Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Just for the hell of it last night my bro and I threw in the unaltered original New Hope that was released on DVD a few years back in that set. After scanning through some of the effects-laden footage, I must admit: Some of the effects shots are pretty dodgy and I for one am GLAD that those have been touched up and modernized. Theres hardly any dog-fighting in the Yavin Battle - its mostly close ups and was quite obvious they were avoiding having to show too much. This scene has the MOST improvements, IMO.

The light sabres look suspect in many shots, there are ships that fly right through other ships(obvious mistakes) and various other things that just dont look right. The same can be said for the big ship battle at the end of ROTJ which we also took a look at.

I think what he and I agreed on was that the effects clean up and modernization of some of the action shots are welcomed changes and they make the films look better. Period. We DO agree that han shot first, the Jabba barge song is way better in the original-unaltered ROTJ, and there are other things here and there that arent the best additions.

Overall though - go and watch the originals or at least watch the scenes Im talking about.... you'll be HAPPY they did make some updates. Trust me.

That's right! Most defenders of the OOT don't even know anymore what they looked like. Sure, Jabba and the music-number could have been executed better but so do countless traditional "Toy'n'Rubber"-effects. But the "new scenes" are just the cherry on top and I'm sure nobody would want to miss any of the little tweaks and improvements the movies have now to offer!

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

I just watched the originals (SW and ESB) last night and I loved every minute of them just they way they are. They looked just as they did when I was 12 and 15 years old and I wouldn't change them for the world.

Good for you! Guess you can save some money in September.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

They looked just as they did when I was 12 and 15 years old and I wouldn't change them for the world.

You don't have to, Lucas handles that!

And concerning your little quote at the bottom of your posts: Lucas is one of the greatest defenders of artistic freedom and supporter of film-preservation. He hasn't changed his position one bit! The negatives of the OOT still exist and ARE being preserved. He just rejects that anyone (especially the studios) is allowed to meddle with classic movies without the artists consent.

And Cameron is just an unimaginative second-class director - so I don't care what he has to say about Star Wars.

The S.E. just was an unforgettable movie-experience! Don't you remember?

YouTube - ‪Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition 1997 Trailer‬‏

[starwarsagent]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

You don't have to, Lucas handles that!

And concerning your little quote at the bottom of your posts: Lucas is one of the greatest defenders of artistic freedom and supporter of film-preservation. He hasn't changed his position one bit! The negatives of the OOT still exist and ARE being preserved. He just rejects that anyone (especially the studios) is allowed to meddle with classic movies without the artists consent.

And Cameron is just an unimaginative second-class director - so I don't care what he has to say about Star Wars.

The S.E. just was an unforgettable movie-experience! Don't you remember?
YouTube - ‪Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition 1997 Trailer‬‏

Oh I remember. I saw it like 9+ times on a digital screen. THX sound certified theater....Jabba looked pretty good to me back in 97...

[Cowboy]

No I will tell you what I remember; I remember standing in line with my Dad, Cousin and Uncle for about 5 hours in line to see Star Wars in May of 77. Eating KFC in line....looking at the collectors movie program we just bought...then we got in and when my cousin and I walked out you can't put into words what we saw. That Dolby Stereo was turned up so loud....what an expierence.

Then on May 21st 1980 standing in line on opening night hundereds and hundreds of people in line several dressed up in costumes, collectors program we just bought while waiting in line....

Then in 1983 skipping school as a junior in HS so we could get over to the theater to get in line on opening day excited to too see the film, program in hand..of course when we walked out we were like WTF was with all the muppets? And Luke is Leia's brother? Thats stupid.......

But wonderful memories....I wish all Star Wars fans could have seen them when they were new.

[starwarsagent]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

No I will tell you what I remember; I remember standing in line with my Dad, Cousin and Uncle for about 5 hours in line to set in to see Star Wars. Eating KFC in line....looking at the collectors movie program we just bought...then we got in and when my cousin and I walked out you can't put into words what we saw. That Dobly Stereo was turned up so loud....what an expierence.

