Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by flyry

This is a silly argument. Who was really streaming in the dial-up days when it took 30 minutes to download a jpeg?

We were early adopters of broadband and that was in 1999 iirc.

We were streaming (live and recorded a/v) in the 90's via T3 lines between different facilities. The point was streaming a/v over data lines has been around a long time. We started streaming our main program channel to the internet in the late 90's.

Started surfing the WEB in about 1993 using Mosaic V1.0

[brap hawg]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Even DRM-free downloads are much worse than physical media because there is no used market. After a digital title is no longer officially offered no one can buy it.

Those are not DRM free.
Old PC games that have one DRM in the form of an offline code that doesn't connect to any server and never has to be used after the initial installation is rightfully considered DRM.
Your "DRM free" downloads require an online account and the platform's servers have to authorize your account to access whatever content you are trying to download. 2 forms of DRM that are worse than first example and yet it is somehow DRM free.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Sure, one can fairly safely assume that people who paint their faces in team colors and shave team logos into their hair are passionate fans of that team.

It's far riskier to assume that people who don't paint their faces or shave team logos into their hair are not passionate fans of that team. Or even that they're not as passionate as the face painters.

Really? I think it’s quite a obvious indicator of one’s love for film. Watching a crisp, detail packed copy of The Revenant is not the same experience as watching it on DVD or a crappy stream. The detail enhances the film and enriches the image. Not to mention the immersive surround sound.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

If you really think UHD streaming is where blu-ray was a decade ago I don't know what to tell you.

I did not say a 4K stream looked worse than a blu-ray. My point is that 4K streaming has a bitrate average now that a blu-ray disc had a decade ago.

4K streams average a mere 25 Mbps today. 4K streams are heavily compressed. Blu-ray bitrates averaged that even a decade ago. Blu-rays often have lossless audio now and 4K streams still do not. A 4k disc enjoys a bitrate average of more than three times that of a 4K stream.

We have gigabit internet speeds in many markets now, yet the most streaming content providers use is that paltry 25 Mbps. Even in my tiny little hamlet, I get 80 Mbps download, when my ISP actually works, and I am subscribing to their lowest tier of service.

The subject was about streaming content providers using so much compression and having such low bitrates when many ISPs offer way more than enough bandwidth, and that bandwidth has been available for years. Streaming content providers have not utilized the bandwidth available to them. Instead, they continue to offer very compressed video and lossy audio, presumably because they know that their customers are satisfied with this lower quality. They likely do not want to pay to use more bandwidth; a cost they would have to pass on to the consumer. ISPs would also charge their customers more for using ever more data. The consumer would get it from two sides. ISPs would make out like bandits by charging both the streaming content provider and the customer for using more data.

Streaming has always been behind physical media. Disc leads and streaming lags behind.

[flyry]

Older posters be like "I was streaming in my tent during the gulf war in the early 90s "

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

Older posters be like "I was streaming in my tent during the gulf war in the early 90s "

Are you now making fun of both older people AND veterans?

I don't really think you are doing that, but it kind of sounds like maybe you are.

Go ahead and poke fun at older people if it makes you chuckle- if you're fortunate you will become one yourself someday.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by brap hawg

Those are not DRM free.
Old PC games that have one DRM in the form of an offline code that doesn't connect to any server and never has to be used after the initial installation is rightfully considered DRM.
Your "DRM free" downloads require an online account and the platform's servers have to authorize your account to access whatever content you are trying to download. 2 forms of DRM that are worse than first example and yet it is somehow DRM free.

Have you not heard of gog.com?

"A selection of great DRM-free games, from modern hits to all-time classics, that you really shouldn't miss."

https://www.gog.com/about_gog

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

But you have to buy and download them directly from GOG. No one can buy games from GOG and then sell them elsewhere like they could with a physical copy. Only being able to buy and download from official sources (like GOG) is absolutely "digital rights management". How else would you describe it?

http://gogwiki.com/wiki/List_of_games_removed_from_GOG

Many of those games never got physical releases and are now unavailable from all digital sources. There is absolutely no legal way to access them if you don't already own them. With a physical release you could easily buy a used copy from an unofficial source.

