The Official Energy Speakers Thread

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Originally Posted by arrt vandelay

i'll be interested in what you think of them. i love my c-500s, but lately i've been looking around at other brands and the step-up rc series. there's always something better...

I may be in the minority here, not sure, but I don't personally find the RC series as sonically advanced over C-series as price (and hardware specs) would indicate, especially being driven by a mid range AVR which most of us have.

For example, c-500s at FS were normally just under $900 for the pair before the new cfs came out, and would go on sale sometimes for $400 for the pair. The RC 50S were usally going for close to $2000 for the pair and would sometimes go on sale for around $1500 for the pair.

That's a HUGE difference in cost for what on a mid range AVR amounts to superior cosmetics, and a slightly cleaner high end.

I wouldn't upgrade from c-series to RC. It's not enough of an upgrade. When I upgrade, it's going to be a HUGE uprade.

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Dylan_Hunt

I may be in the minority here, not sure, but I don't personally find the RC series as sonically advanced over C-series as price would indicate, especially being driven by a mid range AVR which most of us have.

For example, c-500s at FS were normally just under $900 for the pair before the new cfs came out, and would go on sale sometimes for $400 for the pair. The RC 50S were usally going for close to $2000 for the pair and would sometimes go on sale for around $1500 for the pair.

That's a HUGE difference in cost for what on a mid range AVR amounts to superior cosmetics, and a slightly cleaner high end.

I wouldn't upgrade from c-series to RC. It's not enough of an upgrade. When I upgrade, it's going to be a HUGE uprade.

Capt, This may be true and I would not have paid with that price différence but I saw somewhere on the comments in FS product reviews for the RC-10 that a guy had changed C-200 for a pair of RC-10 and made a tremendous difference in SQ. I would have been able to put my hands on em for 199$ a pair but I already had the entire C-series.

The FS listening room don't really give justice to the speakers I find. Considering the price on RC-30 now I would buy them for 299$ each floor models.

In my case I might end up going the Totem route.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

You did not find a dealer yet or what? What's your zip Steve I sure will find one for ya

What about these guys?

http://www.cinematechometheater.com/

i will have to try them

[Lij]

Originally Posted by callas01

Welcome to the site, You have a very nice setup. I was always curious if the IIz would be worth while, I guess as it becomes more mainstream.

Thank you, all...

When those two helicopters crashed onscreen I thought something was coming through the ceiling of the house. The way IIz is portrayed (even with the Audyssey setup on my Denon) I should have two speakers that match up well with the RC-70 fronts I have. Well, one would wish everything to be perfect, but it rarely is; especially when fitting a surround sound system into a family room that was not designed with such a sound system in mind. I had originally bought the C-R100s to place on the walls as surrounds, but they would have to go up just under the eight foot level. That put the right side one near the ceiling but the left one 4 foot below the ceiling which slopes upward to that side.

I placed the speakers temporarily and just ran wire through the room (before attempting to go up the wall and then down through the ceiling). I didn't like the sound. So I went to plan 'B' which was two RC-10s on stands (something the lady of the house wasn't happy about). But they sound great. Now I had the two C-R100s on my hands and decided to try them out as the IIz. Then I ran into trouble running wire through the wall (some unexpected blocking and wiring) and that almost made me quit; but I bought some ivory wire chase, painted it brown to match the panelling and it doesn't look half bad.

The IIz C-R100s aren't spread out at 45 degrees (from the listener) like is suggested (they are almost in line with the RC-70s) and like I said before they sure are not exactly voice matched with the RC-70s. But I think being off in that respect (and possibly because they are dipoles - another no-no) it seems that when they perform... you notice them.

Speaking of discounts in the Energy line, I got my 7.1 system at 45% of MSRP. But over the last month or so I have noticed that most of those discounts have evaporated or the Energys have sold out.
...

[callas01]

Originally Posted by Lij

Thank you, all...

Speaking of discounts in the Energy line, I got my 7.1 system at 45% of MSRP. But over the last month or so I have noticed that most of those discounts have evaporated or the Energys have sold out.
...

I know there is talk of possibly seeing a new RC line sometime soon, and also I believe that they might have been trying to move some slow moving inventory in the rosenut and cherry finishes.

[Bluray_ne1]

Originally Posted by callas01

I know there is talk of possibly seeing a new RC line sometime soon, and also I believe that they might have been trying to move some slow moving inventory in the rosenut and cherry finishes.

