Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

That could go the other way too. Just think of what practices could be commonplace in the future that aren't now.



My post was meant to point out the ridulous statements on both sides. I don't think any of them are accurate.

My concerns about digital have always been much smaller in scale but still very important. Some titles will be removed from digital marketplaces and no longer be available for sale due to unpopularity or copyright disputes (this has already happened). Some of those titles will be removed from people's digital collections after a few years or decades (this has already happened with digital video games and music).

I don't know how anyone can think that predictions of "more of the same will continue to happen" is an outlandish claim.



None of them are facts, here are the facts:

Discs have a very low failure rate and are easy to replace.
Fires and floods could wipe out your collection, but it is extremely unlikely.
Physical media sales are down about 10% this year and the rate of decline is slowing. Blu-ray and Ultra HD Blu-ray are both up.
Physical media prices continue to drop.
Less people buy physical media than they used to, but billions of dollars are still being spent every year.

I don't even know how to respond to alchav's claims of "Physical media buyers will be left behind", there is no factual equivalent.



My trips to Amazon.com confirm that physical media continues to sell great, it's just being bought online.

Blu and 4K are only up right now due to the phenomenon that is Black Panther IMO.

Im sure Last Jedi and Thor: Ragnarok helped as well as should Infinity war but I think things will level out as the year goes on and there are no more heavy hitt

[Groot]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

It was coincidental that the movie you mentioned was one that was unavailable, but the fact that there are any movies that are unavailable proves my point. What if you had been in the mood to watch Halloween 5 (or one of the thousands of movies that are no longer available to buy or rent digitally)?

I'm in the mood to watch Human Target Season 2 but I don't own it. It never got a physical release and has been removed from digital marketplaces. How would you suggest I watch it?

I already answered that question. It's on iTunes.

YouTube Red for your other problem. There's ...other ways too.

Nothing "proves" your point because you don't have a point to begin with. I give zero f's if media comes and goes. Until the last 30 years the concept of owning film didn't even exist in the mainstream. How many shows, like Doctor Who, have lost episodes? Oh noes, my life is over cause I won't see them. I don't care if in 20-30 years stuff disappears. You brow beat this point to death. People buying digital are not sitting around going "Hey, if I don't get cancer or heart disease will I still have my copy of Boss Baby when I'm 63?"

You aren't entitled to control the distribution of someones intellectual property and they can do as they damn well please because they pay to maintain the license and rights. You want discs because you feel entitled to control over your "long time" rental disc, but whining about how someone distributes their work is entitlement. Unless you're like Vilya with garbage internet, which sometime in the future will catch up to modern standards hopefully, you just need to move on from others accepting how an IP holder controls their shit and LIKES instant access.

You let on like they're gonna pull the plug on thousands of titles and people will just shrug and not complain if that happens. The studios have no financial incentive to do that. Technology only gets smaller but holds more data every year. This is not complicated.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by flyry

I'm not here to argue semantics. Some of you geeks just take it way too far. You know exactly what I meant and are just arguing for arguing sakes. A little too much free time since you retired so early if you ask me.

Pretty much. Most of the arguments are regurgitated over and over.



I think of that meme every time I read this trash. DEYYYYY TOOK OUR DIIIIGIIIIITAAAL COPIIIIIEES. What'd ya say Skeeter? Dey took 'ur UV's away? HHHHERRRRGHHH.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Your solution is piracy?



The first sale doctrine was established because it was important that companies (or individuals) didn't retain absolute control of the works they've already sold, but now people are willingly give up that right.

I don't expect to convince you or alchav or the other big digital supporters but my hope is that others reading this thread who are on the fence choose physical. More people buying physical media equals more titles available on physical media.



That is exactly what I expect will happen. In a decade or two when there are hundreds of thousands of titles most people won't complain when tens of thousands of unpopular ones are removed. Doing that would save the studios and providers millions of dollars.

All of this would be moot if copyright lengths were drastically shorter. I would absolutely support something like Project Gutenberg for public domain movies, that's the right way to treat art.



That's how forums work. Both sides repeat the same arguments over and over. If you have a problem with it then stop reading and posting in the thread.

