Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

None of my purchased content on DVD-/+ R media has failed, so I am just not very worried about it "disappearing." Ironically, I can't say the same for my pressed discs; some of them have failed, although very, very few of them.

I've found if the disc is from a top manufacturer, DVD-/+R discs will last for years. I bought my first DVD recorder back in 2004, and have discs going back that far which still play perfectly to this day and never had any playback issues. I've normally used Taiyo Yuden and occasionally Verbatim discs.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by CV19

I've found if the disc is from a top manufacturer, DVD-/+R discs will last for years. I bought my first DVD recorder back in 2004, and have discs going back that far which still play perfectly to this day and never had any playback issues. I've normally used Taiyo Yuden and occasionally Verbatim discs.

I started burning my own DVDs in 2005, and except for those made with Philips media, they all still work perfectly. I primarily use Verbatim media now; my software engineer friend highly recommends them.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

None of them have been around for more than the "few decades" I previously mentioned. Ideally I want physical media to outlast copyright (currently up to 120 years) and I think that pressed discs have a good chance of doing that, but burned discs don't.

To be fair, DVDs only date back 21 years. My oldest homemade burned discs are now 14 years-old. The longevity of both pressed and burned discs are unknown despite the projections made for both.

Some project that a burned disc will last anywhere from 20-200 years. A pressed disc is expected to last a minimum of 50 years. Will they really? I likely will not live long enough to find out; maybe you will?

http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/opticalmedialongevity.html

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...shouldadvdlast

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

To be fair, DVDs only date back 21 years. My oldest homemade burned discs are now 14 years-old. The longevity of both pressed and burned discs are unknown despite the projections made for both.

Some project that a burned disc will last anywhere from 20-200 years. A pressed disc is expected to last a minimum of 50 years. Will they really? I likely will not live long enough to find out; maybe you will?

Remember when CD's were launched in 1983, and they were claiming "perfect sound forever"? Well as far as pressed discs are concerned, I do have CD's going back to 1983/4 (in fact I have a huge 80's collection), and they are all in perfect condition even though some are now over 30 years old.

However I have had CD's I bought in the early 90's which "rotted" after just a few years, and they were from the same record label, which to me would indicate a manufacturing problem. Happily, only a handful were affected out of several hundred CD's I have altogether.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

My understanding of both technologies definitely make me think that pressed discs will last much longer.

They very well may, but it will likely be academic.

A burned disc has been projected to last from 20-200 years. Even if they only last to half of that range maximum, 100 years, isn't that plenty? Will it matter if a pressed disc lasts longer? I try to be an optimist, but I don't see myself living another century.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by CV19

Remember when CD's were launched in 1983, and they were claiming "perfect sound forever"? Well as far as pressed discs are concerned, I do have CD's going back to 1983/4 (in fact I have a huge 80's collection), and they are all in perfect condition even though some are now over 30 years old.

However I have had CD's I bought in the early 90's which "rotted" after just a few years, and they were from the same record label, which to me would indicate a manufacturing problem. Happily, only a handful were affected out of several hundred CD's I have altogether.

All of my cds from 1983 still play, too, last I checked them anyways.

I have great confidence in optical media as evidenced by my mid sized collection.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

All of my concerns are focused on certain titles becoming unavailable to everyone. They aren't about me losing my personal collection.

The more of us that collect movies and TV shows on physical media, the greater the odds that at least that much content will be preserved for posterity. I want content to be restored, preserved, and made available for all of the generations yet to come.

The more we buy, the more they will likely release. The more we have, the more there will be available on the used market should the content owners stop releasing a given title.

We both have a new title that we can bestow upon ourselves, that of curator. My collection preserves some of that content and so does yours.

Which one of us will be the first to preserve this release:



Every time I see a release like this, my hope is renewed for still more lesser known titles to come to disc.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I plan to take my preservation duties even further. Before I die all of my collection will be donated to libraries for others to enjoy.

I have similar instructions in place, but not UNTIL I die. I plan to enjoy my library to the final moment if at all possible.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Which one of us will be the first to preserve this release:



Every time I see a release like this, my hope is renewed for still more lesser known titles to come to disc.

