Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

I'm going to go and do some late night grocery shopping now. I'll be sure to ask the clerks I can corner about the present state of digital content and its future.

[alchav21]

Vilya don't get your stuff in a bunch, there is no need for name calling. We should respect each other on these sites, and everyone has an opinion. You go off on these Rants that are really uncalled for, do you see me calling you any names. We have uncovered a lot of information since this Thread was started, the main one being Bitrate for Disc Quality. Blu-ray is 40Mbps max with 20Mbps average, very easily achieved by any high end Provider. As for the future of Video, 4K was 4X1080 why not 16K or 32K!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Collectors like yourself go crazy on buying Discs.

Telling me that doing what I enjoy is "crazy" is not exactly being respectful.

Calling you out for behaving like a troll, when you behave like one, is a fact that is easily documented, nothing more. You like to have your questions answered, so answer this one: how many times in this thread alone have you told us that: "no wants disc", "disc is dead", and "disc is dying?" Take your time; counting that high will take you awhile.

You use this website like a farmer uses a manure spreader; you spread the same crap often and you spread it wide. Unlike a farmer, though, the manure you spread here serves no useful purpose.

Saying you are wrong, when you are, is also simply a fact.

The blu-ray disc bitrate average is actually 24.9Mbps; next time you google the subject, trying reading the accompanying graph. If this is so easy to achieve for streaming providers, why hasn't it been done?

I just call it as I see it.

[Groot]

This is like watching Kanye argue with himself...

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Boy I must hit a nerve with you, I just call it as I see it. I buy and sell on eBay, and I use to sell "Like New" Resent Releases for almost the Market Price. This is not the case anymore, Blu-rays are less than $5 and UHD is less than $10. Most people just want to watch the Movie at a reasonable price, Disc or Digital. Collectors like yourself go crazy on buying Discs. The 4K Forums are full of people buying 4K Discs of all their Blu-ray Collection, and not thinking twice. I just perfer Digital HD, but if you want Disc go for it! I know they have 8K, but I think the next Format will be 16K or 32K. For this it will be SSD or Server.....No more Discs!

Originally Posted by veritas

Part of your problem is you are selling on eBay the bootleg capital of the world. You are also removing the digital copy which is basically the only thing not bootleg-able so you are basically competing with bootleg prices.

I have been selling on eBay for over a Decade, and you get to know the Sellers and I have never bought from a Bootlegger, they weed them out pretty fast. You learn to spot the dishonest ones very fast. I don't know where you guys get your information, but eBay is very clean. They have a good system like here where you rate Buyers and Sellers. I sell my Discs at Best Offer to a certain level until they sell. I use to sell the Discs at just below Market Price, even with the Digital Copy not included but now it seems they want it too. So yes I feel Discs have lost their value.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I have been selling on eBay for over a Decade, and you get to know the Sellers and I have never bought from a Bootlegger, they weed them out pretty fast. You learn to spot the dishonest ones very fast. I don't know where you guys get your information, but eBay is very clean. They have a good system like here where you rate Buyers and Sellers. I sell my Discs at Best Offer to a certain level until they sell. I use to sell the Discs at just below Market Price, even with the Digital Copy not included but now it seems they want it too. So yes I feel Discs have lost their value.

Do you even attempt to do any research? ebay has massive problems with bootleg dvds and blu-rays being sold through their website. They also have huge problems with counterfeit luxury goods being sold on their website. ebay is practically a synonym for fake.

Doing a search about bootleg movies on ebay returns a mere 481,000 hits. You could spend days, even weeks, pouring through the reports. Or, we can just dismiss all of that and just accept on your word that ebay is "very clean." You elevate naivete to new heights.

If you think used discs have lost a lot of their resale value, consider the value of a used digital code. That's right: they have none.

Most movie buffs that collect discs do not sell their discs in the first place. We buy them because we want to own them. It is a fundamental principle behind the concept of making a purchase and building a collection.

