Blu-Rays, but most of those didn't bug me, either...and I grew up with the theatrical versions on VHS (being 16 in early 1997 when the SEs hit theaters).

Wrong thread..that's being discussed over in the Blu Ray section

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

I'm with you - I think there is more good than bad in the special editons, just the bad jumps out at you so much. People complained about cgi Jabba yet no one seems to have issues with the extra cgi ships and such. But some of the changes do make a major change in the movies - Han not shooting first for example. It changes the character and that is why people seem to have issues. That is what happened with the prequels too - instead of having this epic war that we heard about and seeing Ben and Anakin being bad-ass Jedi, we got what we got which again changes the original films. Ben is now a flatout liar, Vader not nearly as powerful or sympathetic, etc. Seeing how those few changes impacted the audience, Lucas should have been aware that his prequels were in trouble. Instead, he was hoping the new cgi effects would distract from the bad story. Yet it made a ton of money which shows that fans are sometimes idiots and still see bad films multiple times (and I say this as one of those idiots). Will have to wait and see if history repeats itself with this film.

While I do see the point about Han's character change, my main complaint with the scene is every re-editing attempt tends to look worse. The scene was obviously never filmed with that change in mind, and instead of using a digital double with Harrison's head, Lucas kept trying to shift the body with a near-simultaneous shot by Greedo. As for Ben, I don't see his words to Luke as bold-faced lies, but he definitely kept secrets to protect the boy. After all, would you really want to know the father you believed abandoned you was really still alive, more than half machine, and a loyal servant to a tyrannical dictator? I wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hmmm. Vader's always been Tarkin's biatch in Star Wars, though. He may look even more pathetic in light of the events of the prequels, but that's always been there in the original film, that he was more of a goon than the Emperor's right hand man which he was later made out to be.

I always interpreted that scene as Vader following Palpatine's orders more than anything else. If he'd killed that weasel of an officer at Tarkin's roundtable, Palpatine would've wanted an explanation.

...Lucas was literally making up the OT as he was going along anyway.

I thought he wrote the whole OT in prototype form around 1975, as one mammoth script.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I always interpreted that scene as Vader following Palpatine's orders more than anything else. If he'd killed that weasel of an officer at Tarkin's roundtable, Palpatine would've wanted an explanation.

"I'm taking an awful risk Vader, this'd better work..."

I thought he wrote the whole OT in prototype form around 1975, as one mammoth script.

nggg...must....avoid.....sarcastic......response.. ....

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

"I'm taking an awful risk Vader, this'd better work..."

Yeah, Tarkin was the boss on the Death Star, but Vader answered directly to Palpatine.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

...yet no one seems to have issues with the extra cgi ships and such.

That's not entirely true. Granted, so-called enhancements to things like Mos Eisley or Bespin or the Death Star attack have their fans but they have their critics too. And not just self-styled purists who object to any and all changes on principle alone.

I just watched Empire again a few nights ago and while I don't exactly mind the Bespin changes they don't quite fit either. It's a 30+ year old movie. Scenes that look more at home in a movie made 20+ years later feel out of place.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by octagon

That's not entirely true. Granted, so-called enhancements to things like Mos Eisley or Bespin or the Death Star attack have their fans but they have their critics too. And not just self-styled purists who object to any and all changes on principle alone.

I just watched Empire again a few nights ago and while I don't exactly mind the Bespin changes they don't quite fit either. It's a 30+ year old movie. Scenes that look more at home in a movie made 20+ years later feel out of place.

I never had any problem with the Bespin changes; they're actually improvements in my opinion. The original set looked far too cramped for a place supposedly hovering among the clouds. The Mos Eisley approach was a little corny, but it didn't take anything away from the film for me. I also loved the new shots in the Death Star battle, but was dismayed the schematics weren't updated. Here's a fan version called "A New Hope Revisited"...

YouTube

[Darkstream]

• Star Wars: Caravan of Courage
• Star Wars: Battle for Endor

Originally Posted by ObiTrentKenobi

Ta He He Fixed it...

Some of us don't want to even acknowledge all the Ewok stuff in Return of the Jedi, and you want to count those movies?!

[Optimus]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Some of us don't want to even acknowledge all the Ewok stuff in Return of the Jedi, and you want to count those movies?!

I never even knew about Caravan of Courage till I read that post lol

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by OptimusL

I never even knew about Caravan of Courage till I read that post lol

I only remember it as being called The Ewok Adventure.

[Optimus]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

I only remember it as being called The Ewok Adventure.

Ah ok that rings a few bells

[stvn1974]

The one thing that Ewoks have over Gungans is that they don't speak. They used to not blink either but...

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

The one thing that Ewoks have over Gungans is that they don't speak. They used to not blink either but...

I don't care what anyone else says; Jar Jar was hilarious, and I still like him. He served the same purpose in Episode I that the Ewoks did in "Jedi": giving younger audiences a character to relate to.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

...but was dismayed the schematics weren't updated.

Are you familiar with the adage 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'?

Those wireframe graphics are part of the film. Is there any compelling reason to 'update' them? And what does one really gain anyway? At some point today's shiny, whiz bang effects are going to be just as outdated as those wireframes anyway.

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

He served the same purpose in Episode I that the Ewoks did in "Jedi":...

Boy, did he.

[spanky87]

If they bring the Ewoks back then I hope we are introduced to a gay Ewok. I think the world is ready.

[aiman04]

Just realized that EWOK was derive from WOOKIE.

[Offender_Mullet]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I don't care what anyone else says; Jar Jar was hilarious, and I still like him. He served the same purpose in Episode I that the Ewoks did in "Jedi": giving younger audiences a character to relate to.

The Ewoks were added for toy-making purposes, nothing more.

[Nightrunner]

I never had a Ewok or Jar Jar toy. Ever.

The Ewoks knew how to party tho.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I don't care what anyone else says; Jar Jar was hilarious, and I still like him. He served the same purpose in Episode I that the Ewoks did in "Jedi": giving younger audiences a character to relate to.

I'm not a big supporter of all the George Lucas hating/bashing, but if anything justifies it, it's Jar Jar.


And, in my opinion: Revenge of the Sith > Return of the Jedi