There are technically legal ways to stream or download from vendors not in the US. I'm not going into them, but it takes two seconds to google the crap TV show you mentioned.

You clearly have nothing invested in IP rights or you wouldn't be so apt to cut the head of that snake off.

Thanks for informing me on how forums work. I am glad me and others owning digital movies pisses you off this much. I don't even know you but just the fact of how condescending and rude 99% of your posts comes off gives me great pleasure that shit you clearly enjoy isn't viewable for you because you got a hang up with streaming and think you have the right to control how companies or others release and buy their products.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

Blu and 4K are only up right now due to the phenomenon that is Black Panther IMO.

Im sure Last Jedi and Thor: Ragnarok helped as well as should Infinity war but I think things will level out as the year goes on and there are no more heavy hitt

Blu-ray AND Digital HD are both formats that are reliant on blockbusters for their main revenue? What’s your point?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

I'm not here to argue semantics. Some of you geeks just take it way too far. You know exactly what I meant and are just arguing for arguing sakes. A little too much free time since you retired so early if you ask me.

See, when you are backed into a corner you resort to insults. Absolute hypocrites some of you imo.

It’s a absolute cop out. You know what you said, so do we.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Yes it does, that's how language works.

Guardians of the Galaxy is available on Blu-ray. TRUE
Guardians of the Galaxy is only available on Blu-ray. FALSE

One word makes a big difference.



It was coincidental that the movie you mentioned was one that was unavailable, but the fact that there are any movies that are unavailable proves my point. What if you had been in the mood to watch Halloween 5 (or one of the thousands of movies that are no longer available to buy or rent digitally)?

I'm in the mood to watch Human Target Season 2 but I don't own it. It never got a physical release and has been removed from digital marketplaces. How would you suggest I watch it?

I’m in the mood for Annihilation, I can’t buy it in the best quality because it’s Netflix exclusive. This will happen more and more. You will need five or six subscriptions.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Groot

I meant Halloween 6, the Curse of Michael Myers. I did specifically say PAUL RUDD. How bent do you have to be to go on this sort of fishing expedition? I own it right now in my little VUDU account cause I did want to watch it one night.

And if I wanted it Halloween 5 is on iTunes.

There is the problem right there. Two services to watch two different films. Times that by half a dozen when the subscription model locks into place and exclusives come to the fore on a far more consistent basis.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

There is the problem right there. Two services to watch two different films. Times that by half a dozen when the subscription model locks into place and exclusives come to the fore on a far more consistent basis.

If a Mercedes has a feature a Honda doesn’t are you entitled to it if you can’t afford the Mercedes? Walmart has T-shirt’s, so does Saks Fifth Avenue. Do you have the right to the products if you can’t afford it because they are better and will last longer? They’re the same type of product.

You, me or nobody is entitled to every piece of media. Distribution changes. Costs change. Something replaces an obsolete product.

Most people’s bladder control doesn’t last as long as you want access to movies...

[Groot]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Treat others as you yourself would want to be treated. Even those who own intellectual properties shouldn't want them restricted because they wouldn't like it if others restricted their access to the other intellectual properties they like.



I read this with a smile on my face. It's very difficult for someone to piss me off.

That’s why people pay for licenses. Art isn’t yours for the taking.

Mmhmm. I may agree with that. Anyone who gets bent over digital copies may be the type used to being talked down to and let’s things slide.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Groot

If a Mercedes has a feature a Honda doesn’t are you entitled to it if you can’t afford the Mercedes? Walmart has T-shirt’s, so does Saks Fifth Avenue. Do you have the right to the products if you can’t afford it because they are better and will last longer? They’re the same type of product.

You, me or nobody is entitled to every piece of media. Distribution changes. Costs change. Something replaces an obsolete product.

Most people’s bladder control doesn’t last as long as you want access to movies...

We are not talking add ins or nice little features. We are talking about whole films and tv shows. The stuff that has been available to everyone for many decades. That is about to change. That’s pretty shitty, no?

You are the industry's Perfect customer. Someone who will accept everything they throw at you, no matter how limiting.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

We are not talking add ins or nice little features. We are talking about whole films and tv shows. The stuff that has been available to everyone for many decades. That is about to change. That’s pretty shitty, no?