I, and many other collectors, donate duplicates to family, friends, libraries, or hospitals. We buy movies to enjoy them; they are not an investment.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Boy I must hit a nerve with you, I just call it as I see it. I buy and sell on eBay, and I use to sell "Like New" Resent Releases for almost the Market Price. This is not the case anymore, Blu-rays are less than $5 and UHD is less than $10. Most people just want to watch the Movie at a reasonable price, Disc or Digital. Collectors like yourself go crazy on buying Discs. The 4K Forums are full of people buying 4K Discs of all their Blu-ray Collection, and not thinking twice. I just perfer Digital HD, but if you want Disc go for it! I know they have 8K, but I think the next Format will be 16K or 32K. For this it will be SSD or Server.....No more Discs!

What movies are in 8K? Even the movies shot on 70mm IMAX film were only equivalent to around 6K. Even then, most directors are not even using film anymore. Only a few like Tarantino, Spielberg, Christopher Nolan, Wes Anderson are. I'm hearing more movies being shot digitally in 6K on those ARRI Alexa 65's. So what would even be the point of buying 8K, 16K, 32K, etc if they are all just upscales? I and most others are perfectly happy with 1080P, some want 4K and that's fine. I myself still buy discs but I find my collection growing larger and larger and honestly I feel VUDU is a pretty good service and might move to buying all my movies digitally so long as VUDU works on all my devices. People who worry about 8K, 16K, 32K remind me of the people who buy 24-bit/96khz music even though there is no audible difference compared to the same master on a CD.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Vilya don't get your stuff in a bunch, there is no need for name calling. We should respect each other on these sites, and everyone has an opinion. You go off on these Rants that are really uncalled for, do you see me calling you any names. We have uncovered a lot of information since this Thread was started, the main one being Bitrate for Disc Quality. Blu-ray is 40Mbps max with 20Mbps average, very easily achieved by any high end Provider. As for the future of Video, 4K was 4X1080 why not 16K or 32K!

Which of the mainstream providers like iTunes, VUDU, Amazon, Netflix, etc, provide streaming bitrates that match the disc equivalent? From what you told us, only Sony Ultra does. As for 16K or 32K, because it's unnecessary given no movies are shot at those resolutions or even near them so it would be totally pointless. Kind of like buying 24-bit music even though 16-bits and 44.1khz provides enough dynamic range and frequency response for the entire possibility of human hearing.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I have been selling on eBay for over a Decade, and you get to know the Sellers and I have never bought from a Bootlegger, they weed them out pretty fast. You learn to spot the dishonest ones very fast. I don't know where you guys get your information, but eBay is very clean. They have a good system like here where you rate Buyers and Sellers. I sell my Discs at Best Offer to a certain level until they sell. I use to sell the Discs at just below Market Price, even with the Digital Copy not included but now it seems they want it too. So yes I feel Discs have lost their value.

Bootlegging is a HUGE problem on ebay and even the Amazon market place. Shout Factory even has a section of their website warning about this:

https://www.shoutfactory.com/blog/co...leg-media-faq/

I know that this is only Shout Factory's website, and not a source that you personally tend to put more stock in like talking with a random yokel at Walmart, but this is a very real problem.

Bootlegs are getting more sophisticated, especially in terms of packaging. More often than not the quality of the on-disc content is sub-par, often compressed to fit on discs with smaller data sizes (i.e. single layer DVD-Rs).

And even when/if the quality is on par with the official release, the biggest problem, of course, is the fact that it is a bootleg being sold, and not the official release, which is not good for the studios, distributors, and so forth.

For those not "in the know," it is easy to be fooled by a bootleg listing that looks legit, and it is hard to tell the difference until it is too late. And if someone buys something to add to their collection, but doesn't watch it immediately, they may not even realize that they've been screwed over until long after the fact, and won't be able to open an ebay case at that point.

