Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

The "it sounds and looks the same" brotherhood prefers this headgear:

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Who said anything like that?
Professional subjective listening tests are obviously not based on the results of a single person. They use methodologies such as MOS or MUSHRA which include a number of trained participants and compute average scores with confidence intervals.

What a load of pretentious bollocks imo. Some can, some can’t, it’s as simple as that. I can.

[CinemaScope]

Originally Posted by NonSequiturL

Won't the lubrication in the moving parts dry up over time?

Ouch!

[Vilya]

The only remaining time I worry about is my own.

These "its the end of the world as we know it" threads are so funny, thus why I visit them, with all of their dire foreboding.

[BaronVH]

Streaming is doing something far worse than harming the future of blu-ray, it is affecting the theatrical release of films overall. I am not an economist or a filmmaker, but I do believe there is a reason why we are seeing more sequels and crowd pleasers and more video on demand. At least Amazon releases its films in the theaters. Once that market diminishes, it will have an overall detrimental affect on the end product. One difference in CDs and music with movies that can be made is copy protection. Anybody can burn a CD. It is harder, an illegal, to have a quality copied movie. You also cannot copy a vinyl album, and those, for various reasons, are having a resurgence, but that could be something of a lengthy trend. What you are seeing is the studios that are struggling are selling off their more risky films to Netflix or studios are just not taking the theatrical risk, and those films are not making it to the theater and the home market. Maybe some studios will band together to put a stop to this, but I doubt it. There is minimal cost to have your own streaming service and just not release a physical disk, which is a much greater quality than streaming. It is a shame that people will gladly accept a lesser quality product for convenience sake. The real question will be what will happen if the ISPs decide that they will charge a premium for Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, and Disney once they kill all the theaters and the world is in a no theater wasteland.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by squidzilla

Those that say it all sounds the same: Have fun with your sound bar future.. Me? I am in the process of picking out my gear for an Atmos 9.1.2 set up as well as picking out my 4k projector. Of course it is all a waste of money according to the bad ears sound bar crowd. This is not avsforums and I did not expect to find too many audio/video enthusiast and that is pretty much what I have discovered thus far.

Well hang on now, I didn't say "it all sounds the same." I am asking for a blind test between Dolby Atmos and the core DD 5.1 track at 640kbps. Obviously I want lossless when I can get it, but I never felt that DD 5.1 640kbps failed to impress. My biggest issues with streaming are not the sound quality, but the picture quality, constant buffering (even though I have a 60mbps connection) and the unreasonable prices. That's why I still buy the disc.

[squidzilla]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Well hang on now, I didn't say "it all sounds the same." I am asking for a blind test between Dolby Atmos and the core DD 5.1 track at 640kbps. Obviously I want lossless when I can get it, but I never felt that DD 5.1 640kbps failed to impress. My biggest issues with streaming are not the sound quality, but the picture quality, constant buffering (even though I have a 60mbps connection) and the unreasonable prices.

I was not referring to you. I respect that you say you can not tell the difference. You also did not refute that it is possible for others to tell the difference. Hence your exclusion from the "it all sounds the same" crowd.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Why is wanting the best, acquiring the best, and enjoying the best somehow a bad thing? It sounds more like envy and that is their problem, not mine.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I did not build a home theater to enjoy listening to AM radio with it. If others want to do so, that's their choice. I built it because I want the best video and audio that my wallet allows.

So you're not really acquiring the best. You're just acquiring the best you can afford.

That's cool. We all make compromises.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I can just stare at the beautiful image on the screen and immerse myself in the "good enuff" 40 watt stereo sound.

But isn't immersing yourself in "good enuff" exactly what you're going to do with the gear you can afford?

Originally Posted by Vilya

The "it sounds and looks the same" brotherhood prefers this headgear:

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If you try to point out the quality advantages, you become a "snob", an "elitist",...

Yeah, that's why.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by squidzilla

I was not referring to you. I respect that you say you can not tell the difference. You also did not refute that it is possible for others to tell the difference. Hence your exclusion from the "it all sounds the same" crowd.