Have you had problems with limited release movies? People haven’t been able to see every movie they want on the big screen because of that. What about exclusive disc content? Do you feel the same way that features on discs shouldn’t varying by retailer?

The films are still available. You need a big two whopping services to access them if you wish to buy media. No different than some movies aren’t on Blu but on dvd. You have to deal with the different type of disc and quality. Or what about those discs that are only region B and I need a different type of player to watch those?

With services like BritBox, Acorn, Netflix...those troubles go away. You can buy on iTunes and keep forever. You can use MA or Vudu. Just like you can import discs, buy different players, have to use lesser quality media, blah blah blah.

It all washes out into the same exact thing. Except in the long run, or at least for heavy media users, it’s cheaper to be digital.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

You are the industry's Perfect customer. Someone who will accept everything they throw at you, no matter how limiting.

When it makes it easier and more convenient for me, sure. I’ve been buying and rebuying titles since VHS. I don’t care to do it again. Just like I buy clothes when ones get worn out or go drop $180 on new basketball shoes when I want or need new ones. Commerce makes the world go round and I’m not fighting it. I don’t even keep my cellphones past a year or so. I’m all for embracing new tech. If it bites me in the ass and I gotta buy movies again when I’m older, that’s cool.

And also given I’m part of their industry I have no problems with it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Groot

Have you had problems with limited release movies? People haven’t been able to see every movie they want on the big screen because of that. What about exclusive disc content? Do you feel the same way that features on discs shouldn’t varying by retailer?

The films are still available. You need a big two whopping services to access them if you wish to buy media. No different than some movies aren’t on Blu but on dvd. You have to deal with the different type of disc and quality. Or what about those discs that are only region B and I need a different type of player to watch those?

With services like BritBox, Acorn, Netflix...those troubles go away. You can buy on iTunes and keep forever. You can use MA or Vudu. Just like you can import discs, buy different players, have to use lesser quality media, blah blah blah.

It all washes out into the same exact thing. Except in the long run, or at least for heavy media users, it’s cheaper to be digital.

Yeah, good luck with the last bit in a year or two.

Have I had issues? Yes. I can’t buy Annihilation because it is exclusive to Netflix, same with Hush. I can’t watch ‘The Terror’ on Blu-ray because it is exclusive to AMC BT in the U.K. I can’t watch the Katate Kid spin off because it is exclusive to Youtube Red. When Disney, Apple and AT&T launch their next services, that will increase ten- fold.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah, good luck with the last bit in a year or two.

Have I had issues? Yes. I can’t buy Annihilation because it is exclusive to Netflix, same with Hush. I can’t watch ‘The Terror’ on Blu-ray because it is exclusive to AMC BT in the U.K. I can’t watch the Katate Kid spin off because it is exclusive to Youtube Red. When Disney, Apple and AT&T launch their next services, that will increase ten- fold.

So your issues either boils down to you don’t like the quality or don’t want to pay/and or cannot afford the cost of the platforms.

You do realize a lot of these shows and movies wouldn’t even be made without these platforms right? If YouTube wasn’t popular already they wouldn’t have had the funds to throw at an idea that others turned down.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Groot

When it makes it easier and more convenient for me, sure. I’ve been buying and rebuying titles since VHS. I don’t care to do it again. Just like I buy clothes when ones get worn out or go drop $180 on new basketball shoes when I want or need new ones. Commerce makes the world go round and I’m not fighting it. I don’t even keep my cellphones past a year or so. I’m all for embracing new tech. If it bites me in the ass and I gotta buy movies again when I’m older, that’s cool.

And also given I’m part of their industry I have no problems with it.

Yeah, and beg my pardon but I’m guessing you get by quite well with your job. Imagine a film lover with a wife and three kids. Imagine the expense to catch up with all the content the family wants. Imagine a home cinema set up with seven different subscriptions, all of which will increase in price. (Netflix, it is rumoured, will have second price raise in a year soon)

I could probably scrape by with all the services but you can’t tell me that will be cheaper than the way I do things now, im not buying it. Plus, i want the best quality. Where are my options once exclusives take hold?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Groot

So your issues either boils down to you don’t like the quality or don’t want to pay/and or cannot afford the cost of the platforms.