Then on May 21st 1980 standing in line on opening night hundereds and hundreds of people in line several dressed up in costumes, collectors program we just bought while waiting in line....

Then in 1983 skipping school as a junior in HS so we could get over to the theater to get in line on opening day excited to too see the film, program in hand..of course when we walked out we were like WTF was with all the muppets? And Luke is Leia's brother? Thats stupid.......

But wonderful memories....I wish all Star Wars fans could have seen them when they were new.

Cool story bro. I was 6 years old. My mom was drunk at home listening to her music. her friend luigi was visiting from Mexico DF. I asked my mom to take me to see star wars and she said no. luigi took me and my two siters to see star wars. It was a dark, dirty theater...we had no food or drinks.

After the movie, I went back home and remember screaming at my mom about star wars. I asked her to please take me to the store to buy me an action figure...the rest is history.



For the prequels. I made it a life goal to enjoy them as much as I could. I didn't want to miss them. I went all out. Got drinks, popcorn, toys and went back and back to see them again.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

For the prequels. I made it a life goal to enjoy them as much as I could. I didn't want to miss them. I went all out. Got drinks, popcorn, toys and went back and back to see them again.

I also have vivid memories of the prequels and the excitement while waiting for them. I cut every new image i could find out of magazines and pinned them on my wall. And as I finally got to see "The Phantom Menace" in theaters it was pure magic. I don't recall anymore how often I went... it was at least 4 or 5 times. Then in 2002 "Attack Of The Clones" just blew me away. It is to date my favorite Star Wars Movie. "Revenge Of The Sith" was a very emotional experience. I just have to hear a few notes of the haunting score and I'm almost in tears. The Prequels are classic movies in their own right. Some fans rave about how great it was to see the Original in 77. I bet it was - but experiencing the Prequel-Trilogy take form 12 years ago was just as great.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

These days movies die out in 2 weeks. they fizzle and go away. I wanted to see THOR and found out only one movie theater is playing it on a 100 miles radius.

Star Wars ran for more than 6 months, release after re-release...and a year later people were still shocked over it.

That was in a different world and has nothing to do with the quality of the films. It has to do with the advent of cable TV, home video and other ways to see movies. Back then, you saw a movie in a theatre or you didn't get to see it until years later, unless you had HBO and even HBO didn't play films until at least a year after release. (The first movie HBO played was 1970s "Sometimes A Great Notion", which they played in late '72.) In addition, back in the Star Wars days, films opened "slowly" -- they would generally open with a few hundred prints at most (sometimes far less) in major cities and then after word got out, the film would be rolled out to other cities and towns.

In fact before Star Wars, 1960s roadshow productions (like West Side Story, Lawrence of Arabia, Oklahoma, etc.) would sometimes only open in New York and Los Angeles and then slowly roll out to other big cities, sometimes playing for a year before rolling out to neighborhood theatres.

Even when new media came along, there were windows for theatrical, pay cable, home video, broadcast TV, basic cable, etc. and they were usually a year each. Today, the windows have shrunk to almost nothing and there are those in the industry who want to go "day and date" - which means that you release in almost all media on the same day. (IMO, that would kill the theatrical business, which would in turn, eventually kill the movie business, but that's the subject for a different post.)

We all know that in the theatrical business, all the studios care about these days is opening weekend. But from their perspective, if they can make the same money in a few weeks that they used to make in a year, especially from a cash flow standpoint, that's of benefit to them. And that's one of the reasons they want to go day and date: if they release on home video or sell to pay cable faster, they recoup their investments faster. And what are studios today? They're not really producers of movies, they're investment clearing houses. Which is why the beginning of most movies have 12 different logos.

Today, a typical film opens with at least 3000 prints (although the size of theatres has shrunken considerably. In the Star Wars era, there were still plenty of 1500 seat theatres. Today a typical multiplex screen is only 350 seats.) Star Wars opened in just 42 theatres across the U.S. The fewer theatres a successful film opens in, the longer it's got to play to satisfy the audience that wants to see it.

[adywan]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

That's right! Most defenders of the OOT don't even know anymore what they looked like.