I blind tested myself and I needed to get down to 384kbps DD 5.1 to hear the difference. And even there I think it was because of minor differences in the mastering. I would be curious to see if someone with quality equipment and golden ears could hear the difference between lossless (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, PCM) and the core tracks on Blu-ray discs where they run at their highest bitrates (640kbps for DD 5.1 and 1.5mbps for DTS 5.1). I feel like if there are any differences, they are extremely subtle. So while it does not all sound the same, it is probably good enough to fool most. Sort of like the difference between a CD and that same CD ripped to 256k AAC. I feel like worrying about it misses the point of watching the movie which is to enjoy it.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I blind tested myself and I needed to get down to 384kbps DD 5.1 to hear the difference.

That is no coincidence, as this bitrate was chosen for many applications (such as DVD) based on extensive testing performed in the 1990s.

I found the report on the listening tests I mentioned earlier (at the time I was working for a company that supplied software to one of the participating labs):

https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3324.pdf

AC3@640kbps was not tested, but AC3@384 was rated excellent, and E-AC3@448 got basically the same score as the original from the testers.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by octagon

But isn't immersing yourself in "good enuff" exactly what you're going to do with the gear you can afford?

Yeah, that's why.

I am playing the best formats, blu-ray and 4K UHD disc, with the best home theater gear I can afford. I am taking full advantage of everything I own. I don't watch and listen to mono VHS tapes on my home theater.

I am not settling for "good enough"; my wallet just vetoes my aspirations from time to time. The quest for better gear is an ongoing one.

And that picture was a jest in direct reply to another esteemed member who had made a jest just prior to my own. The emoji should have further made that clear.

I notice that you did not call out that member for their tin foil hat picture; is that a touch of hypocrisy showing, perhaps? Those you are inclined to agree with can post funny pictures, but those you tend to disagree with can not do the same? The pro digital members can jest, but not the pro disc? Sure smacks of double standards to me.

It is harder to convey humor in these forums than one would expect. A joke you have to explain is automatically a failed one, at least to the person requiring the explanation.

[squidzilla]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I blind tested myself and I needed to get down to 384kbps DD 5.1 to hear the difference. And even there I think it was because of minor differences in the mastering. I would be curious to see if someone with quality equipment and golden ears could hear the difference between lossless (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, PCM) and the core tracks on Blu-ray discs where they run at their highest bitrates (640kbps for DD 5.1 and 1.5mbps for DTS 5.1). I feel like if there are any differences, they are extremely subtle. So while it does not all sound the same, it is probably good enough to fool most. Sort of like the difference between a CD and that same CD ripped to 256k AAC. I feel like worrying about it misses the point of watching the movie which is to enjoy it.

I go for immersion when I watch movies. Depending on the movie, and the use of channels, I can tell. As I stated earlier, dialogue heavy movies I can not tell since it is only the center channel being utilized for the most part. It sounds like you have an actual 5.1 setup and not some pseudo 5.1 via a sound bar. If you still only think it is subtle and nothing more then more power to you. I try to get every last bit to increase the immersion factor. In fact, if all of my HT gear broke I would stop watching movies at home until I could replace it all.

[squidzilla]

The funny thing is, how many actual home theater owners are on the "it all sounds the same bandwagon"? It seems to be stacked suspiciously high towards the 5.1/7.1 sound bar crowd that thinks that. Why not spend the money on a true multi channel set up and see for yourself. Do this instead of reading about the Pepsi challenge and letting others decide for you.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I am not settling for "good enough"; my wallet just vetoes my aspirations from time to time.

Tomyto, tomahto. If I wanted to I could spend a lot more on HT gear. I have the money. I could, for instance, have bought a much more expensive projector but I compromised. The one I bought was good enough.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I notice that you did not call out that member for their tin foil hat picture; is that a touch of hypocrisy showing, perhaps?

Maybe, I dunno. But to be fair, the tinfoil hat pic was directed at somebody who buys tinfoil in bulk so...

Originally Posted by Vilya

Those you are inclined to agree with can post funny pictures, but those you tend to disagree with can not do the same?

A) I don't actually disagree with most of what you're saying so that's not really it.

B) I probably shouldn't have singled you out so starkly though. Snarky 'soundbar crowd' comments aren't exactly uncommon in these parts and I ignored that squid person's ostrich comment that was right above yours.

