The Official Formula One Thread

[Mavrick]

Indeed, it was an absolutely amazing race. I still don't think Seb is that great of a driver unless he's on the front row. I've always said that about him.

And yet again Webber messes up his start! It's such a disapointment seeing him work so hard to get pole only to ruin it come race day

Perfect race by Hamilton though. And only 7 days to go til Hungry

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

Indeed, it was an absolutely amazing race. I still don't think Seb is that great of a driver unless he's on the front row. I've always said that about him.

And yet again Webber messes up his start! It's such a disapointment seeing him work so hard to get pole only to ruin it come race day

Perfect race by Hamilton though. And only 7 days to go til Hungry

Nobody else seems to win when on pole but Seb so the critiscism is not deserved. What about all those behind when Vettel is on pole not winning either? Not so easy then is it? Vettel recovered nicely and made some key passes to finish fourth. Where was Button before his retirment? When did fourth become so bad? Webber didn't get it done against Alonso and Hamilton either.

That really was a perfect race by Hamilton though. Everytime he needed to kick it up a notch and separate himself from his rivals, he did so with ease.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Nobody else seems to win when on pole but Seb so the critiscism is not deserved. What about all those behind when Vettel is on pole not winning either? Not so easy then is it? Vettel recovered nicely and made some key passes to finish fourth. Where was Button before his retirment? When did fourth become so bad? Webber didn't get it done against Alonso and Hamilton either.

That really was a perfect race by Hamilton though. Everytime he needed to kick it up a notch and separate himself from his rivals, he did so with ease.

It's not the position he finished but the way he performs when he's not leading a race. It seems whenever he's under preassure he always seems to crack. Today for example he made a lot of mistakes that he would never usually make when he's leading the race. And when it came to overtaking Massa he couldn't make it stick, if it wern't for his pit crew he would have been stuck in 5th.

He's never really been that great of an overtaker ever since he started at Tora Rosso. He is a fast driver even before he got his seat at Tora Rosso he was setting fastest lap times as BMW Sauber's 3rd driver. But when it comes to fighting his way through the field he still has a lot to prove.

[Trace17]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

Indeed, it was an absolutely amazing race. I still don't think Seb is that great of a driver unless he's on the front row. I've always said that about him.

And yet again Webber messes up his start! It's such a disapointment seeing him work so hard to get pole only to ruin it come race day

Perfect race by Hamilton though. And only 7 days to go til Hungry

Most people actually expect Webber to choke on the starts nowadays. He does it too often. But in the end, staying out on aging softs killed him. Agreed about Seb though.

Originally Posted by Hatter

Nobody else seems to win when on pole but Seb so the critiscism is not deserved. What about all those behind when Vettel is on pole not winning either? Not so easy then is it? Vettel recovered nicely and made some key passes to finish fourth. Where was Button before his retirment? When did fourth become so bad? Webber didn't get it done against Alonso and Hamilton either.

That really was a perfect race by Hamilton though. Everytime he needed to kick it up a notch and separate himself from his rivals, he did so with ease.

Bold - well mate, nobody else has been on pole THIS YEAR besides Mark & Seb, and Mark sucks at starts. But Alonso, Hamilton, Button, etc. all have their fair share of pole-wins. But they don't rely on pole to win. Or even front row. The criticism is CLEARLY deserved. Seb is an EXCELLENT driver. But not an excellent racer. His overtakes today, while more than, well, maybe this entire season, were nothing a German shouldn't be capable of doing. However, the important aspect to note is that he couldn't pass Massa. That says a lot. He had to rely on his pit crew to overtake him. Yes, yes, it counts in the positions, but come on. Seb was passing backmarkers and the occasional good driver (did he ever overtake a Mercedes? can't remember) but he couldn't overtake a Ferrari or McLaren. IMO, he just doesn't have the skill in racing trim. He's great doing hot laps though.

Button has had car issues all weekend. I'm sure that affected his outlook and approach in the race. He was making a decent run when the hydraulics went out, and imo, if they were watching the hydraulics data that close and said come in, they probably knew it was going to be iffy or was doomed from the start. Just sayin'.

[Trace17]

From twitter:

LeeMcKenzieF1
Buemi gets 5 place grid drop at Hungary for causing a collision with Heidfeld

Only saw the accident once, but it looked like he deserved it, just shoved Nick off the track. Bad weekend for Buemi between that and starting last with the fuel inconsistency.

Still overwhelmed on what a great race that was. Will have to watch again soon.

And how about Sutil?! Great finish for him.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Trace17

Most people actually expect Webber to choke on the starts nowadays. He does it too often. But in the end, staying out on aging softs killed him. Agreed about Seb though.