I'm interested to see what they come up with (new RC line). I'm sure they'll sound terrific. I wonder what they'll look like?

It's surprising to me that the cherry and rosenut versions of the current RC series are so slow-moving given how beautiful they are. I personally found them more desirable than the black ash, but that's my taste.

The prices at Vann's have been incredibly low on them lately and as a result, most of the cherry and rosenut are now out of stock.

[callas01]

You may be waiting a whole other year or more, One would have expected them to anounce it at the CEDIA convention, but since that didn't happen, the TALK may just be talk at the moment.... and may have be spurred on by the new CF series.

I say slow moving, but really I don't know what the motivation for allow authorized dealers to move product so cheaply was, I would just have imagined that with the slow economy it would be a good way to incentivise dealers and consumers to jump on product that perhaps wasn't going to sell so quickly.

[Bluray_ne1]

Originally Posted by callas01

I say slow moving, but really I don't know what the motivation for allow authorized dealers to move product so cheaply was, I would just have imagined that with the slow economy it would be a good way to incentivise dealers and consumers to jump on product that perhaps wasn't going to sell so quickly.

I think there's wisdom in that statement. Makes sense to me.

Still, why not do it for all the RC products, rather than just the cherry and rosenut? Perhaps there is more of a regular steady market for speakers with a black finish, whereas the stained wood grain stuff has a more limited following. I don't know, I'm just guessing. I'm by no means an expert (or a novice, for that matter) on market trends.

[callas01]

I would assume like you said, the black move faster in general, I would think that the Rosenut would move faster then the Cherry too... but that is my preference....

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

Capt, This may be true and I would not have paid with that price différence but I saw somewhere on the comments in FS product reviews for the RC-10 that a guy had changed C-200 for a pair of RC-10 and made a tremendous difference in SQ. I would have been able to put my hands on em for 199$ a pair but I already had the entire C-series.

The FS listening room don't really give justice to the speakers I find. Considering the price on RC-30 now I would buy them for 299$ each floor models.

In my case I might end up going the Totem route.

Higher cost speakers often cause a placebo effect. (Just look at all the people who love Bose untill they are educated) There is not a "tremendous" difference in SQ between the RCs and C-series imo. RCs are better. Both lines were manufactered around the same time, and share many similarities. Two different animals yes, but the c-series is basically a cheaper, toned down version of the RCs. Soundstage, imaging, and overall tonality are close. The only thing I notice that really stands out is a cleaner high end. It's easy to look at the RC's specs and have your mind play tricks on you.

I have also read more objective reviews where people directly compared c-200s to RC10s. The RC10s are always said to be better, but in no review that seems non bias or cost justifying, does it really say there is a huge difference. I read one review of CB20s where the guy basically said CB20s were better than RC10s. It wasn't a pro review but you can read it in this thread by a poster called "wiredracing" He seems very knowledgable and updated the review after different stages of listening:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=99457

FS product reviews are often full just average people trying to justify a purchase. Not objective non bias listeners like Callas for example. If Callas said there was a "tremendous" difference, I would actually beleive it and go back and try to give them another listen.

Ihave read some comments where people perceive c-series sounding better off of lower end receivers than RC series too, so it also depends on what is driving them. I have also heard the RC series and defatinely don't notice a "tremendous" improvement.

$199 for a pair of RC10s is definately an aweosme deal though. Hell, RC minis are listed for $250 right now at FS, and CB20s are $350. People are charging more than 199 a pair for used RC10s on CAM. Some deals you get though just don't happen for the rest of us Canadians lol. I gurantee not very many people were able to get c-500s for $200 CAD, or even for $300 CAD new as the final markdown, they just sold out too quick. The c-500s were really hard to get for less than $500 TOTAL cost, from any retailer, for the pair for most Canadians. The American prices that looked all sweet easily racked up to around $500+ for the pair CAD. They did go on sale for $399 for the pair a few times a FS though before the final clearnance of them, but even then they sold out so quick it was almost impossible to find any. But Im off topic now.

And yeah $600 for a pair of RC30s is also a good price. Smaller woofer size than the c-500s though, and won't handle the low end quite as well, but combined with a sub, definately an improvement over c-500s. But "tremendous"? ... I guess my interpretation of that word is different. But definately worth the $100 in price over the averaged out price of $500 CAD that was paid for the c500s by most people. I paid $400 CAD.

[callas01]

Wow Capt.

