Predator 3D Blu-ray (1987) [Region Locked]

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by Lemmy Lugosi

For every bad shot that gets pulled out, there are several as good as this one:

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ss=0#vergleich

...it's really nowhere near the earth-ending travesty some would have you believe it is.

In total darkness that shot is one of the uglier/grainier offenses in the 2008 release which for all intents and purposes will never look spectacle, but even with the grain mixed with digital noise and mediocre compression the 2008 version still looks way more natural and realistic. The 2010 UHE might look "cleaner" but with the removal of grain comes the removal of what little detail was stored in that frame to begin with. It now looks smoothed over and fake.

It's the same logic with this shot as well - http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

Again not one of the best looking moments on the 2008 Blu-Ray for much the same reasons as the Mac shot, and again the UHE looks "clearer" but it also wipes away the detail that the grain stored in that frame which makes it look so bad to the point that it boarders on artificial looking. The 2008 shot isn't pretty but at least it looks "real."

[raygendreau]

At present, there are 112 million households with HDTVs and 60 million households have blu-ray compatible devices.

AVS, Blu-ray.com, Home Theater Forum and Hi-Def Digest are the primary videophile forums with a current total membership of around 1.5 million. (AVS is the pack leader with 1 million+ members.) For the sake of discussion, let’s say all members are rabid videophiles and they all live in separate households and there are no multiple forum memberships. http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/07/y...videophile-if/

Conclusion, no more than 2.5% of blu-ray households are videophiles. The other 97.5% of blu-ray households are the target market for this 3D conversion catalogue release. That is the market most likely to be induced to adopt 3D home theater equipment. That is why the release is scheduled for mid December.

There is page after page of videophile rage in this thread over the blasphemy of 3D conversion, yet there is the unrealistic expectation that all the perceived wrongs of the UHE will be righted with this “all new 3D transfer”. I strongly recommend continued skepticism. Not only for the quality of the transfer, but the conversion as well.

[tylergfoster]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

There is page after page of videophile rage in this thread over the blasphemy of 3D conversion, yet there is the unrealistic expectation that all the perceived wrongs of the UHE will be righted with this “all new 3D transfer”. I strongly recommend continued skepticism. Not only for the quality of the transfer, but the conversion as well.

Nobody is really looking forward to the 3D transfer. They're looking forward to the possibility that there will be a new 2D transfer in here.

Also, again, it's not relevant that the public is not made up of videophiles. What you have to prove is that somehow doing a faithful transfer will actually cause that public to avoid buying the disc. That's the only reason a studio would "choose" one audience over another. The fact that the general public bought the UHE makes the UHE successful, but there is no reason to think that would deter 20th Century Fox from making a new transfer. There's also no proof that the legion of non-videophiles bought it specifically because it was DNRed. They bought it because it was Predator and it was the Blu-Ray that was easily found in stores. Just like many will buy this new one because it's Predator and it will be 3D and it will be easily found in stores (as you say, at Christmastime).

The whole point of bringing up the public as non-discerning is just that: they don't really care. That includes not avoiding releases that only a videophile would know is tailored to a videophile.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

At present, there are 112 million households with HDTVs and 60 million households have blu-ray compatible devices.

AVS, Blu-ray.com, Home Theater Forum and Hi-Def Digest are the primary videophile forums with a current total membership of around 1.5 million. (AVS is the pack leader with 1 million+ members.) For the sake of discussion, let’s say all members are rabid videophiles and they all live in separate households and there are no multiple forum memberships. http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/07/y...videophile-if/

Conclusion, no more than 2.5% of blu-ray households are videophiles. The other 97.5% of blu-ray households are the target market for this 3D conversion catalogue release. That is the market most likely to be induced to adopt 3D home theater equipment. That is why the release is scheduled for mid December.

There is page after page of videophile rage in this thread over the blasphemy of 3D conversion, yet there is the unrealistic expectation that all the perceived wrongs of the UHE will be righted with this “all new 3D transfer”. I strongly recommend continued skepticism. Not only for the quality of the transfer, but the conversion as well.

Lol since when have statistics been reliable and how is the expectation unrealistic when it's been proven that Fox are handling their catalog releases better than they did a few years back.

You're absolutely convinced that Fox aren't going to fix the transfer, what if they do, can the rest of us say "told you so".

There's no way in hell that only 2.5% of Blu-Ray households are videophiles. These forums pretty much back up that theory.

But you'll find something else to try and prove that me and other members in this thread that are wrong.

*Speaks with a Pirate accent* Give us ya best shot, I dare ya!

[bsweetness]

Originally Posted by tylergfoster

Nobody is really looking forward to the 3D transfer. They're looking forward to the possibility that there will be a new 2D transfer in here.

