Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Redbox is not selling Codes

Dude, because you served I will try to cut you a little slack but:



from the Redbox site.

Confucius says: For it is better to let people think tho a fool than to open tho mouth and remove all doubt.

You really need to think about your post and the way people respond to you. Smart people pay no attention to anecdotal evidence and offering such makes you look uninformed.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Dude, because you served I will try to cut you a little slack but:

from the Redbox site.

Confucius says: For it is better to let people think tho a fool than to open tho mouth and remove all doubt.

You really need to think about your post and the way people respond to you.

Okay I stand corrected, no need to get all excited. I did look at their Site and didn't see where they were still selling Codes. I use to Rent from Redbox all the time, and I knew they were selling Codes. I thought with their On Demand they would stop selling Codes....I was wrong.

[Dustin44]

Yeah, Redbox still sells Disney digital codes.

Disney was trying to stop them, this was the last I heard of the case:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/21/1...ital-downloads

I believe Disney was still trying to fight Redbox though.

(and I always wondered why Redbox only sold Disney Digital codes? You think they would have tried to sell codes from other studios too)

[Dustin44]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Digital HD has no future. Even the industry has stopped pushing them like they were. Digital HD is the unloved child of this generation. The masses want cheap buffets, the hardcore want the best quality, Digital HD want, emmmmm, uhhhhhhh, ehhhhhhh, nope, it’s not coming to me.

They are pushing "Movies Anywhere" now:

https://www.mediaplaynews.com/bettin...vies-anywhere/


Michael Bonner, EVP of digital distribution for Universal Pictures Home Entertainment, notes that “digital sellthrough has been growing year over year, and we continue to see increased consumer engagement in the category. Movies Anywhere is just the latest example of studios and distributors working together to provide more value to the consumer and setting a new bar for digital movie ownership.”

Building a digital movie sales business hasn’t been easy, as any studio executive will candidly concede. When you’re going up against Netflix, with its enticing all-you-can-watch menu for just 10 bucks a month, it’s hard to get people to pony up even more than that for a single movie.

But selling movies and other filmed content to consumers has always been Hollywood’s holy grail, dating back 40 years to the birth of home video. Studios initially intended only to sell movies on videocassette to the public. But they were undercut by a veritable army of “rentailers” who sprang up seemingly overnight and, under the protection of the First Sale Doctrine to federal copyright law, began renting movies to consumers for as little as a buck a night. The sales business didn’t stand a chance.

It took the studios more than 20 years to finally get a viable sales model in place — the DVD, which was launched in 1997 and within a few years became the most successful consumer electronics product launch in history.

But then came Netflix, and the sales model once again took a hit — particularly after Netflix in 2007 introduced subscription streaming. Year after year, disc sales plummeted as consumers planted themselves on their sofas for a nightly steam of at first ‘B’ movies and then an increasingly compelling menu of original programming.

By 2017, according to DEG: The Digital Entertainment Group, annual consumer spending on discs had fallen to $4.7 billion, down from $8.5 billion just five years earlier. Consumer spending on streaming, meanwhile, had mushroomed to $9.5 billion, up from $2.3 billion in 2012.


(My issue with Movies Anywhere is that they still don't have Paramount and Lionsgate on board yet.)

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Okay I stand corrected, no need to get all excited. I did look at their Site and didn't see where they were still selling Codes. I use to Rent from Redbox all the time, and I knew they were selling Codes. I thought with their On Demand they would stop selling Codes....I was wrong.

You have been cut more slack than any human deserves. Anyone familiar with your post history knows this already. Your posts should be prefaced with "I am wrong".

You, the self anointed streaming expert, who knew next to nothing about how Netflix works, now poses as the digital code/ Redbox expert who had no idea that Redbox sells codes. Your being proven so colossally wrong, AGAIN, may be the best laugh I have all day.

I wish I had a dollar for every time you have been shown to be incorrect. I'd have a growing fortune as you have NEVER learned from a single one of your innumerable mistakes.

You admit being wrong today, but in a month, or sooner, you will have forgotten the correction and you will be right back at repeating your misinformation.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You have been cut more slack than any human deserves. Anyone familiar with your post history knows this already. Your posts should be prefaced with "I am wrong".