I see what you are saying and you are right. It is a website that one of my gaming friends loves and he has recommended it to me many times. I have bought a couple of really old games from them. Most of my gog games were gifts, just like with my Steam games.

My friends want me to play with them or they at least want me to play what they are playing, so they wind up buying the game for me. I tell them that my discretionary spending is largely earmarked for my movies/disc hobby.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Are you now making fun of both older people AND veterans?

Nothing more than the posters true colors showing up . And to think I gave up 2 years of my life to defend my fellow Americans. If there was a way to take it back I would, at least I take advantage of my VA benefits.

OTOH, many people have thanked me for my service and I believe most sincerely meant what they said. One was the late Kosty, a member here that used to post all that sales data.

SP5 Wendell R Breland
US Army 1966 to 1968

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Nothing more than the posters true colors showing up . And to think I gave up 2 years of my life to defend my fellow Americans. If there was a way to take it back I would, at least I take advantage of my VA benefits.

OTOH, many people have thanked me for my service and I believe most sincerely meant what they said. One was the late Kosty, a member here that used to post all that sales data.

SP5 Wendell R Breland
US Army 1966 to 1968

He is so fondly spoke of on this forum, according to everyone he was a total gent.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Nothing more than the posters true colors showing up . And to think I gave up 2 years of my life to defend my fellow Americans. If there was a way to take it back I would, at least I take advantage of my VA benefits.

OTOH, many people have thanked me for my service and I believe most sincerely meant what they said. One was the late Kosty, a member here that used to post all that sales data.

SP5 Wendell R Breland
US Army 1966 to 1968

Thank you for your Service Wendell, I too served in the Army and went to Vietnam '69-'70. Best years of my life, and very Proud to Serve. I also used the GI Bill to finish my College Education, San Jose State 1975.

CW2 A.L. Chavarin
US Army 1968 to 1971

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I did not say a 4K stream looked worse than a blu-ray. My point is that 4K streaming has a bitrate average now that a blu-ray disc had a decade ago.

4K streams average a mere 25 Mbps today. 4K streams are heavily compressed. Blu-ray bitrates averaged that even a decade ago. Blu-rays often have lossless audio now and 4K streams still do not. A 4k disc enjoys a bitrate average of more than three times that of a 4K stream.

We have gigabit internet speeds in many markets now, yet the most streaming content providers use is that paltry 25 Mbps. Even in my tiny little hamlet, I get 80 Mbps download, when my ISP actually works, and I am subscribing to their lowest tier of service.

The subject was about streaming content providers using so much compression and having such low bitrates when many ISPs offer way more than enough bandwidth, and that bandwidth has been available for years. Streaming content providers have not utilized the bandwidth available to them. Instead, they continue to offer very compressed video and lossy audio, presumably because they know that their customers are satisfied with this lower quality. They likely do not want to pay to use more bandwidth; a cost they would have to pass on to the consumer. ISPs would also charge their customers more for using ever more data. The consumer would get it from two sides. ISPs would make out like bandits by charging both the streaming content provider and the customer for using more data.

Streaming has always been behind physical media. Disc leads and streaming lags behind.

I get what you're saying but there's more to it than that and the use of different codecs.

All I need it my own eyes to tell me that my UHD streaming of shows and movies is superior to my blu-rays.

UHD discs are another story, but since i literally only have room for 2 or 3 more movies if it's not getting a UHD release i'll most likely just buy the streaming version(unless it's a criterion)

Originally Posted by Vilya

Are you now making fun of both older people AND veterans?

I really hope you can't be that dense.

I was being facetious talking about the absurdity of comparing streaming at facilities back in the pre-dvd days to the current streaming era.