[Show spoiler]Also, again, it's not relevant that the public is not made up of videophiles. What you have to prove is that somehow doing a faithful transfer will actually cause that public to avoid buying the disc. That's the only reason a studio would "choose" one audience over another. The fact that the general public bought the UHE makes the UHE successful, but there is no reason to think that would deter 20th Century Fox from making a new transfer. There's also no proof that the legion of non-videophiles bought it specifically because it was DNRed. They bought it because it was Predator and it was the Blu-Ray that was easily found in stores. Just like many will buy this new one because it's Predator and it will be 3D and it will be easily found in stores (as you say, at Christmastime).

The whole point of bringing up the public as non-discerning is just that: they don't really care. That includes not avoiding releases that only a videophile would know is tailored to a videophile.

I am. The prospect of a solid 2D remaster is of greater interest to me, but I think the 3D has the potential to be a lot of fun.

[Jegærn]

Originally Posted by tylergfoster

Nobody is really looking forward to the 3D transfer. They're looking forward to the possibility that there will be a new 2D transfer in here.

Ehhhh... I do. The jungle enviroment could sparcle in 3D if this is done the right way. If they make the depth great this could be a winner in 3D.

If they do the 3d like titanic or Jurassic park and they do the same cleanup as Aliens with a tiny layer of grain on top this could be the ultimate Predator release. Let`s hope they do a good job on it.

[gates70]

Originally Posted by Jegærn

Ehhhh... I do. The jungle enviroment could sparcle in 3D if this is done the right way. If they make the depth great this could be a winner in 3D.

If they do the 3d like titanic or Jurassic park and they do the same cleanup as Aliens with a tiny layer of grain on top this could be the ultimate Predator release. Let`s hope they do a good job on it.

So am I and so are a lot of other people. Don't know what he's talking about.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

Lol since when have statistics been reliable and how is the expectation unrealistic when it's been proven that Fox are handling their catalog releases better than they did a few years back.

You're absolutely convinced that Fox aren't going to fix the transfer, what if they do, can the rest of us say "told you so".

There's no way in hell that only 2.5% of Blu-Ray households are videophiles. These forums pretty much back up that theory.

But you'll find something else to try and prove that me and other members in this thread that are wrong.

*Speaks with a Pirate accent* Give us ya best shot, I dare ya!

“HDTV penetration to date is now at more than 112.6 million U.S. households. The number of Blu-ray homes continues to grow, with 3.2 million players sold in the first quarter (including BD set-tops, PS3s and HTiBs). Total household penetration of all Blu-ray compatible devices is close to 60 million U.S. homes.”

http://www.redhillgroup.com/2013/06/...digital-sales/

Membership AVS 1,087,166 HTF 122,665 BR.com 234,429 HDD 32,204. Obviously many people are members of more than one of these forums. Believe it or not, they are not all videophiles. I’m being generous when I say there are 1.5 million videophiles. Today, they represent a small subset of blu-ray households.

The studios use market research to make financial decisions. Fox is top loaded with marketing execs. It is a marketing driven studio and they are very successful.

I'm not "convinced" that they aren't going to "fix" the transfer. I am convinced that the only emphasis on this "all new 3D transfer" is 3D.

The only hope rests on the likelihood that improvements in the JVC Kenwood automated conversion process will lead to a better 3D experience than was had in I, Robot 3D which was the first selection in this series of catalogue conversions.

It is thought that the recently released Jumper 3D (UK) was also JVC autoconverted. This post offers some hope:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=49

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by tylergfoster

Nobody is really looking forward to the 3D transfer. They're looking forward to the possibility that there will be a new 2D transfer in here.

Originally Posted by bsweetness

I am. The prospect of a solid 2D remaster is of greater interest to me, but I think the 3D has the potential to be a lot of fun.

Originally Posted by Jegærn

Ehhhh... I do. The jungle enviroment could sparcle in 3D if this is done the right way. If they make the depth great this could be a winner in 3D.

If they do the 3d like titanic or Jurassic park and they do the same cleanup as Aliens with a tiny layer of grain on top this could be the ultimate Predator release. Let`s hope they do a good job on it.

Originally Posted by gates70

So am I and so are a lot of other people. Don't know what he's talking about.

Tyler is almost right. There aren't very many people interested in 3D. And the sad fact is that many people, some estimate as high as 41% of people with 3D capable TVs have never used the function and about half of them don't even know they have a 3D TV.