You, the self anointed streaming expert, who knew next to nothing about how Netflix works, now poses as the digital code/ Redbox expert who had no idea that Redbox sells codes. Your being proven so colossally wrong, AGAIN, may be the best laugh I have all day.

I wish I had a dollar for every time you have been shown to be incorrect. I'd have a growing fortune as you have NEVER learned from a single one of your innumerable mistakes.

You admit being wrong today, but in a month, or sooner, you will have forgotten the correction and you will be right back at repeating your misinformation.

You guys have never been wrong, but are quick to jump on someone. Like I said, you can skew Data anyway you want. Have you seen the latest information on Disc Sales, down another almost 30%. That's one of the main reasons Oppo got out of the Disc Player Market:

"One of the most respected names in video disc player sales is calling it quits. The decision confirms what everyone in the movie industry hoped was not true: 4K Blu-ray will not rescue the dying disc business."
http://www.nscreenmedia.com/oppo-dis...er-sales-quit/

I know you guys love your Discs, but you should see the writing on the wall. So don't kill the messenger, we should all be respectful to one another. I guess you guys see a dying cause, and throwing stones is your only solution. The truth is that Box Office and Disc Sales have been on the decline for years now. The Studios see it, and my observations show it.

"U.S. physical disc sales and rentals plummeted in 2017, proving once again that streaming is king, according to preliminary figures released Tuesday."
https://variety.com/2018/digital/new...17-1202658638/

I'm sure you guys will come back, and try to prove me wrong but Discs had their run and even I enjoyed them at one time. When I said Disc Quality could be achieved with enough Bandwidth, most of you guys thought that was a ridiculous idea. I had to find information where Disc Players used Bandwidth too. So let's see what happens now!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys have never been wrong, but are quick to jump on someone. Like I said, you can skew Data anyway you want. Have you seen the latest information on Disc Sales, down another almost 30%. That's one of the main reasons Oppo got out of the Disc Player Market:

"One of the most respected names in video disc player sales is calling it quits. The decision confirms what everyone in the movie industry hoped was not true: 4K Blu-ray will not rescue the dying disc business."
http://www.nscreenmedia.com/oppo-dis...er-sales-quit/

I know you guys love your Discs, but you should see the writing on the wall. So don't kill the messenger, we should all be respectful to one another. I guess you guys see a dying cause, and throwing stones is your only solution. The true is that Box Office and Disc Sales have been on the decline for years now. The Studios see it, and my observations show it.

"U.S. physical disc sales and rentals plummeted in 2017, proving once again that streaming is king, according to preliminary figures released Tuesday."
https://variety.com/2018/digital/new...17-1202658638/

I'm sure you guys will come back, and try to prove me wrong but Discs had their run and even I enjoyed them at one time. When I said Disc Quality could be achieved with enough Bandwidth, most of you guys thought that was a ridiculous idea. I had to find information where Disc Players used Bandwidth too. So let's see what happens now!

Being wrong is one thing, being wrong repeatedly is another matter altogether. Most people learn from their mistakes; you, however, just repeat them. Presenting yourself as knowledgeable on a subject when you clearly are not might be excusable the first time, but this ain't your first time by a longshot. You are a repeat offender repeating misinformation regularly. You are no innocent victim here. You get the flak you have drawn.

You can not "skew the data any way you want." The data shows precisely what, and how much, is being purchased, period. This year's data will be compared to last year's data and the rates of change will be accurately determined. There is nothing grey or mysterious about it- except maybe to you when you dislike what it shows.

Oppo's decision to leave the 4K disc player market was not due to 4K disc players selling poorly. In fact, such player sales, overall, saw a surge in sales of 133%. Citations for this fact have been posted repeatedly. Oppo made premuim players that cost $549 for the 203 model and $1,299 for the 205 model. These price points made their players beyond what the typical consumer was willing to pay. These prices were above what many film enthusiasts were willing to pay. Oppo stated that it will instead focus on its cell phone business.

Disc sales were down 28.31% the week ending June 16th as compared to the same week in 2017; that does not mean that disc sales overall fell that much. It is a weekly snapshot only. Some weeks perform better than others. You really have the poorest reading comprehension I have encountered in a great while.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=930

I can find weekly snapshots where disc did pretty good compared to the same week in the previous year. Such as this one where disc sales were up a meteoric 36.43%:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=914

This is why reading comprehension matters. It is a crying shame that you lack it. The above weekly snapshot no more shows a revival in disc sales than your selected weekly snapshot showed a death spiral. It is the quarterly and end of year data that really tells us what is happening in the home video sales department.