If this title is region-free, then I'll help preserve it by adding it to my collection.
I'm sure there are many films of this type still waiting for a Blu-ray release.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I agree with everything you just said. The first sentence is especially important. That's why it's so infuriating when people question why us physical supporters are bothered by other people streaming.

I plan to take my preservation duties even further. Before I die all of my collection will be donated to libraries for others to enjoy.



That'll have to be all you, it's not my type of movie. But I'm very glad it's available to all the people who enjoy it.

You’re actually bothered by people streaming?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by CV19

If this title is region-free, then I'll help preserve it by adding it to my collection.
I'm sure there are many films of this type still waiting for a Blu-ray release.

It's a Vinegar Syndrome release; I think they are region locked "A." This label releases a LOT of curious films of this type. There is a thread for them, too:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...04974&page=528

And a review for that specific movie:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Blood...133467/#Review

[Vilya]

I am not bothered by other people streaming; I do it myself occasionally, primarily to see if I want to buy something I am unsure about.

I can still enjoy my movie and TV show hobby in the manner that I prefer and while that remains true, I am not worried about how other people do so.

Should that change, though, I will likely become agitated.

Not everyone wants to own content. I am no more annoyed by those who stream than I am by those who see a movie once at the theater and are "one and done" with it. Many people are content with a single viewing, be it via their Netflix app, cable TV, or their local multiplex theater.

I do maintain that the only true way to own content is with physical media. I have already said why that it is and rather often. I will spare you all the rerun here.

If owning such content on disc helps to preserve it, then that is a real sweet icing on the cake. Even among collectors, though, I can't expect that they would all see it that way. I do think that collectors help to preserve content whether or not that is their intention. The more copies that are out there, the less likely that something will be lost.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It's a Vinegar Syndrome release; I think they are region locked "A." This label releases a LOT of curious films of this type. There is a thread for them, too:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...04974&page=528

And a review for that specific movie:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Blood...133467/#Review

That's a shame as unfortunately at the moment I don't have a multi-region player. But thanks anyway for letting me know.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

It means they aren't helping preserve any of the movies or TV shows they are streaming. I thought that was made clear by Vilya's statement:



It's not something that causes me stress or anxiety, I'm a very happy person and I love my life. But I do try to convince as many people as possible to exclusively support physical media. I've actually been successful with a few people in my personal life.

But why should someone need to help preserve it? For most non-collectors it’s a form of entertainment only, not a hobby.

Up until the last few decades film ownership was not even possible and people treated them just like how they do with streaming now. They ingest the content and move on in most situations.

And when does preserving film become a problem for the collector? Many people cannot store thousands of discs and given the vast amount of available disc media eventually people are going to have to cut back.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Groot

...eventually people are going to have to cut back.

Not this people; I'll get a bigger place first!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I think the ownership option should always be available with everything.

That has obviously happened with a few titles I've mentioned. Grace and Frankie, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, and Casual remained popular enough with streaming for Netflix and Hulu to continue spending millions of dollars on making new seasons. But very few people were buying or renting the discs so they stopped releasing the new seasons on discs.

When ownership means on physical media, I agree.

As I said previously, some of those shows may yet be licensed out to someone like Shout Factory! to release on disc instead of the content owner doing so. This happens frequently with TV shows, if not frequently enough to suit those of us with more voracious appetites.

Owning episodic TV is lot different than owning a movie, though. It can be more expensive to collect a TV series and there is a much greater time commitment to watch, yet alone rewatch, a TV series than with a movie. How much of and how often can a person watch a 20 season show like Gunsmoke? I own 1,042 seasons of TV on disc now; I will be lucky to view it all even once- and there's still more that I want.

Time for an anecdote! That guaranteed and undisputed barometer of extrapolated truth beloved by all!

I know many people that buy movies on disc, but very few of them buy TV shows. They don't have the desire to own a TV series the way they do with a movie. They often tell me that they watch the shows they like on cable TV, or Netflix, and a single viewing is all they want. Reruns are usually on somewhere if they do want to see it again, so they see no need to buy TV shows.

I don't subscribe to cable TV and I rarely stream anything. I buy the shows I want, which is actually cheaper than having cable TV service, and then I binge watch them with no commercial interruptions or any dependence on my flighty ISP.

