Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Geoff D]

Well, I do think that Sith edges out Jedi and it's got nothing to do with Ewoks. It's to do with wheeling out a Death Star again, the wifflebat lightsaber assault on the sail barge, the utterly disinterested performances of the leads (especially Ford and Fisher, she looks spaced out, moreso than usual) and so on.

To me the whole thing plays like everybody was sick of Star Wars at that point (the pushmepullyou aspect of the directing between Marquand and Lucas didn't help) and although there's still some great stuff in there it's never quite gelled for me. It also suffers from 'third film as third act' syndrome, i.e. it's designed to be a capper to the 'saga', being one big long action piece rather than being a film in its own right (which is also why I don't like Avengers all that much).

[Optimus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well, I do think that Sith edges out Jedi and it's got nothing to do with Ewoks. It's to do with wheeling out a Death Star again, the wifflebat lightsaber assault on the sail barge, the utterly disinterested performances of the leads (especially Ford and Fisher, she looks spaced out, moreso than usual) and so on.

To me the whole thing plays like everybody was sick of Star Wars at that point (the pushmepullyou aspect of the directing between Marquand and Lucas didn't help) and although there's still some great stuff in there it's never quite gelled for me. It also suffers from 'third film as third act' syndrome, i.e. it's designed to be a capper to the 'saga', being one big long action piece rather than being a film in its own right (which is also why I don't like Avengers all that much).

Wasn't she on coke at the time?

[Kryptonic]

Jedi
Menace
Empire
Sith
A New Hope
Clones

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by OptimusL

Wasn't she on coke at the time?

When was she not? But my point was more that she seems particularly zoned out in Jedi, all the life's gone from her eyes and it's like we're watching a different person than the spunky, smart-mouthed character from the first two SW films.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

When was she not? But my point was more that she seems particularly zoned out in Jedi, all the life's gone from her eyes and it's like we're watching a different person than the spunky, smart-mouthed character from the first two SW films.

But dat bikini...

[Geoff D]

Like I said, there's some great stuff in Jedi too...

[MCT]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well, I do think that Sith edges out Jedi and it's got nothing to do with Ewoks. It's to do with wheeling out a Death Star again, the wifflebat lightsaber assault on the sail barge, the utterly disinterested performances of the leads (especially Ford and Fisher, she looks spaced out, moreso than usual) and so on.

To me the whole thing plays like everybody was sick of Star Wars at that point (the pushmepullyou aspect of the directing between Marquand and Lucas didn't help) and although there's still some great stuff in there it's never quite gelled for me. It also suffers from 'third film as third act' syndrome, i.e. it's designed to be a capper to the 'saga', being one big long action piece rather than being a film in its own right (which is also why I don't like Avengers all that much).

I'll take Ewoks, "boredom" of actors (some shit you're just making up here), and another Death Star ALL DAY over a movie where Lucas completely ruined the Darth Vader character forever. Sith turned Vader from a villain worthy of fear into an emasculated moron incapable of rational thought.

Palps - "I can save Padme!'
Anakin -"OK, I just killed nondescript black Jedi with no memorable personality traits. Save my wife!"
Palps - "Actually, I dont know how, but kill all the Jedi and maybe one day we'll figure it out. Maybe."
Anakin - "Thanks, brah."

Palps -
*thinking to himself* "Goddamn moron."

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I never heard anyone complain about Ewoks in 1983.

My friends sure as hell did. So did a lot of the people who came into the bar I was working at.

[EvaDK]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Like I said, there's some great stuff in Jedi too...

Second half of Jedi is essentially one huge showdown lasting an hour.

Ewoks were meh, Harrison and Carrie weren't given much to work with in this one (compared to Mark Hamill who basically had all the interesting character scenes in the film) and the humor is too reliant on slapstick.

But it is still a vastly superior film to Sith, with the most lousy good guy turning evil scene I've probably seen in A-list movie making. And Padme dying because she 'lost the will to live' is about is retarded as the prequels ever got.

[MechaGodzilla]

I never had a problem with the Ewoks, I like them actually.

Also agree with the people that have said ROTJ is superior to ROTS. The former has its flaws, sure, but nothing as major, bordering on ruining the movie as the latter does.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I never heard anyone complain about Ewoks in 1983. It wasn't until ten years later and I was out of college that I heard a guy ***** his head off about Return of the Jedi, upset that Lucas made a family fantasy film instead of some sort of uber-serious violent death-fest. In 1983, the Ewoks were a huge surprise and they brought the house down...balancing the heart-in-your-throat drama on the Death Star with charm and comedy. They worked for me then and still do. Lucas' muddled plot, clunky pacing, and stilted dialog in Sith? Not so much.

That's because movie goers weren't whiney *****es wanting perfection till the mid 90s. haha

[Geoff D]

I love Anakin's turn. He's beset on all sides, with the Jedi asking him to spy on Palps, Palps asking him to spy on them and even Padme asking him to speak to the Chancellor. He's so confused he doesn't know which way is up, AND he's got the vision of Padme's death to deal with. Palps has already craftily laid the germ of her salvation in Anakin's mind with his opera speech about Plagueis' powers, so when it comes to the crunch Anakin chooses this path. Some might call it selfish, but he's spent the whole movie being leaned upon by everyone else which is why he does what he does for his own good and for the good of Padme.

Sith actually has a plot in and of itself, unlike Jedi which is simply one big third act, and even though the Padme broken heart thing is BEYOND daft, it doesn't derail the film for me. I could say the same thing about a bunch of teddy bears defeating an entire legion of the Emperor's best troops. If you're digging the film, you go with such silliness, if you don't, it becomes The Worst Thing Ever because that is the nature of things. There's no place for a middle ground, not when George Lucas' work is involved. Me, I like both films (crazy, I know) but Sith just wins out.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Some might call it selfish,...

Yeah, sadly that's just human nature. Slaughter a few younglings and the judgmental finger-pointers start crawling out of the woodwork.

Whattayagonnado.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

I never had a problem with the Ewoks, I like them actually.

Also agree with the people that have said ROTJ is superior to ROTS. The former has its flaws, sure, but nothing as major, bordering on ruining the movie as the latter does.

I dunno, it's pretty much a wash for me.

They both have tiresome stretches and potential deal-breakers that are all more or less redeemed by the Good Bits.

If I had to pick one I would probably give Sith the nod but it's pretty close.

[SymbioticFunction]

I like Sith a great deal but it clearly doesn't any moments that can match up to the emotional death of Yoda, the speeder bike chase or the big Luke and Emperor showdown. I also love the rancor fight and the Millenium Falcon's flight in and out of the Death Star. Some parts of Jedi are amazingly good. Sure ewoks kinda suck...but nevermind.

[Bruce Campbell]

I just opened my pantry and couldn't decide between Cookie Crisp or Fruit Loops. It was more of a struggle and I put more into it than what it took for Anakin to turn to the darkside In Sith.

[Megalith]

How the hell can anyone think ROTS is better than ROTJ when the Sail Barge scene alone is better than the entire ****ing PT.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by Megalith

How the hell can anyone think ROTS is better than ROTJ when the Sail Barge scene alone is better than the entire ****ing PT.

Cause it's not.

[CHEЯNOБLY!]

[TNT]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I never heard anyone complain about Ewoks in 1983. It wasn't until ten years later and I was out of college that I heard a guy ***** his head off about Return of the Jedi, upset that Lucas made a family fantasy film instead of some sort of uber-serious violent death-fest.

Wasn't this more of the direction Kurtz wanted to see ROTJ go?