Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Folks should remember the digital advocates appear to be city/urban dwellers. As such they appear to be unaware of how many folks in the US are using DSL, 3G, dial-up, satellite, etc. for internet service. People using the services have low speeds and/or pay a premium for their data so streaming is not a an option for them.

I am lucky in a way because I live 12 miles from a city center but I have internet via a cable company. I pay thru the nose for internet service, $80.00 for 25 mbps. It took 7 years for them to finally start delivering anywhere near that speed during prime time. I spent a lot of time calling, making charts, demanding refunds, etc. to get close to what I was paying for.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Folks should remember the digital advocates appear to be city/urban dwellers. As such they appear to be unaware of how many folks in the US are using DSL, 3G, dial-up, satellite, etc. for internet service. People using the services have low speeds and/or pay a premium for their data so streaming is not a an option for them.

I am lucky in a way because I live 12 miles from a city center but I have internet via a cable company. I pay thru the nose for internet service, $80.00 for 25 mbps. It took 7 years for them to finally start delivering anywhere near that speed during prime time. I spent a lot of time calling, making charts, demanding refunds, etc. to get close to what I was paying for.

About 35% of the U.S. does not have broadband internet as of Jan. 2018- that's 114.4 million people.

I am luckier than you, I pay $40 per month for 80 Mbps, but with a paltry data cap of 250 gb per month. If I even semi-regularly attempted to stream 4K, I would blast through that data cap quicker than lickety-split. This assumes my ISP is actually working, of course, and that has been a complete crap shoot. I would NEVER allow myself to become dependent on such a flaky service for my movie and television viewing.

My discs and my power company are reliable and my discs offer better quality, too. I will stick with them.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

My discs and my power company are reliable and my discs offer better quality, too. I will stick with them.

As mentioned earlier I have converted a few DVD's to HD digital ONLY because they were not available on Blu. Have made a couple of outright purchases for the same reason.

But I HATE making any purchases that are not covered by the First Sale Doctrine and ALL digital purchases are not covered. I bet few people have read the media TOS at VUDU, Amazon, etc.

Will be sticking with my Blu's for the foreseeable future.

[brap hawg]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Folks should remember the digital advocates appear to be city/urban dwellers. As such they appear to be unaware of how many folks in the US are using DSL, 3G, dial-up, satellite, etc. for internet service. People using the services have low speeds and/or pay a premium for their data so streaming is not a an option for them.

I am lucky in a way because I live 12 miles from a city center but I have internet via a cable company. I pay thru the nose for internet service, $80.00 for 25 mbps. It took 7 years for them to finally start delivering anywhere near that speed during prime time. I spent a lot of time calling, making charts, demanding refunds, etc. to get close to what I was paying for.

Internet speed and data caps are irrelevant. I could be a billionaire, have unlimited data, and the highest internet speed possible and I still wouldn't pay for digital distribution.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

As mentioned earlier I have converted a few DVD's to HD digital ONLY because they were not available on Blu. Have made a couple of outright purchases for the same reason.

But I HATE making any purchases that are not covered by the First Sale Doctrine and ALL digital purchases are not covered. I bet few people have read the media TOS at VUDU, Amazon, etc.

Will be sticking with my Blu's for the foreseeable future.

In my opinion resell value should not be of any importance when buying Blu-rays and DVDs. You get nearly nothing for reselling them anyways and even on ebay no one seems to want to buy a used Blu-ray for more than a few dollars, not to mention Paypal and ebay reselling fees that you end up with nothing to nearly nothing, not to mention the hassle is not worth it in my opinion. Last time I was selling Blu-rays to a pawn shop which was about one year ago, they only gave me $1 per Blu-ray. A physical media store in my area only offered 50 cents for a Blu-ray I wanted to sell so I declined the offer and I'm trying to resell it through other means but still no success.

[dcx4610]

Ultimately for me what it comes down to is being able to control my media. The only digital platform I'm comfortable with is Steam for gaming. With Steam, games are cheap, I've never had them remove a game on me, I can download and redownload them at will and my games carry over when I upgrade or on different devices.