Now that is just not true. Of course they can remember what they looked like. don't you think they already have them thanks to the countless VHS/ Laserdisc releases? And they were also available in the 2006 DVD re-issue as a bonus disc albeit in horrendous quality for todays DVD standards .

The thing is, if George hadn't decided to make the Special Editions then we would still have the same versions from over 30 years ago. Would people have suddenly stopped watching and enjoying them just because the FX aren't up to todays standards? Of course not.

The attitude that a minority of Star Wars fans have that "i don't care that the unaltered versions aren't being released, because i'm getting the version i want, so tough", is just typical of today's society. As long as number one is ok then who cares about anyone else. Surely because we are all fans of Star Wars we should all be together. It shouldn't be one constant argument about which version is best or which trilogy is best because at the end of the day these are just opinions. It was a much better time to be a star wars fan before 1997 because all this backbiting and fighting never existed. It was a much more peaceful and enjoyable time, before the dark times..... before the......

[starwarsagent]

Originally Posted by adywan

Now that is just not true. Of course they can remember what they looked like. don't you think they already have them thanks to the countless VHS/ Laserdisc releases? And they were also available in the 2006 DVD re-issue as a bonus disc albeit in horrendous quality for todays DVD standards .

The thing is, if George hadn't decided to make the Special Editions then we would still have the same versions from over 30 years ago. Would people have suddenly stopped watching and enjoying them just because the FX aren't up to todays standards? Of course not.

The attitude that a minority of Star Wars fans have that "i don't care that the unaltered versions aren't being released, because i'm getting the version i want, so tough", is just typical of today's society. As long as number one is ok then who cares about anyone else. Surely because we are all fans of Star Wars we should all be together. It shouldn't be one constant argument about which version is best or which trilogy is best because at the end of the day these are just opinions. It was a much better time to be a star wars fan before 1997 because all this backbiting and fighting never existed. It was a much more peaceful and enjoyable time, before the dark times..... before the......

I've seen the UOT like 500+ times I think I remember what they look like. I wanted to see something different and fresh..reason I liked what Lucas did with the SE and the current stuff. Those of us who saw the originals as they were don't need to see them that way anymore..that was history..time to move on to something new.


EDIT: before 1997 I had seen them at least 350+ times...

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by adywan

The thing is, if George hadn't decided to make the Special Editions then we would still have the same versions from over 30 years ago. Would people have suddenly stopped watching and enjoying them just because the FX aren't up to todays standards? Of course not.

If they were just 3 movies there would have been no need to change a thing, i agree. But as soon as George Lucas had decided to finally complete his Saga cause the technology had finally caught up with his imagination he HAD TO remaster the Sequels and as a gift to the fans he added some new scenes. How that can lead to such a backlash i will never understand. I also grew up with the OOT but I welcome the S.E. with all of my heart because the sequels now fuse better with the prequels. And watching the saga as a whole is such a grand experience. By the way: The S.E. is basically THE SAME MOVIES! I have exactly the same fond memories of my childhood-viewings when I watch the enhanced versions.

Originally Posted by adywan

The attitude that a minority of Star Wars fans have that "i don't care that the unaltered versions aren't being released, because i'm getting the version i want, so tough", is just typical of today's society. As long as number one is ok then who cares about anyone else. Surely because we are all fans of Star Wars we should all be together. It was a much better time to be a star wars fan before 1997 because all this *****ing and fighting never existed. It was a much more peaceful and enjoyable time, before the dark times..... before the......

I agree! It was a nicer experience to be a Star Wars Fan before the likes of you began to bring all their hate and frustration into the mix in 1999. It's not possible anymore to have a decent talk about the overall story, the mirroring scenes and characters and the spiritual meaning of the 6-part-saga. It's a sad state of affairs. We, the fans of Lucas' creation never left. I love Star Wars as much and even more than as a child. It's the relentless "haters" who destroy the whole experience for everyone.

[adywan]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

I've seen the UOT like 500+ times I think I remember what they look like. I wanted to see something different and fresh..reason I liked what Lucas did with the SE and the current stuff. Those of us who saw the originals as they were don't need to see them that way anymore..that was history..time to move on to something new.