These issues just make many people who are aware of them more reluctant to use ebay for such things, even for items that may well be the real deal because they don't want to roll the dice and take a risk. And that just makes it more difficult for someone like yourself to sell your discs.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Which of the mainstream providers like iTunes, VUDU, Amazon, Netflix, etc, provide streaming bitrates that match the disc equivalent? From what you told us, only Sony Ultra does.

According to rtings.com, Sony Ultra averages just 16Mbps, the same as practically every other streaming provider. Only Apple 4K TV has been documented as having bitrates as high as 30Mbps for their 4K streams.

Of course, he claims some customer service representative at Sony has told him that Sony Ultra has bitrates in the 20s. This claim has not been verified by any reputable source. His claims are rarely verifiable.

We have his second hand account or the rtings.com report to choose from on this question. I find that I believe the latter.

The link to that report is in one of my earlier posts; I can dig it up again if necessary.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Going forward? Where have you been for the last several decades?

Broadcasters have been editing film for content and language and length and for all manner of reasons for as long as there have been broadcasters.

Oh but yes, this time will be different. This time the threat du jour really will bring about the ruination of everything we love and boy will we be sorry for mocking the visionaries who tried to warn us.

Oh well, sucks to be us.

Research Object Based Broadcasting and get back to me. The BBC are the pioneers I believe. It will be global in my opinion. Catch up will prove more popular than the long form original broadcast, mark my words. Leading to..............short form winning out.
There is even talk of a catch up website and streaming service from the industry. That won’t take long to catch on across the board.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Vilya don't get your stuff in a bunch, there is no need for name calling. We should respect each other on these sites, and everyone has an opinion. You go off on these Rants that are really uncalled for, do you see me calling you any names. We have uncovered a lot of information since this Thread was started, the main one being Bitrate for Disc Quality. Blu-ray is 40Mbps max with 20Mbps average, very easily achieved by any high end Provider. As for the future of Video, 4K was 4X1080 why not 16K or 32K!

Average bit rates for Blu-ray discs are mid-upper 20's.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Vilya

According to rtings.com, Sony Ultra averages just 16Mbps, the same as practically every other streaming provider. Only Apple 4K TV has been documented as having bitrates as high as 30Mbps for their 4K streams.

Of course, he claims some customer service representative at Sony has told him that Sony Ultra has bitrates in the 20s. This claim has not been verified by any reputable source. His claims are rarely verifiable.

We have his second hand account or the rtings.com report to choose from on this question. I find that I believe the latter.

The link to that report is in one of my earlier posts; I can dig it up again if necessary.

Still even if Ultra is in the 20's, that's for UHD. UHD BD is close to 3 times that.

Streaming has come a long way, but so has disc. Disc PQ always manages to keep a few steps ahead of streaming quality.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I, and many other collectors, donate duplicates to family, friends, libraries, or hospitals. We buy movies to enjoy them; they are not an investment.

But you disc lovers always tout the ability to re-sell discs as a huge advantage over digital

Originally Posted by vilya

informing us that everyone wants to pay a reasonable price for what they buy is another obvious fact that need not be stated. Collectors do not go "crazy" buying discs. They simply buy what they enjoy.

It would be very easy for me to say that digital customers go "crazy" buying something they do not ever actually possess. But that's not accurate, either. They are here, sniffing about for free codes, only buying them as a last resort.
There, i just painted all digital fans with the same broad brush that you paint disc fans. That statement is as wrong as the one you made implying that disc buyers are "crazy."

I have to side with him for once. He is right in a sense. I follow a tons of physical media only collectors on instagram and they literally buy just about every release every single Tuesday. Even the most widely known sh*tty movies and B movies and stuff most people would have no interest in owning. I'm not sure where some of them get so much disposable income. I often wonder if they are in crazy credit card debt just trying to show off on social media.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

But you disc lovers always tout the ability to re-sell discs as a huge advantage over digital


I have to side with him for once. He is right in a sense. I follow a tons of physical media only collectors on instagram and they literally buy just about every release every single Tuesday. Even the most widely known sh*tty movies and B movies and stuff most people would have no interest in owning. I'm not sure where some of them get so much disposable income. I often wonder if they are in crazy credit card debt just trying to show off on social media.