Movies and music just don't have a platform like that. iTunes is the closest but they don't have everything and I don't like the interface and the lack of control you have over your content.

There may have been way too many streaming services pop up and die already. I'm not about to invest in digital content that can disappear on a whim. Even the mighty Amazon has had services disappear. Amazon Unbox was an app you could watch your digital content from. You could download the files to your local device and as long as you had the app, it would decrypt and play the files. They removed the app and now you have worthless video files that can't be played. No thanks.

Unless we get a Steam-like service for movies where I can download the files and do with them as I please without any DRM (yeah right), I'm sticking with Blu-ray/UHD. I at least have control over when and where I watch as long as I have the disc. That's something.

[stonesfan129]

I'm staying with discs for movies, whether that be 4K UHD, Blu-ray or DVD. I stupidly threw away a bunch of my cases and now I have decided I like storing them on the shelves in my den to display. Then I can sit down there, pick one and watch a movie. I just don't get that experience with digital. With music, I am totally fine going 100% to iTunes.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by PCFan

In my opinion resell value should not be of any importance when buying Blu-rays and DVDs. You get nearly nothing for reselling them anyways and even on ebay no one seems to want to buy a used Blu-ray for more than a few dollars, not to mention Paypal and ebay reselling fees that you end up with nothing to nearly nothing, not to mention the hassle is not worth it in my opinion. Last time I was selling Blu-rays to a pawn shop which was about one year ago, they only gave me $1 per Blu-ray. A physical media store in my area only offered 50 cents for a Blu-ray I wanted to sell so I declined the offer and I'm trying to resell it through other means but still no success.

its 2 sides of the same coin you can buy blu rays for like 50 cents and you can also sell them if you know the market for more then you payed for them. Its not really worth selling your entire collection but its easily worth cherry picking your collection and selling a few titles that have a way higher market value then your own personal valuation.

Personally I take full advantage of both sides of that coin as I am always listing around 80 items to sell at any one time and I don't mind buying blu rays dirt cheap neither of which you can do with digital media because digital media doesn't have a free market.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It's the Rental Market that supplies the Codes to the MA/UV Stores, but the Codes here on this Site do come from the Disc Market. My observation of no one wanting Disc comes from the shriking Disc displays at stores like Best Buy, Target, and WalMart. Also my sales of Discs on eBay are dismal. The other thing I noticed at WalMart, their sales of Vudu6, Digital Movies are doing very well by the way they need to restock the growing Digital Display.

That's all anecdotal. It's quite simple if you want to know how discs are doing: look at the sales figures. So far this year, DVD is down 19.66% in dollars (in the U.S.) and Blu is down 6.27% in dollars and 7.94% in units. At its current rate (not actually a reliable figure because we don't know what hits are coming the rest of the year), Blu will come in at about $1.785 billion. It was $1.89 in 2017, $2.04 in 2016, $2.02 in 2015, $2.12 in 2014, $2.3 in 2013, $2.19 in 2012, $2.01 in 2011, $1.7 in 2010 and $1.3 in 2009.

Blu-ray, year-to-date, has a 44.3% dollar share of physical media and still only a 28.9% unit share. Share is rising, but it's primarily due to DVD sales falling off much faster than Blu sales. In a typical week, Blu has a 50% share of the top 50 titles and UHD has about a 6% share.

Personally, the only time I stream music is when bike riding and the only time I stream video is when it's a movie I don't really care about, that I know I'm only going to want to see only once and which I didn't want to pay NYC theater prices to see. I need to have physical media: I need to see it on the shelf to be aware that it exists.

But having said that, when I look at the industry from a business analysis view, there's no doubt that all physical music and video media is in decline in favor of streaming. In the U.S. music business, CD unit sales in 2017 were just 9.3% of their former peak. Yikes! That doesn't mean that CD's or Blu disappear completely, but over the coming years, it's going to be more and more a hobbyist and niche business unless there's a future cultural change back towards ownership and collecting.