C) The dunce cap thing probably wasn't as snarky as I initially thought it was anyway so that's my bad. I didn't really take the cap-to-cap tit-for-tat context into account. In retrospect it does seem a lot less dickish in that light.

[JeremyW]

Which do you believe is better: A movie on UHD Blu Ray with DTS Master audio and in HDR10 or the same movie on Digital from iTunes or Vudu with Dolby Digital Plus audio and HDR Dolby Vision?

I'm torn. I know that DTS Master Audio sounds better and Dolby Vision Looks better. Which do you think?

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Incidentally, I watched my 4K UHD Dolby Vision copy of Star Wars The Last Jedi with my Oppo 203 and I had zero playback issues. I paused, reversed, resumed, and played with the sub titles, too. Everything worked without a hitch.

I did have to boost my volume +7 db over my usual setting; the audio was too quiet. Even after raising the volume, it still felt like something was not quite right. It just did not have the overall presence that I expected.

The pq was fine, excellent detail and great colors. Outer space was black enough for me. When my 3D copy arrives from the U.K. in about 9 days, I will watch that version. I suspect I will enjoy the 3D edition more as 3D is just so much fun!

Originally Posted by squidzilla

Those that say it all sounds the same: Have fun with your sound bar future.. Me? I am in the process of picking out my gear for an Atmos 9.1.2 set up as well as picking out my 4k projector. Of course it is all a waste of money according to the bad ears sound bar crowd. This is not avsforums and I did not expect to find too many audio/video enthusiast and that is pretty much what I have discovered thus far.

I use to love the Speakers and Sound System set ups, I still have my Sansui Amp and Speakers from the PX in Vietnam back in 1969. They still work and it was the greatest back almost 50 years ago. We all have priorities and what is important to us. Now I use Optical Headphones, and to me the Sound is outstanding. Like I said, these Sound Systems are Fantastic but they get outdated very fast. They have to be set up properly with the latest Firmware and HDMI Cables. So a System a few years old can be outdated before it's even fully set up.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

So a System a few years old can be outdated before it's even fully set up.

The AVRs become outdated due to new HDMI standards and new audio formats, among other things, but at least with the audio formats they are backwards compatible in that they rollback to whatever your AVR can handle. The AVRs still perform great even after they are supplanted by the latest tech.

Speakers, however, can last for decades. I still have a pair of Polk SDA-2 speakers in use to this day that I bought in 1984! I have told people many times that good speakers are worth their cost because they remain relevant and they last and last with minimal care and effort.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by BaronVH

Streaming is doing something far worse than harming the future of blu-ray, it is affecting the theatrical release of films overall. I am not an economist or a filmmaker, but I do believe there is a reason why we are seeing more sequels and crowd pleasers and more video on demand. At least Amazon releases its films in the theaters. Once that market diminishes, it will have an overall detrimental affect on the end product. One difference in CDs and music with movies that can be made is copy protection. Anybody can burn a CD. It is harder, an illegal, to have a quality copied movie. You also cannot copy a vinyl album, and those, for various reasons, are having a resurgence, but that could be something of a lengthy trend. What you are seeing is the studios that are struggling are selling off their more risky films to Netflix or studios are just not taking the theatrical risk, and those films are not making it to the theater and the home market. Maybe some studios will band together to put a stop to this, but I doubt it. There is minimal cost to have your own streaming service and just not release a physical disk, which is a much greater quality than streaming. It is a shame that people will gladly accept a lesser quality product for convenience sake. The real question will be what will happen if the ISPs decide that they will charge a premium for Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, and Disney once they kill all the theaters and the world is in a no theater wasteland.

One of the many reasons I have backed up my entire BD collection. I am actually down to the last few titles.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by flyry

[pmil]

Originally Posted by Cinema74

I never seriously thought of Blu-ray discs as having a lifespan, let alone such a short one at 10 years. Kind of figured the discs would last forever. Is it possible to manufacture more rigid discs or is it all the same? I guess such a thing as a "premium" disc is preposterous?

Back up your discs to MKV. You'll have the exact same file, and video and idiot quality.