You do realize a lot of these shows and movies wouldn’t even be made without these platforms right? If YouTube wasn’t popular already they wouldn’t have had the funds to throw at an idea that others turned down.

It’s human nature to desire something we can’t have when we love that specific thing.

You asked, I answered. Annihilation is a film I would love in the best quality. It got a release in the U.S I understand?

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah, and beg my pardon but I’m guessing you get by quite well with your job. Imagine a film lover with a wife and three kids. Imagine the expense to catch up with all the content the family wants. Imagine a home cinema set up with seven different subscriptions, all of which will increase in price. (Netflix, it is rumoured, will have second price raise in a year soon)

I could probably scrape by with all the services but you can’t tell me that will be cheaper than the way I do things now, im not buying it. Plus, i want the best quality. Where are my options once exclusives take hold?

Don’t need to imagine having 7 subscriptions given I have way more than that:

Originally Posted by Groot

Considering I already pay for:

HBO
Showtime
STARZ
PS Vue
YouTube Red
Directv
NFL Sunday Ticket
NBA Gamepass
Hulu
Netflix
Prime
Acorn TV
Britbox

What do you think?

I’ll buy into Disney’s streaming service, I’d hop on another if it had content I wanted. I don’t care.

I don’t have that husband and three kids tho. I did take care of my uncle and grandma until they died and made it so my parents haven’t had to work in 16 years. I assume that counts.

So yeah, I may be an outlier on the income demographic here, in the end my spending on those products is cheaper than somes monthly spend on discs.

I can burn through multiple show seasons, films, etc that would easily run me $500-600 if not more depending on what I’m watching each month. I spend around $400 for everything that allows others to watch whatever media they want, which It would be lower if you removed the sports packages. It’d be closer to $100 a month to have all main subscriptions, or $130 if you want the Vue package or something similar for cable channels.

The average cable subscription was $130 or something like that. I don’t see the problem. That’s 6 Blu’s. Streaming is cheaper.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Groot

Don’t need to imagine having 7 subscriptions given I have way more than that:



I don’t have that husband and three kids tho. I did take care of my uncle and grandma until they died and made it so my parents haven’t had to work in 16 years. I assume that counts.

So yeah, I may be an outlier on the income demographic here, in the end my spending on those products is cheaper than somes monthly spend on discs.

I can burn through multiple show seasons, films, etc that would easily run me $500-600 if not more depending on what I’m watching each month. I spend around $400 for everything that allows others to watch whatever media they want, which It would be lower if you removed the sports packages. It’d be closer to $100 a month to have all main subscriptions, or $130 if you want the Vue package or something similar for cable channels.

The average cable subscription was $130 or something like that. I don’t see the problem. That’s 6 Blu’s. Streaming is cheaper.

Amazon? Disney? Also Apple? Do you see my point though? The average person will not have a option of subscribing to the lot.

One of the early points of people on here was the savings. It’s simply not the case.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Amazon? Disney? Also Apple? Do you see my point though? The average person will not have a option of subscribing to the lot.

One of the early points of people on here was the savings. It’s simply not the case.

If $150 is your budget, adding the others, you aren’t buying a bunch of new films or tv releases each month. A handful at most. The other gives you thousands. It’s that persons choice to weigh their options. This isn’t any different. Nothing makes you subscribe monthly to any of these either. Want to watch the YouTube series, pay for a month and cancel. For $10 you got a full show and access to some others and perks for 30 days. Want to watch Stranger Things? Spend $10 and watch both seasons. Nothing requires you to always pay for it. Stuff like Acorn and BritBox are just $4.99.

Gaming has been dealing with this for decades. Nothing going on here is new. You want X game you have to have X platform as it doesn’t work on Y and Z. You also have to add in gaming account subs.

I fully get your issue with the costs, but no one has to have access to everything and to get pretty close to it it comes with a price. Buy what you can, pay as you go or stream monthly. The options are there, shouldn’t break people if they prioritize their purchases like they do with other things.