Two things that could push it back in that direction are a failure of some of the streaming companies and/ot the end of net neutrality resulting in slower speed streaming (assuming the streaming companies will refuse to pay ransom to the ISPs) to the point where video streaming in high quality, especially UHD, is not viable, except perhaps from the companies who do both, like AT&T, which is why they bought Warner Bros.

[Vor4]

Originally Posted by PCFan

The resale of digital codes brings a false sense of how digital movie buying market is doing. I'm sure that if it weren't for the resale of digital codes, or if none of the blu-rays included a digital code, then more people would be buying blu-rays and less people would be using digital because i doubt that many people would be buying a movie directly from a digital service.

Also in my area, many people browse the movies sections and buy movies in stores such as Best Buy and Movie Trading Company but I have yet to see a customer pick up an iTunes gift card from a store.

Originally Posted by PCFan

In my opinion resell value should not be of any importance when buying Blu-rays and DVDs. You get nearly nothing for reselling them anyways and even on ebay no one seems to want to buy a used Blu-ray for more than a few dollars, not to mention Paypal and ebay reselling fees that you end up with nothing to nearly nothing, not to mention the hassle is not worth it in my opinion. Last time I was selling Blu-rays to a pawn shop which was about one year ago, they only gave me $1 per Blu-ray. A physical media store in my area only offered 50 cents for a Blu-ray I wanted to sell so I declined the offer and I'm trying to resell it through other means but still no success.

You’re praising physical media, then putting digital media down, then being against physical media due to poor resale value on eBay and getting offered a low amount at second hand media stores for Blu-ray movies. And finally praising digital media.

A lot of people don’t believe you when you say that you see a lot of people buying blurays and dvds at stores. When I was in Dallas, TX two weeks ago, I was at a Best Buy and no one was at the physical media area.

All the time I see people buying iTunes gift cards when they are on sale. Most people prefer to buy iTunes gift cards online.

The current trend is that physical media is on a rapid decline. It’s down by 46% this time period from a year ago. Within several months, I think that Best Buy, Walmart, and Target will stop selling Blu-ray movies, 4K movies, and dvd movies, and instead they will sell digital movie code cards (I know that Walmart has started it). Also I think that Amazon will charge a premium for those who want to buy physical media movies, or be an Amazon Prime Member, or only have limited quantities.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Vor4

You’re praising physical media, then putting digital media down, then being against physical media due to poor resale value on eBay and getting offered a low amount at second hand media stores for Blu-ray movies. And finally praising digital media.

A lot of people don’t believe you when you say that you see a lot of people buying blurays and dvds at stores. When I was in Dallas, TX two weeks ago, I was at a Best Buy and no one was at the physical media area.

All the time I see people buying iTunes gift cards when they are on sale. Most people prefer to buy iTunes gift cards online.

The current trend is that physical media is on a rapid decline. It’s down by 46% this time period from a year ago. Within several months, I think that Best Buy, Walmart, and Target will stop selling Blu-ray movies, 4K movies, and dvd movies, and instead they will sell digital movie code cards (I know that Walmart has started it). Also I think that Amazon will charge a premium for those who want to buy physical media movies, or be an Amazon Prime Member, or only have limited quantities.

I have never seen people buying iTunes gift cards. I do see people buying movies for new releases. That's the problem with anecdotal evidence with such small sample sizes its all meaningless.

[brap hawg]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

Ultimately for me what it comes down to is being able to control my media. The only digital platform I'm comfortable with is Steam for gaming. With Steam, games are cheap, I've never had them remove a game on me, I can download and redownload them at will and my games carry over when I upgrade or on different devices.

Movies and music just don't have a platform like that. iTunes is the closest but they don't have everything and I don't like the interface and the lack of control you have over your content.

There may have been way too many streaming services pop up and die already. I'm not about to invest in digital content that can disappear on a whim. Even the mighty Amazon has had services disappear. Amazon Unbox was an app you could watch your digital content from. You could download the files to your local device and as long as you had the app, it would decrypt and play the files. They removed the app and now you have worthless video files that can't be played. No thanks.

Unless we get a Steam-like service for movies where I can download the files and do with them as I please without any DRM (yeah right), I'm sticking with Blu-ray/UHD. I at least have control over when and where I watch as long as I have the disc. That's something.