But like my anecdote above, my behavior is not likely to be representative of everyone. I am an odd duck; hear me quack!

Aack! An electrical storm is upon me! I must log off now.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by SethRex

This leads to many shows stopping physical releases before completing the series and many short-lived series not getting physical releases at all. Sometimes even popular shows don't get physical releases because studios think there is more money in making them exclusive to specific streaming providers.

Okay, that's a fair point. The picture isn't as bright when it comes to physical releases of TV series. I don't think it's all that bleak but yeah, whistling 'Everything is Awesome' isn't warranted either.

Originally Posted by SethRex

I fear this will cause many of these shows to be completely unavailable in the future as they lose popularity. Digital providers have already dropped many shows from their marketplaces; no one is able to buy those shows anymore. As the total amount of content increases the number of titles being de-listed will increase as well.

Completely unavailable in the future? That seems way too pessimistic.

Looking at this from the property owner's side I envision a future where it gets easier and easier to monetize even the most marginal properties.

Storing properties will get cheaper and cheaper and delivering them will get cheaper and cheaper. And as costs get lower and lower and lower that means an specific show wouldn't have to generate as much revenue to profitable.

And from the consumer side, the only way they monetize their properties is by making them available to us at a price we're willing and able to pay.

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Ideally I want physical media to outlast copyright (currently up to 120 years) and I think that pressed discs have a good chance of doing that, but burned discs don't.

Well, I have absolutely zero chance of outlasting copyright so wtf do I care.

And lest anyone wonder whether I'm concerned about future generations being able to watch Dark Shadows: I am not.

I believer rights holders have an obligation to be responsible stewards of the properties they control. As far as whether they make those properties available to the public, I will leave to that to future marketplaces.

A) I actually have a great deal of faith in the motivational power of self-interest and in the power of marketplaces to direct that power.

B) I'll be dead. If I'm wrong, well, shit happens and I'm dead anyway.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by CV19

I've found if the disc is from a top manufacturer, DVD-/+R discs will last for years. I bought my first DVD recorder back in 2004, and have discs going back that far which still play perfectly to this day and never had any playback issues. I've normally used Taiyo Yuden and occasionally Verbatim discs.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I started burning my own DVDs in 2005, and except for those made with Philips media, they all still work perfectly. I primarily use Verbatim media now; my software engineer friend highly recommends them.

I also started doing Back-up DVD's around 2004, and I don't know what DVD+R I started to use but when they failed I did some research. I found out that Verbatim were highly recommended, and started to use them with no failures since. Even my Back-up BD were on Verbatim. Then when I went Digital HD I stopped doing Back-ups. That's another reason I like Digital, I used DVD/BD Software to take all that Junk off the Discs and just watch the Movie right away. So I preferred watching my Back-ups more than the Commercial Disc.

[Vilya]

I have used similar software that allows me to remove unwanted items as well as some that made 1:1 replicas, but I will not mention software names as this site frowns on this subject.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

It means they aren't helping preserve any of the movies or TV shows they are streaming. I thought that was made clear by Vilya's statement:

It's not something that causes me stress or anxiety, I'm a very happy person and I love my life. But I do try to convince as many people as possible to exclusively support physical media. I've actually been successful with a few people in my personal life.

Originally Posted by Groot

But why should someone need to help preserve it? For most non-collectors it’s a form of entertainment only, not a hobby.

Up until the last few decades film ownership was not even possible and people treated them just like how they do with streaming now. They ingest the content and move on in most situations.

And when does preserving film become a problem for the collector? Many people cannot store thousands of discs and given the vast amount of available disc media eventually people are going to have to cut back.

It's all about Supply and Demand, if there is no Demand the Supplies start to go down. You guys know about Best Buy and Target, they are cutting back on their Discs. No CD's, and they are changing their Inventories on DVD's and BD to only pay the Distributor for the Discs that sell. Like Groot said, people don't really think about preserving. They watch Movies and TV Shows to be entertained, and if they like it enough they might buy it. The Movie Format moves on, DVD, BD, and now Digital HD. The best we can hope for is that Physical and Digital can coexits, but you have to wonder what comes after UHD Disc.....I say Mass Storage Device or on a Server!