But again that is just your opinion. Just because you wanted to see something different doesn't mean to say that every fan has to think the same. But if you say it is history and time to move onto something new then why are you still a Star Wars fan? shouldn't you have moved on to new movies now?

[The Apocalypse]

What about those of us who are frustrated and can understand others' frustration that the UOT is not being released, but are also pleased with this release nonetheless? What are we to Star Wars?

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

I've seen the UOT like 500+ times I think I remember what they look like. I wanted to see something different and fresh..reason I liked what Lucas did with the SE and the current stuff. Those of us who saw the originals as they were don't need to see them that way anymore..that was history..time to move on to something new.


EDIT: before 1997 I had seen them at least 350+ times...

Really? So every film should be changed? Jaws? The Exorcist; whatever? And the Originals should never been seen again? Hmm sounds good. Jeebus just go over to the rings and check that thread out for some minor color change....

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

If they were just 3 movies there would have been no need to change a thing, i agree. But as soon as George Lucas had decided to finally complete his Saga cause the technology had finally caught up with his imagination he HAD TO remaster the Sequels and as a gift to the fans he added some new scenes. How that can lead to such a backlash i will never understand. I also grew up with the OOT but I welcome the S.E. with all of my heart because the sequels now fuse better with the prequels. And watching the saga as a whole is such a grand experience. By the way: The S.E. is basically THE SAME MOVIES! I have exactly the same fond memories of my childhood-viewings when I watch the enhanced versions.

I agree! It was a nicer experience to be a Star Wars Fan before the likes of you began to bring all their hate and frustration into the mix in 1999. It's not possible anymore to have a decent talk about the overall story, the mirroring scenes and characters and the spiritual meaning of the 6-part-saga. It's a sad state of affairs. We, the fans of Lucas' creation never left. I love Star Wars as much and even more than as a child. It's the relentless "haters" who destroy the whole experience for everyone.

That is not why he decided to go back and make the prequels. Any fan of George Lucas knows that......it's basic info. He decided to finally go back because his kids were older. In 83 was burned out on Star Wars/ divorce. It had nothing to do with technology. He then created two crappy films in Howard the Duck and Willow. By the 90's the guy was a one trick pony and constantly re-releasing his Star Wars films over and over in different sets with different sound options.

[whaleman]

Originally Posted by adywan

The attitude that a minority of Star Wars fans have that "i don't care that the unaltered versions aren't being released, because i'm getting the version i want, so tough", is just typical of today's society. As long as number one is ok then who cares about anyone else. Surely because we are all fans of Star Wars we should all be together. It shouldn't be one constant argument about which version is best or which trilogy is best because at the end of the day these are just opinions. It was a much better time to be a star wars fan before 1997 because all this backbiting and fighting never existed. It was a much more peaceful and enjoyable time, before the dark times..... before the......

I agree. If GL ever decides to release the UOT remastered, then I think everyone will be happy. Until then, I think the die-hard fans who watched the originals for 20+ years before they were altered deserve to express their desire for the originals. This should not bother anyone who prefers the new versions, as you already have what you want. Nobody is on here saying, "Release the UOT and destroy all traces of the special editions!"

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by adywan

Now that is just not true. Of course they can remember what they looked like. don't you think they already have them thanks to the countless VHS/ Laserdisc releases? And they were also available in the 2006 DVD re-issue as a bonus disc albeit in horrendous quality for todays DVD standards .

The thing is, if George hadn't decided to make the Special Editions then we would still have the same versions from over 30 years ago. Would people have suddenly stopped watching and enjoying them just because the FX aren't up to todays standards? Of course not.

The attitude that a minority of Star Wars fans have that "i don't care that the unaltered versions aren't being released, because i'm getting the version i want, so tough", is just typical of today's society. As long as number one is ok then who cares about anyone else. Surely because we are all fans of Star Wars we should all be together. It shouldn't be one constant argument about which version is best or which trilogy is best because at the end of the day these are just opinions. It was a much better time to be a star wars fan before 1997 because all this backbiting and fighting never existed. It was a much more peaceful and enjoyable time, before the dark times..... before the......