Steam is a disgusting "service" and you shouldn't be giving money to them. It is neither a good or service, it is worse than rent seeking since it takes value away. It doesn't have the convenience or freedom of piracy and doesn't have the added value of a physical copy.
Being cheap doesn't really mean anything when you aren't getting anything in return for your money, especially when you can get a 100% discount from piracy without having to financially support a shitty company or business tactics.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

That's all anecdotal. It's quite simple if you want to know how discs are doing: look at the sales figures. So far this year, DVD is down 19.66% in dollars (in the U.S.) and Blu is down 6.27% in dollars and 7.94% in units. At its current rate (not actually a reliable figure because we don't know what hits are coming the rest of the year), Blu will come in at about $1.785 billion. It was $1.89 in 2017, $2.04 in 2016, $2.02 in 2015, $2.12 in 2014, $2.3 in 2013, $2.19 in 2012, $2.01 in 2011, $1.7 in 2010 and $1.3 in 2009.

Blu-ray, year-to-date, has a 44.3% dollar share of physical media and still only a 28.9% unit share. Share is rising, but it's primarily due to DVD sales falling off much faster than Blu sales. In a typical week, Blu has a 50% share of the top 50 titles and UHD has about a 6% share.

Personally, the only time I stream music is when bike riding and the only time I stream video is when it's a movie I don't really care about, that I know I'm only going to want to see only once and which I didn't want to pay NYC theater prices to see. I need to have physical media: I need to see it on the shelf to be aware that it exists.

But having said that, when I look at the industry from a business analysis view, there's no doubt that all physical music and video media is in decline in favor of streaming. In the U.S. music business, CD unit sales in 2017 were just 9.3% of their former peak. Yikes! That doesn't mean that CD's or Blu disappear completely, but over the coming years, it's going to be more and more a hobbyist and niche business unless there's a future cultural change back towards ownership and collecting.

Two things that could push it back in that direction are a failure of some of the streaming companies and/ot the end of net neutrality resulting in slower speed streaming (assuming the streaming companies will refuse to pay ransom to the ISPs) to the point where video streaming in high quality, especially UHD, is not viable, except perhaps from the companies who do both, like AT&T, which is why they bought Warner Bros.

There is no way the likes of Netflix, Amazon, Disney, Apple don’t pay that ransom if the option is going under or doing more business. It simply wouldn’t happen. Those guys would lose everything. Also 720p quality would be acceptable to future gens that simply don’t care about higher quality. Netflix can squeeze out 720p at around 2-3 Mbps. 1080p would also be doable, even on a slow connection. I used to be able to get 1080p on just 3.5 Mbps connection.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vor4

You’re praising physical media, then putting digital media down, then being against physical media due to poor resale value on eBay and getting offered a low amount at second hand media stores for Blu-ray movies. And finally praising digital media.

A lot of people don’t believe you when you say that you see a lot of people buying blurays and dvds at stores. When I was in Dallas, TX two weeks ago, I was at a Best Buy and no one was at the physical media area.

All the time I see people buying iTunes gift cards when they are on sale. Most people prefer to buy iTunes gift cards online.

The current trend is that physical media is on a rapid decline. It’s down by 46% this time period from a year ago. Within several months, I think that Best Buy, Walmart, and Target will stop selling Blu-ray movies, 4K movies, and dvd movies, and instead they will sell digital movie code cards (I know that Walmart has started it). Also I think that Amazon will charge a premium for those who want to buy physical media movies, or be an Amazon Prime Member, or only have limited quantities.

Several months? Not a chance.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Vor4

A lot of people don’t believe you when you say that you see a lot of people buying blurays and dvds at stores. When I was in Dallas, TX two weeks ago, I was at a Best Buy and no one was at the physical media area.

All the time I see people buying iTunes gift cards when they are on sale. Most people prefer to buy iTunes gift cards online.