I haven't been able to hear the RC series, but what I have found is that typically there aren't major increases in speakers when from the same company to the point that makes you go OH WOW, I have to have those.

For instance, when I listened to the Dali's I heard the Concepts and the Ikons. The Ikons had a ribbon tweeter a soft dome tweeter and 6.5" woofers. the Concept 8s had a soft dome tweeter and 8" woofers. Concepts were $1300/pr list, and the Ikons $3500/pr list. Personally I felt the highs got better on the Ikons, but low-end and detail and depth were equal. So I am paying almost $2k more for a ribbon tweeter and higher highs? For me I would never justify that added expense.

Also look at Rded, he has Dynaudio speakers and his are like a $5k pair... but he said he heard the $30k/pr flagship setup and between he and the dealer they determined that his speakers were 75% of what the flagships were, at a fraction of the price.

I think this is always a very common situation. Have you heard the Polk TSis? and the Polk RTis? I would not bring myself to buy the RTi's. Maybe it was the Denon that was pushing the speakers but to me the TSis were the exact same speaker as the RTis.

Also to really know what the difference between a speaker is, you need to hear them in the same environment, with the same equipment pushing them, using the same reference material, etc.

Without having heard the RC series, I would expect them to be exactly what you said. A better version of the C series. Perhaps better highs, slightly deeper lows, but tonality about the same. I hope Imaging is the same. It better be since they all use the same tweeter, I would expect a more accurate speaker, esp. with the kevlar woofers over the fiberglass ones on the C series. But a tremendous sound difference, NO. But detail in the sound and replication and better highs and lows, YES.

Nice write up Capt. I love intellectual talk. Thanks

[BigAl87]

Capt,

We agree on that I was quoting what the guy said and looking at expert reviews rc-10 were rated the best bookshelf speaker under 1000$ us back in 2006 by Sondstage and the price tag was 550 us back then so it has to be good. Does it justify the double price tag compare to c-200, I don't think so myself as I said.

I did not have a chance to listen to the RC in my living room so I can't really compare and I also did not find a big difference in store between the 2 lines but FS is not the best place to listen to speakers.

Anyway best bang for the buck to me is the C-series but if you ask me now I would buy RC considering the deals you can get on em.

I wish I could be more concise sometimes but it's that language barrier, I undersatnd what you guys are saying it's just that I have trouble finding the right words to desbribe sound.

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by callas01

Wow Capt.

I haven't been able to hear the RC series, but what I have found is that typically there aren't major increases in speakers when from the same company to the point that makes you go OH WOW, I have to have those.

For instance, when I listened to the Dali's I heard the Concepts and the Ikons. The Ikons had a ribbon tweeter a soft dome tweeter and 6.5" woofers. the Concept 8s had a soft dome tweeter and 8" woofers. Concepts were $1300/pr list, and the Ikons $3500/pr list. Personally I felt the highs got better on the Ikons, but low-end and detail and depth were equal. So I am paying almost $2k more for a ribbon tweeter and higher highs? For me I would never justify that added expense.

Also look at Rded, he has Dynaudio speakers and his are like a $5k pair... but he said he heard the $30k/pr flagship setup and between he and the dealer they determined that his speakers were 75% of what the flagships were, at a fraction of the price.

I think this is always a very common situation. Have you heard the Polk TSis? and the Polk RTis? I would not bring myself to buy the RTi's. Maybe it was the Denon that was pushing the speakers but to me the TSis were the exact same speaker as the RTis.

Also to really know what the difference between a speaker is, you need to hear them in the same environment, with the same equipment pushing them, using the same reference material, etc.

Without having heard the RC series, I would expect them to be exactly what you said. A better version of the C series. Perhaps better highs, slightly deeper lows, but tonality about the same. I hope Imaging is the same. It better be since they all use the same tweeter, I would expect a more accurate speaker, esp. with the kevlar woofers over the fiberglass ones on the C series. But a tremendous sound difference, NO. But detail in the sound and replication and better highs and lows, YES.

Nice write up Capt. I love intellectual talk. Thanks

Let's put it this way it's the same story with Totem speakers ranging from 1500$ to 13 000 a pair for Floor Standers, The manager in store said look the are all high end speakers if you ask but each have their own personality as none of the speaker in the line are sharing the same drivers.