Showing off what? That they buy crap films?

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Showing off what? That they buy crap films?

I have no clue but there are not multiple things worth buying every week. (with the exception of May 2018)

They seem to blind buy a lot as well.

I personally just find it interesting.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

I have no clue but there are not multiple things worth buying every week. (with the exception of May 2018)

They seem to blind buy a lot as well.

I personally just find it interesting.

Quality over quantity every time.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by flyry

But you disc lovers always tout the ability to re-sell discs as a huge advantage over digital

So how does being able to sell your discs make it an investment? Sure there are a few purchase made here and there with the intent that the price will go up (which it very rarely does, so they have to guess), but those purchases are few and far between.

Call it disc lovers if you want, but it's really loving having a higher quality product with no strings attached.

I have to side with him for once. He is right in a sense. I follow a tons of physical media only collectors on instagram and they literally buy just about every release every single Tuesday. Even the most widely known sh*tty movies and B movies and stuff most people would have no interest in owning. I'm not sure where some of them get so much disposable income. I often wonder if they are in crazy credit card debt just trying to show off on social media.

It must be steelbooks because no collector would buy every new release if it was nothing collectible. Really, I don't think steelbook collectors are what are keeping disc afloat. Maybe like 2 percent of all revenue at most.

If they are just buying everything steelbook or not, then those people are really few and far between and not the typical collector at all.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by bruceames

So how does being able to sell your discs make it an investment? Sure there are a few purchase made here and there with the intent that the price will go up (which it very rarely does, so they have to guess), but those purchases are few and far between.

Call it disc lovers if you want, but it's really loving having a higher quality product with no strings attached.



It must be steelbooks because no collector would buy every new release if it was nothing collectible. Really, I don't think steelbook collectors are what are keeping disc afloat. Maybe like 2 percent of all revenue at most.

If they are just buying everything steelbook or not, then those people are really few and far between and not the typical collector at all.

I'm telling you there are tons of collectors on instagram who buy tons of crap movie regular releases. Not steelbooks. (though there are steel only collectors too).

I still support physical media. I'll be buying 3 discs in the next week + (would have been 4 if JP was releasing individually.

But something like Annihilation which I liked but did not love I will buy the UHD digital and save $10 over the disc. (I will actually get it even cheaper- for about $9.50 with a tmobile Tuesday vudu credit vs $24.99)

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

But you disc lovers always tout the ability to re-sell discs as a huge advantage over digital

I have to side with him for once. He is right in a sense. I follow a tons of physical media only collectors on instagram and they literally buy just about every release every single Tuesday. Even the most widely known sh*tty movies and B movies and stuff most people would have no interest in owning. I'm not sure where some of them get so much disposable income. I often wonder if they are in crazy credit card debt just trying to show off on social media.

This "disc lover" doesn't tout the resell value of discs simply because I don't resell them. I donate any duplicates as I have said before. I suspect some collectors sell the unwanted portion of a combo pack, be it the included DVD or the digital code, to bolster their movie spending budget.

I have no doubt that some people spend a lot on their hobbies. Our disposable incomes vary as widely as our tastes. I would not encourage anyone to indulge themselves with credit card spending (unless they have a rewards card and they pay off the balance in full each month)- high interest debt is a difficult trap to free oneself from once ensnared.

Many of those "B" and "sh*tty" movies can be a lot of fun. People don't want Shakespeare all the time. I have been tempted to buy Cannibal Women In The Avocado Jungle Of Death for sometime now. That title is even fun to read out loud. It stars Adrienne Barbeau.

Review here; there is an American release, too.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Canni...141054/#Review

[Show spoiler]