The current trend is that physical media is on a rapid decline. It’s down by 46% this time period from a year ago. Within several months, I think that Best Buy, Walmart, and Target will stop selling Blu-ray movies, 4K movies, and dvd movies, and instead they will sell digital movie code cards (I know that Walmart has started it). Also I think that Amazon will charge a premium for those who want to buy physical media movies, or be an Amazon Prime Member, or only have limited quantities.

I monitor the Home Video Sales thread and physical media is not down 46%. For the year ending 2017, physical media was down 14.1%. For the first quarter of 2018, disc sales were down just 10%. See the fifth bullet in this article:

https://degonline.org/wp-content/upl...ent_Report.pdf

4K disc sales skyrocketed 130% and comprised 12% of all disc sales. Disc sales were 19.3% of total home entertainment spending in the first quarter of 2018.

As yet another refresher, here is the end of year sales data for 2017:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=741

Weekly snapshots, such as these: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=914, do not tell us very much as they only compare a single week of this year with the same single week from the previous year. Individual weeks vary widely and often wildly, too. As much as I like the snapshot I chose there, I would never foolishly claim that discs sales were up 36.43% overall. Please post a source for your wild claim of a 46% decline and not just a random cherry picked weekly snapshot; until then it is summarily dismissed as nonsense.

Discs will not be disappearing from stores in several months. No one believes that, except you, and I am confident that you would not bet any money on such a foolish prediction. Let's check back on this absurd prognostication one year from today.

Amazon will not be charging any "premium" for discs because no one is discontinuing them. You can buy discs from multiple stores and from multiple websites and that will not be changing, either.

As for what people believe, you can not speak for "a lot" of them; you can only speak for yourself. You are free to believe anything you choose. Facts, however, are immune to beliefs.

Anecdotal experiences are no replacement for hard sales data. The sample size in an anecdote is too trivial, too localized, and the observations are biased and unscientific. People tend to see what they want to see. It is exactly why every single industry collects and analyzes actual sales data as opposed to just asking a couple of people what they saw while shopping at a Walmart in Poughkeepsie.

As far as such anecdotes go, I have never seen anyone purchase a digital code from a retail store. With your logic, I should conclude then that no buys them at all.

When it comes to purchases, discs outsold codes by more than two to one in 2017. This is a fact borne out by actual sales data, not from a random shopping trip sighting. EST is up 9% in the first quarter of 2018; it ended 2017 up nearly 6%, but disc is still the preferred purchase method by far and the only true form of content ownership where the customer has complete control over their paid for content. Disc remains the best in video and audio quality, also, and those who value the best, they buy disc. They will continue to buy disc, both in store and online.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vor4

A lot of people don’t believe you when you say that you see a lot of people buying blurays and dvds at stores. When I was in Dallas, TX two weeks ago, I was at a Best Buy and no one was at the physical media area.

All the time I see people buying iTunes gift cards when they are on sale. Most people prefer to buy iTunes gift cards online.

The current trend is that physical media is on a rapid decline. It’s down by 46% this time period from a year ago. Within several months, I think that Best Buy, Walmart, and Target will stop selling Blu-ray movies, 4K movies, and dvd movies, and instead they will sell digital movie code cards (I know that Walmart has started it). Also I think that Amazon will charge a premium for those who want to buy physical media movies, or be an Amazon Prime Member, or only have limited quantities.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Discs will not be disappearing from stores in several months. No one believes that, except you, and I am confident that you would not bet any money on such a foolish prediction. Let's check back on this absurd prognostication one year from today.

Amazon will not be charging any "premium" for discs because no one is discontinuing them. You can buy discs from multiple stores and from multiple websites and that will not be changing, either.

As for what people believe, you can not speak for "a lot" of them; you can only speak for yourself. You are free to believe anything you choose. Facts, however, are immune to beliefs.

Anecdotal experiences are no replacement for hard sales data. The sample size in an anecdote is too trivial, too localized, and the observations are biased and unscientific. People tend to see what they want to see. It is exactly why every single industry collects and analyzes actual sales data as opposed to just asking a couple of people what they saw while shopping at a Walmart in Poughkeepsie.

As far as such anecdotes go, I have never seen anyone purchase a digital code from a retail store. With your logic, I should conclude then that no buys them at all.