I had no clue he even served. It was a joke that had nothing to do with veterans.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

I get what you're saying but there's more to it than that and the use of different codecs.

All I need it my own eyes to tell me that my UHD streaming of shows and movies is superior to my blu-rays.

UHD discs are another story, but since i literally only have room for 2 or 3 more movies if it's not getting a UHD release i'll most likely just buy the streaming version(unless it's a criterion)



I really hope you can't be that dense.

I was being facetious talking about the absurdity of comparing streaming at faciliies back in the pre-dvd days to the current streaming era.

I had no clue he even served. It was a joke that had nothing to do with veterans.

I think you need to work on your humour.

[stonesfan129]

What do you guys recommend for replacement Blu-ray cases? I have a bunch of discs where I must have gotten rid of the cases and now I just keep them in a big binder.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

I really hope you can't be that dense.

I have my moments.

I was in the Army myself, but I served during peacetime. I can't hold a candle to those who served in combat.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I was in the Army myself, but I served during peacetime. I can't hold a candle to those who served in combat.

AFAIK all military personnel are expendable items in wartime or peacetime. I have told people many times artillery shells, bombs, grenades, bullets, rockets, mustard gas, sarin, etc. makes no distinction on rank or MOS in regards to who it kills. So thanks for giving up part of your life in defense of the US.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

What do you guys recommend for replacement Blu-ray cases? I have a bunch of discs where I must have gotten rid of the cases and now I just keep them in a big binder.

Do a Google search for Viva Blu-ray Cases and several vendors should be listed. There is a thread about cases here but I can not remember the forum.

[dublinbluray108]

I just want to give you an update over my problem with the digital code of The Greatest Showman giving me the BSOD on Microsoft.

This problem still has not been solved yet. This problem seems to stem from installing The Fall Creators Update on Windows 10 on my own laptop. I have noticed more issues arising with this problem more recently when I tried to watch HD videos on Youtube & through online catch up TV services. When I watch videos on YT; I can't get them to play 1080p properly. Frequent buffering happens on this service quite regularly when in HD. Lower quality videos below 720p would play fine with no issues. I also tried to watch some F1 highlights from All4.com in the UK last night. The BSOD came up twice when I tried to play it through the website or through it's Windows app.

What I am doing to solve the issue now is that I'm chatting with a live agent on Microsoft to try & find out more information on the fault.

The stopcode that I'm receiving from the BSOD is a "PAGE FAULT IN A NON PAGED AREA". I don't know how to solve that.

Do I need more help from the Microsoft live agent to solve this or should I able to do this myself?

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

I just want to give you an update over my problem with the digital code of The Greatest Showman giving me the BSOD on Microsoft.

This problem still has not been solved yet. This problem seems to stem from installing The Fall Creators Update on Windows 10 on my own laptop. I have noticed more issues arising with this problem more recently when I tried to watch HD videos on Youtube & through online catch up TV services. When I watch videos on YT; I can't get them to play 1080p properly. Frequent buffering happens on this service quite regularly when in HD. Lower quality videos below 720p would play fine with no issues. I also tried to watch some F1 highlights from All4.com in the UK last night. The BSOD came up twice when I tried to play it through the website or through it's Windows app.

What I am doing to solve the issue now is that I'm chatting with a live agent on Microsoft to try & find out more information on the fault.

The stopcode that I'm receiving from the BSOD is a "PAGE FAULT IN A NON PAGED AREA". I don't know how to solve that.

Do I need more help from the Microsoft live agent to solve this or should I able to do this myself?

Does it happen if you reinstall your video driver? What happens if you roll back the driver to an earlier version? Does it still crash?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

Do I need more help from the Microsoft live agent to solve this or should I able to do this myself?

You may want to check in with the folks in the HTPC section on AVS forums.

I tried this

1080p video

and it played without issues on a Windows 10 Pro, Ver. 1803 PC. I did see video artifacts but that could simply be the encoding.