For the year 2017, disc sales were down 14.1% compared to 2016. This has been cited numerous times, also. Even with that decline, disc out sold electronic sell thru by more than 2 to 1. These are all facts and they are not skewed.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=741

No one, not a single person, has denied that disc sales were declining. I have said it and I have cited sources multiple times. One of the many things you fail to grasp is that a decline does not automatically mean something is dying. With you, it is always one extreme or the other. The market for discs will remain just as your obtuseness will remain.

Anyone who observes the 50+ weekly title releases on just blu-ray and 4K disc alone knows that disc releases continue unabated. This very website reports these releases every single week. 4K discs are projected to see an eight fold increase in sales this year. Discs are not done nor are they dying. New titles on disc keep coming and they enjoy a healthy and lively fan base. Stop confusing what you want with how it actually stands.

It takes almost no effort to prove you are wrong. Everyone realizes that ISPs provide enough bandwidth for streaming content providers to increase their anemic bitrates to those of a comparable disc, but what you consistently fail to realize is that none of those same streaming content providers are making any moves toward doing so. We only have your hearsay to the contrary and hearsay, like in court, is inadmissible. Higher streaming bitrates mean more data, more data means more money: money that someone will have to pony up and pay. Again, you'd think a career telecom employee would not require an explanation here.

With streaming, the growth is with bargain priced subscription streaming services with their tiny recurring fees for a smorgasbord of content. Regarding actual purchases, 2 to 1 of these are disc, not digital codes.

You're no messenger because your "message" is almost always wrong and, relax, no one wants to kill you. Stop placing the temptation before us, however.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Dustin44

They are pushing "Movies Anywhere" now:

https://www.mediaplaynews.com/bettin...vies-anywhere/


Michael Bonner, EVP of digital distribution for Universal Pictures Home Entertainment, notes that “digital sellthrough has been growing year over year, and we continue to see increased consumer engagement in the category. Movies Anywhere is just the latest example of studios and distributors working together to provide more value to the consumer and setting a new bar for digital movie ownership.”

Building a digital movie sales business hasn’t been easy, as any studio executive will candidly concede. When you’re going up against Netflix, with its enticing all-you-can-watch menu for just 10 bucks a month, it’s hard to get people to pony up even more than that for a single movie.

But selling movies and other filmed content to consumers has always been Hollywood’s holy grail, dating back 40 years to the birth of home video. Studios initially intended only to sell movies on videocassette to the public. But they were undercut by a veritable army of “rentailers” who sprang up seemingly overnight and, under the protection of the First Sale Doctrine to federal copyright law, began renting movies to consumers for as little as a buck a night. The sales business didn’t stand a chance.

It took the studios more than 20 years to finally get a viable sales model in place — the DVD, which was launched in 1997 and within a few years became the most successful consumer electronics product launch in history.

But then came Netflix, and the sales model once again took a hit — particularly after Netflix in 2007 introduced subscription streaming. Year after year, disc sales plummeted as consumers planted themselves on their sofas for a nightly steam of at first ‘B’ movies and then an increasingly compelling menu of original programming.

By 2017, according to DEG: The Digital Entertainment Group, annual consumer spending on discs had fallen to $4.7 billion, down from $8.5 billion just five years earlier. Consumer spending on streaming, meanwhile, had mushroomed to $9.5 billion, up from $2.3 billion in 2012.


(My issue with Movies Anywhere is that they still don't have Paramount and Lionsgate on board yet.)

All you have shown me there is very carefully chosen words and confirmation of what I said earlier. It’s spin imo. Not sure why you linked that but it could firms that the studios know streaming is king. I have never disputed that. However, discs are fine also. It doesn’t matter what the industry wants, I’m sure they would still like to sell albums in the music industry but that doesn’t happen either.

Is there growth there? Yes. Is it significant growth? Nope, not in my opinion. Single digit growth is not the future of collecting, collecting dies with disc, as I have said dozens of times before, you can take that to the bank.