When it comes to purchases, discs outsold codes by more than two to one in 2017. This is a fact borne out by actual sales data, not from a random shopping trip sighting. EST is up 9% in the first quarter of 2018; it ended 2017 up nearly 6%, but disc is still the preferred purchase method by far and the only true form of content ownership where the customer has complete control over their paid for content. Disc remains the best in video and audio quality, also, and those who value the best, they buy disc. They will continue to buy disc, both in store and online.

Vilya like you said, you see what you want to see, but to many it's obvious Discs are on the way out. Sure it's making a bold statement that they will be gone in a few months, then again it's only from those stores so not to worry you guys buy OnLine. I guess you guys better head to those stores if you don't want Discs to disappear from them. Even WalMart with the bigger displays and stocks, not too many people are shopping when I'm there. Like I said, the Distributors handle the stocks, so it will all depend on them. What you have to ask is what's after the 4K Disk. If it's 8K, which they may be able to put on the same size Disc, the difference is negligible. That is the main complaint about BD to 4K. It will have to be 16K, and what size Disc or Storage will you need? Discs are Fading Fast!

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by Vor4

You’re praising physical media, then putting digital media down, then being against physical media due to poor resale value on eBay and getting offered a low amount at second hand media stores for Blu-ray movies. And finally praising digital media.

A lot of people don’t believe you when you say that you see a lot of people buying blurays and dvds at stores. When I was in Dallas, TX two weeks ago, I was at a Best Buy and no one was at the physical media area.

All the time I see people buying iTunes gift cards when they are on sale. Most people prefer to buy iTunes gift cards online.

The current trend is that physical media is on a rapid decline. It’s down by 46% this time period from a year ago. Within several months, I think that Best Buy, Walmart, and Target will stop selling Blu-ray movies, 4K movies, and dvd movies, and instead they will sell digital movie code cards (I know that Walmart has started it). Also I think that Amazon will charge a premium for those who want to buy physical media movies, or be an Amazon Prime Member, or only have limited quantities.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Vilya like you said, you see what you want to see, but to many it's obvious Discs are on the way out. Sure it's making a bold statement that they will be gone in a few months, then again it's only from those stores so not to worry you guys buy OnLine. I guess you guys better head to those stores if you don't want Discs to disappear from them. Even WalMart with the bigger displays and stocks, not too many people are shopping when I'm there. Like I said, the Distributors handle the stocks, so it will all depend on them. What you have to ask is what's after the 4K Disk. If it's 8K, which they may be able to put on the same size Disc, the difference is negligible. That is the main complaint about BD to 4K. It will have to be 16K, and what size Disc or Storage will you need? Discs are Fading Fast!

I hardly see what I want to see. If I did, I would be saying that disc sales are on the rise, but I read the actual sales data and I see the decline all too clearly. Unlike you, I can tell the difference between reality and fantasy.

I, personally, do not care what stores stock as I buy over 95% of my discs online. Unbeatable selection and great prices are hallmarks of online retailers.

Still, I like seeing discs in stores because many people still prefer to shop there and discs, like most of life's little luxuries, are often bought on impulse.

If there is an 8K format to come, it will almost certainly be a physical medium due to the huge amounts of data involved. Many people can not stream in 4K now and those that do have to worry about their data caps. 8K will use tremendous amounts of data, even after streaming providers compress the hell out of it.

8K will offer 33 million pixels versus the 8 million pixels of 4K. This many pixels makes them effectively indistinguishable even on the largest of displays at a distance of just 1 inch from the screen. 8K will offer a far wider viewing angle at a full 100 degrees (4K offers a 55 degree viewing angle). 8K will produce an even wider range of colors than what 4K WCG offers now. It comes ever closer to the limits of human vision itself. 8K supports frame rates up to 120 Hz progressive. 8K can even accommodate 22.2 channels of audio. It has also been said that 8K can support 3D without the need for special glasses.

The difference between high definition blu-rays and 4K discs are very impressive unless you are considering only the resolution aspect of it. The Wide Color Gamut, seeing more of the color spectrum, and the High Dynamic Range/ Dolby Vision improvements are what really make a 4K presentation stand out. Anyone who can not see these improvements must have either poorly calibrated gear, bad vision, or both. Whether or not these gains are worth the cost is up to each person to decide, but the cost has become very affordable.