If one is a big fan of these films and has seen them countless times, then one can probably detect every change. I saw the originals in a theatre, saw the special editions in a theatre, saw the originals on VHS perhaps three times and have seen pieces on TV from time to time, but I'm not convinced I can accurately tell what's been changed from the UOT with absolute certainty. The memory does play tricks on you.

Spike TV has been replaying the OT over this holiday weekend and I've been catching little pieces of it. I think I can tell which scenes have been altered because there's what I perceive to be tons of extra stuff going on behind the actors that I don't necessarily remember or the change seems abrupt - with different lighting, etc., but I don't know with 100% certainty. I'd probably have to compare shot by shot to know for sure.

Obviously, I don't know if the masters that Spike's version are sourced from are the ones that are being used for the Blu-ray release, but I have noticed that the color looks superb in Episode IV and VI, although probably more saturated than in the original release: the gold in C3PO and primary reds and blues on the set design really stand out, far more than I remember them looking in the theatrical releases (which is good or bad, depending upon your point of view). Flesh tones also look pretty good, EXCEPT in the scene in the trash compactor. Those scenes look like rock shows look when they only put dim red lights on the performers and you try and photograph it in very low light. But for some reason, Episode V looked far worse, at least the scenes I saw. They seemed desaturated and far less sharp.

Well, time will tell. Once people get hold of the actual BDs, I expect the indignant outrage on both sides to be incredible. We'll be lucky if this site doesn't blow up.

One area where I disagree with you and with others who have assert the same assumption is that "opinions are just opinions and everyone's is equal." There is a such thing as critical analysis and some opinions are more worthy than others because they're backed up by perspective, knowledge of film art, knowledge of film history and logical and critical writing skills. You can't tell me that the opinion of some Joe Slob, who hasn't read a book since leaving high school and thinks Transformers is the greatest film of all time is as worthy as the opinion of a great film critic like the late Pauline Kael or Andrew Sarris (or even the opinion of the pro reviewers on this site), even if I still disagree with the great critics opinions of many films.

One of the things I notice frequently on this site is that people hold on to their emotionally held opinions regardless of the facts presented to them. (This doesn't apply to Star Wars as much as it applies to such topics as to whether Blu-ray is ultimately going to be successful or not.)

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

Really? So every film should be changed? Jaws? The Exorcist; whatever? And the Originals should never been seen again? Hmm sounds good. Jeebus just go over to the rings and check that thread out for some minor color change....

Of course movies shouldn't be changed for the sake of it, and especially not by the studio or by fans at home. But behind every movie are human beings with different views. The Exorcist HAS been altered and both versions are included on the BluRay release. Ridley Scott has released several versions of Blade Runner - but just on DVD (exactly like Lucas by the way) and only ONE version - the Final Cut - on BluRay. George Lucas brings his own sensibility concerning his movies into the mix - and we should respect that because ultimately every new creative decision made by Lucas reveals some more information on the meaning of Star Wars. Should a fan not be interested in what the creator has to reveal on his work?

Imagine we would discover a hidden chapter of "The Lord Of The Rings" written by Tolkien himself with notes on how to include this chapter into the Trilogy. That would be a sensation that would amaze Billions of fans! Why is Star Wars different in that respect?

[The Apocalypse]

Roger Ebert quite liked the prequels, and I think he's an excellent film critic. In anycase, I must ask this. What constitutes a "die-hard" Star Wars fan? One who loves only the UOT, one who loves individually the prequels or originals, or one who loves everything? I have an idea, but it'll no doubt be different from another's perspective.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by EclipseSSD

Roger Ebert quite liked the prequels, and I think he's an excellent film critic. In anycase, I must ask this. What constitutes a "die-hard" Star Wars fan? One who loves only the UOT, one who loves individually the prequels or originals, or one who loves everything? I have an idea, but it'll no doubt be different from another's perspective.

Thats why he gave Clones 2 stars.....