[Dustin44]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

All you have shown me there is very carefully chosen words and confirmation of what I said earlier. It’s spin imo. Not sure why you linked that but it could firms that the studios know streaming is king. I have never disputed that. However, discs are fine also. It doesn’t matter what the industry wants, I’m sure they would still like to sell albums in the music industry but that doesn’t happen either.

Is there growth there? Yes. Is it significant growth? Nope, not in my opinion. Single digit growth is not the future of collecting, collecting dies with disc, as I have said dozens of times before, you can take that to the bank.

I linked it because you said:

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Digital HD has no future. Even the industry has stopped pushing them like they were.

I am saying they are still pushing Digital HD. That's why they came up with Movies Anywhere.

I am not saying Movies Anywhere will or won't be a success.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Dustin44

I linked it because you said:



I am saying they are still pushing Digital HD. That's why they came up with Movies Anywhere.

I am not saying Movies Anywhere will or won't be a success.

So because they give it lip service, they are still pushing it? Hardly a onslaught of promotion, is it?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Single digit growth is not the future of collecting, collecting dies with disc, as I have said dozens of times before, you can take that to the bank.

Will there still be banks by then though?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Will there still be banks by then though?

Yep, banks and sarcasm.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It's the Rental Market that supplies the Codes to the MA/UV Stores, but the Codes here on this Site do come from the Disc Market. My observation of no one wanting Disc comes from the shriking Disc displays at stores like Best Buy, Target, and WalMart. Also my sales of Discs on eBay are dismal. The other thing I noticed at WalMart, their sales of Vudu Digital Movies are doing very well by the way they need to restock the growing Digital Display.

The resale of digital codes brings a false sense of how digital movie buying market is doing. I'm sure that if it weren't for the resale of digital codes, or if none of the blu-rays included a digital code, then more people would be buying blu-rays and less people would be using digital because i doubt that many people would be buying a movie directly from a digital service.

Also in my area, many people browse the movies sections and buy movies in stores such as Best Buy and Movie Trading Company but I have yet to see a customer pick up an iTunes gift card from a store.

[Warnerbros2001]

I prefer physical media over digital, but digital will still have a place for my needs.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Warnerbros2001

I prefer physical media over digital, but digital will still have a place for my needs.

Same here, I use the codes for toilet paper when I forget to stock up.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Same here, I use the codes for toilet paper when I forget to stock up.

I offer mine for free over in the digital codes threads to watch the cheapskates salivate over them and then I retract my offer when someone tells me how "valuable" they are or when they get super excited at the prospect of getting something for nothing.

[Show spoiler]I'm just joking...I wouldn't break their little hearts like that.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Same here, I use the codes for toilet paper when I forget to stock up.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I offer mine for free over in the digital codes threads to watch the cheapskates salivate over them and then I retract my offer when someone tells me how "valuable" they are or when they get super excited at the prospect of getting something for nothing.

[Show spoiler]I'm just joking...I wouldn't break their little hearts like that.

See I wouldn't put it pass you guys to offer Codes then take them away. I don't even bother to look for Free Codes, but I will look for deals around $5 for Recent Releases.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

See I wouldn't put it pass you guys to offer Codes then take them away. I don't even bother to look for Free Codes, but I will look for deals around $5 for Resent Releases.

Firstly, it was my joke, not from any "guys", plural. No need to disparage anyone else for it.

Secondly, I included that spoiler because I had no doubt that people without reading comprehension skills, i.e.: you, would misunderstand my post.

I donate my duplicate discs as I have said many times before. I gave away two codes once to someone claiming a hardship. Believe that or not as you will; I don't give a damn which you choose.

Lastly, proof read your posts. Making typo mistakes are common enough, but at least correct them when they have been pointed out to you. Looking for "resent releases" and for just $5? You should be delighted to get such a deal and not be resentful at all, even if it is for a crappy code that you won't even support with an actual purchase at customary retail prices. Some digital proponent you are, only willing to buy codes if they are practically a steal. Still, $5 is $4.99 more than they are worth.

[Show spoiler]Do I need to explain this joke, too? Was the emoji usage clear enough for you?

[alchav21]

Boy aren't we touchy, I did correct the typo and just because I don't put any emojis doesn't mean I don't get it. Having said that, a lot of people still tell what they actually feel even though they say it's a joke.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Boy aren't we touchy

I prefer cantankerous.