Discs are not "fading fast." They are declining, certainly, 10% in the first quarter of 2018, but this decline will eventually plateau. Discs have a solid and dedicated fanbase that prize the best in quality. There are enough of us to ensure the survival of physical media. Further, 35% of Americans lack broadband internet, streaming is not really an option for them, and buying discs will allow them to enjoy the very best in video and audio quality.

All disc formats are readily available in stores, even in small rural areas like where I live, and obviously online. Every single week 50-70 new titles are released on just blu-ray and 4K. Still more when you add in DVD releases, which I seldom track. Discs will remain; they are not "fading"; they are not "on the way out"; they are not "dying." Discs are resilient and they will endure. I will be correcting you for years to come.

[Kage]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I hardly see what I want to see. If I did, I would be saying that disc sales are on the rise, but I read the actual sales data and I see the decline all too clearly. Unlike you, I can tell the difference between reality and fantasy.

I, personally, do not care what stores stock as I buy over 95% of my discs online. Unbeatable selection and great prices are hallmarks of online retailers.

Still, I like seeing discs in stores because many people still prefer to shop there and discs, like most of life's little luxuries, are often bought on impulse.

Lately, Amazon and other stores are slowing down or limiting the numbers of physical disc purchases from distributors, or stopped buying discs. When they sell out of the discs, there’s a high chance that they won’t be reordered. The retail stores including Amazon know that physical media is on the way out.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Kage

Lately, Amazon and other stores are slowing down or limiting the numbers of physical disc purchases from distributors, or stopped buying discs. When they sell out of the discs, there’s a good chance that they won’t be reordered. The retail stores including Amazon know that physical media is on the way out.

Complete and utter nonsense.

What limits and by whom? What retailer has stopped stocking discs? Where is your proof? I know already: you have none. There is no good business reason not to restock something that sells out. A product that sells out is exactly the product a business would want to restock. I will continue to use actual sales data to gauge the market for physical media. Conjecture, anecdotes, baseless predictions, and hyperbole are worthless.

In 2017, discs sales were approximately 23% of all home entertainment spending ($4.716 billion dollars). In the first quarter of 2018, disc sales comprised 19.3 % of that market ($1.1 billion as of March 31st). No industry (home entertainment) is going to discard one-fifth to one-quarter of their revenue stream.

You know nothing about Amazon's stocking decisions. Again, where is your proof? I maintain a disc wishlist on Amazon and at any given time I have about 250 titles on it. Many of my low interest titles have been on that wishlist since 2012 and all of these titles are still available for purchase- Amazon keeps them in stock. I guess they didn't get your memo, maybe? Only my interest level and my movie budget limits the number of movies I buy.

I have placed 32 orders with Amazon so far this year. I have also placed 6 orders with Amazon.uk and 1 with Amazon.fr. I have been a customer with Amazon since 2004 and I have been a Prime member since Prime first began in 2005. I am absolutely confident that I am more familiar with Amazon than you are, especially regarding physical media.

I place an online order for discs virtually every single week and I have had no problems receiving each title that I have ordered. No delays due to backorders and no order cancellations- all of my orders have been fulfilled.

So far this year I have purchased 39 titles on 4K disc, 100 titles on blu-ray, and 4 titles on DVD from multiple online retailers and brick & mortar stores. That's an average of 23.8 new additions to my disc library each month.

The DVD is 21 years old, blu-ray is 12 years old, and 4K disc is 2 years old. The CD will turn 36 years old this October. Physical media is not going away. I can still buy compact discs on Amazon, and in my local stores, despite people like you telling me for years that cds were dead. Physical media is so common that all of these formats are stocked at the stores in my rural area. The largest town here for 60 miles in any direction has a population of just 26,000, yet the stores here carry every physical media format. DVDs, blu-rays, and now 4K discs are readily available, even here in small town America, and they will remain available for many long years to come. I will be gone before they are.