Now I wonder how to justify the price tag of 13 000$

[sewerdog]

in anyones opinion which is the better speaker system the jbl's are smaller in every way the speaker inside is about 2.5 inches the classic is about 3.5 inches the jbl's sound great will the classics sound better the receiver is a small onkyo 302

[callas01]

Originally Posted by sewerdog

in anyones opinion which is the better speaker system the jbl's are smaller in every way the speaker inside is about 2.5 inches the classic is about 3.5 inches the jbl's sound great will the classics sound better the receiver is a small onkyo 302

well the size of the driver is going to allow more air to be pushed and thus should end up with a better response and better sound. Also, are the JBLs in a plastic encloser or wood? Wood is better, so if they are in plastic, I would have to immediately say the Energys. Everyone that I know that has the Take system says it plays a lot better then most satelite systems they have heard. So take that for what it is.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

Let's put it this way it's the same story with Totem speakers ranging from 1500$ to 13 000 a pair for Floor Standers, The manager in store said look the are all high end speakers if you ask but each have their own personality as none of the speaker in the line are sharing the same drivers.

Now I wonder how to justify the price tag of 13 000$

interesting considering that they buy their drivers from dynaudio. even tho they dont share the same drivers doesn't mean that they don't share similar tonalities and other things. Notice each speaker brand has their certian sound.

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

Capt,

We agree on that I was quoting what the guy said and looking at expert reviews rc-10 were rated the best bookshelf speaker under 1000$ us back in 2006 by Sondstage and the price tag was 550 us back then so it has to be good. Does it justify the double price tag compare to c-200, I don't think so myself as I said.

I did not have a chance to listen to the RC in my living room so I can't really compare and I also did not find a big difference in store between the 2 lines but FS is not the best place to listen to speakers.

Anyway best bang for the buck to me is the C-series but if you ask me now I would buy RC considering the deals you can get on em.

I wish I could be more concise sometimes but it's that language barrier, I undersatnd what you guys are saying it's just that I have trouble finding the right words to desbribe sound.

I don't think there is much of a language barrier going on here. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's always harder to communicate this way vs orally. I wasn't arguing with you at all, I was just sort of replying to the general topic and giving my opinion. No argument with what you said.

[slimmer]

Went out and purchased the CF-50s last night from FS. Made sure to remind staff that I'd spent a few thousand there in the last year and low and behold, I got the speakers for 1/2 of what they're currently listed at online.

Won't be able to give a synopsis for a while, as I'm going to wait until I have the current fronts (Take Classic) installed as my surrounds. Never thought I'd go 7.1, but...

[callas01]

Originally Posted by slimmer

Went out and purchased the CF-50s last night from FS. Made sure to remind staff that I'd spent a few thousand there in the last year and low and behold, I got the speakers for 1/2 of what they're currently listed at online.

Won't be able to give a synopsis for a while, as I'm going to wait until I have the current fronts (Take Classic) installed as my surrounds. Never thought I'd go 7.1, but...

Congratulations!

Earlier you said you couldn't get a read on them, I take it you went back and relistened, what was your feeling and what made you get them?

Awesome man, I think you are the first person here with the CFs. Are you planning on adding the CC-10 also. I would say that would be the next step so your front sound stage matches. So the Pair costed you about $500 CAD? Good Job.

You definetly have to let us know how they sound. Are they warm and laidback, are they bright and in your face, are the highs tinny sounding, all of those questions tend to be what the focus of most reviews and some have said one thing or the other concerning them.... Would be curious to know how the sound compares to the Take system you have. Have you heard the C-500s or C-300s and how do they compare.

[slimmer]

Callas - Thank you, thank you!

Went back last night for something completely unrelated; at least thats what I told the better-half. I've listened to a few in the last few months.

For some reason, FS has been rather light in Energy floor standing models lately. Staff tried to push some Klipsch RF-10 at me (floor models, 4 months old, full warranty) for an incredible price, but I found them rather..."tinny".

Listened to the Polk RTIA5s and found it not unlike the CF-50s, but preferred that Energy speakers as they were most definitely warmer than the Polks and...what I felt...a nicer bottom end. That said, I've always thought Energys sounded brighter than other brands. They performed well with acoustic as well as grungy/electronic music. Neither here nor there really, as my system is 90/10 movies/music.

And yes, I immediately started looking at a new centre! CC-10 is a possibility, but I also want to look at the RC mini 2-way.

Also picked up the YDS-11 iPod dock for my avr - with the most convoluted set-up I've ever seen.