"The number of 3D TV home sets is going to increase from 13.5 million in 2012 to over 100 million by 2017, according to Informa Telecoms & Media. Asia Pacific will have the most 3D TV homes by 2017 with 49.6 million, followed by North America with 33.2 million homes and Western Europe with 18.3 million, according to Informa's latest 3DTV report." http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?id=4667

The 13.5 million 3D households are the primary target market for this release. The 100 million 2017 estimate will be a pipe dream if the adoption rate can't be increased. The studios and equipment manufacturers believe the adoption rate is low because there isn't enough 3D product available. This release and I, Robot, using the JVC process is an attempt to find an economical way to add 3D content to the 3D base.

Jegærn. It isn't going to happen. It took 400 people and an estimated $18 million for the Titanic conversion. The JVC process used for this release will take 3 people 3 months at a cost of around $2 million for this conversion. Read the following article and you will understand what they are doing and why they are doing it.

"Current 2D 3D conversions can cost $50-70,000 per minute meaning feature films can cost $10-15m and take 600-700 people nine months or so to produce," said Susumu Sakakibara, Director Video-Tech and General Manager Business Development, JVC. "With this service a feature like I Robot can take three people three months to convert at a third of the price."

http://www.tvbeurope.com/theworkflow...l#.UhUly77n_IV

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

..Show me some proof that Fox has stopped using DNR on their catalogue transfers.

For the record, the dnr *work* on that version of Predator was performed by Point.360 Digital Film Labs using a system they call ‘ART’ (http://www.point360.com/Service_Digi...storation.html ), which was originally software written as a spark for Autodesk systems (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...12&id=17658258 )

I’ve heard that ‘Fox’ no longer favors that solution for texture control.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

a spark

^ meaning a plugin.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For the record, the dnr *work* on that version of Predator was performed by Point.360 Digital Film Labs using a system they call ‘ART’ (http://www.point360.com/Service_Digi...storation.html ), which was originally software written as a spark for Autodesk systems (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...12&id=17658258 )

I’ve heard that ‘Fox’ no longer favors that solution for texture control.

Given the frugal business model for the Fox-JVC auto conversion, what's your best guess on what they might have done, if anything, on digital restoration for the 3D remaster? What is Fox using now for DNR/texture control?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’ve heard that ‘Fox’ no longer favors that solution for texture control.

It's quite evident on their more recent catalog titles.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Given the frugal business model for the Fox-JVC auto conversion, what's your best guess on what they might have done, if anything, on digital restoration for the 3D remaster?

I’d have to ask as I don’t know, so I’d prefer not to speculate. But I will say that the ‘ART’ solution was also used on this Warners’ title, so it is/was not exclusively a ‘Fox’ thing - https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/AC-DC.../20680/#Review

[wesslan]

Japan gets a nicer edition with all Predator movies. Very expensive as usual though.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/Predator-Complete-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B00EJIRWMS?SubscriptionId=AKIAIY4YSQJMFDJATNBA&tag =bluraycom-22&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creative ASIN=B00EJIRWMS&m=AN1VRQENFRJN5

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by wesslan

Japan gets a nicer edition with all Predator movies. Very expensive as usual though.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/Predator-Complete-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B00EJIRWMS?SubscriptionId=AKIAIY4YSQJMFDJATNBA&tag =bluraycom-22&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creative ASIN=B00EJIRWMS&m=AN1VRQENFRJN5

I wouldn't be surprised if that becomes a Foxconnect.com exclusive in the US.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’d have to ask as I don’t know, so I’d prefer not to speculate. But I will say that the ‘ART’ solution was also used on this Warners’ title, so it is/was not exclusively a ‘Fox’ thing - https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/AC-DC.../20680/#Review

Hope you have someone to ask at Fox that is not PR or Marketing.

[SidneyFalco]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

This statement attributed to Belston in the linked article indicates making a 4K scan is common practice for the Fox archives and has been for several years:

*Most classic films in a studio library are not available on DCP. If an archive or cinematheque or theatre wants one, there are ways to make on-demand DCPs. But it’s not cheap. A 2K scan runs $40,000; a 4K scan, somewhat more. Schawn opts for 4K because a digital version should be the best possible. It might be the last chance to make one!"

Show me some proof that Fox has stopped using DNR on their catalogue transfers. I've already told you that the criticism of the UHE was officially rejected by Fox and that their choices during the mastering process have been validated by sales.

Obviously the quality of labs and machine's vary, but this lab in Hollywood will scan a 90 minute feature in 4K for $5,000. That's just the scan, not including any post work, but it's considerably less than $40,000 for 2K.

http://www.hdsoundandpicture.com/HDSP/WELCOME.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Hope you have someone to ask at Fox that is not PR or Marketing.

I tend to involve myself with others having a more scientific approach….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ce#post8035557

Even though everybody wants to work in marketing -

Go Daddy Super Bowl XLI Commercial Ad for 2007 - YouTube

[swaseem]

I can do without the predator bust. Pre-ordered from amazon uk! Really looking forward to this.