Bold - well mate, nobody else has been on pole THIS YEAR besides Mark & Seb, and Mark sucks at starts. But Alonso, Hamilton, Button, etc. all have their fair share of pole-wins. But they don't rely on pole to win. Or even front row. The criticism is CLEARLY deserved. Seb is an EXCELLENT driver. But not an excellent racer. His overtakes today, while more than, well, maybe this entire season, were nothing a German shouldn't be capable of doing. However, the important aspect to note is that he couldn't pass Massa. That says a lot. He had to rely on his pit crew to overtake him. Yes, yes, it counts in the positions, but come on. Seb was passing backmarkers and the occasional good driver (did he ever overtake a Mercedes? can't remember) but he couldn't overtake a Ferrari or McLaren. IMO, he just doesn't have the skill in racing trim. He's great doing hot laps though.

Button has had car issues all weekend. I'm sure that affected his outlook and approach in the race. He was making a decent run when the hydraulics went out, and imo, if they were watching the hydraulics data that close and said come in, they probably knew it was going to be iffy or was doomed from the start. Just sayin'.

Is Hamilton an excellent racer? At times he is and other times he's a lunatic. Alonso never seems concerned with needing to pass cars either. Same with Button.

Doesn't have the racing trim huh? Who nearly cost Hamilton his title? It was non other than Vettel in a Toro Rosso. Where was Hamilton's racing desire then? Hamilton can be just as moody in traffic. Vettel still gets overly critiscized because of last year's pack running blunders. He hasn't made any of those mistakes this year.

Hamilton, Webber and Schumacher are more racy than Vettel but that doesn't mean Vettel is some cream puff or that it's all you need to be sucessful. Tell Webber and others to get more poles or front row starts if they are tired of playing catch up.

But Hamilton did start second. Not exactly work my way through the field conditions. He won on hot laps today.

[Mavrick]

Lewis Hamiltons attitude has always been to go for the gap, take the risk. And it's clear where he gets it from.

By being a racing driver you are under risk all the time. By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, competing to win. And the main motivation is to compete for victory, it's not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it's possible. Sometimes you get it wrong? Sure, it's impossible to get it right all the time. But I race designed to win, as long as I feel I'm doing it right.

Ayrton Senna

I don't dislike Seb, I find him quite likeable. I just don't think he's that great of an overtaker.

[Trace17]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Is Hamilton an excellent racer? At times he is and other times he's a lunatic. Alonso never seems concerned with needing to pass cars either. Same with Button.

Part of being a good racer is being a lunatic. Some would say the same about Schumi and Senna. For the record, I'm not comparing Hamilton to them, but he has the same ballsy attitude.

Don't know where you get Alonso not wanting to pass cars? He's done more than Seb. I'm no Alonso fan, but a lot of his inability to overtake comes from the car.

As to Button, yeah. He's like Mark. Nice guy. Doesn't seem to push the issue a lot, at least anymore. But if he can, he'll try. Not like Lewis, but he will.

Doesn't have the racing trim huh? Who nearly cost Hamilton his title? It was non other than Vettel in a Toro Rosso. Where was Hamilton's racing desire then? Hamilton can be just as moody in traffic. Vettel still gets overly critiscized because of last year's pack running blunders. He hasn't made any of those mistakes this year.

Okay, desire changes. Has a lot to do with the car too. Look at Button a few years back. Won 6 of 7, or something like that. Then never won again for the rest of the season. They didn't have any money improve the car and everyone else got better. Yeah, the car.

Things to consider with that: Seb was a lot more ballsy driver in the STR days. He wasn't given the fastest car on track, had to work for position AND was fighting for a seat, trying to prove that he deserved to stay in Formula 1 and/or move up in F1. Now, Seb hasn't made those mistakes because he's been out front, thanks to a ridiculously fast car by Adrian and a supreme skill of throwing down fast lap times in fresh air. That's not a bad thing, but it does NOT counter the argument against his overtaking ability, since he hasn't been able to. He doesn't have to fight for a seat right now, and doesn't have to prove he belongs in F1. However, today was evidence for the "lack of overtaking skill" argument. He couldn't get anything done.

Hamilton, Webber and Shcuacher are more racy than Vettel but that doesn't mean Vettel is some cream puff or that it's all you need to be sucessful. Tell Webber and others to get more poles or front row starts if they are tired of playing catch up.

But Hamilton did start second. Not exactly work my way through the field conditions. He won on hot laps today.

To the bold - you'd be surprised how many Seb fans argue that all he does need to do to be successful is pole-win, rinse, repeat. While it is theoretically true with a ridiculously fast car, if McLaren & Ferrari catch up, it's not.

Oh and just let me phone Mark real quick and tell him what you said?

Do you honestly think Seb could move up, say, 18 positions in a race? Mark went from P18 to P3, Button (admittedly, in rain, but still) went from dead last to first. This is simply NOT something we have seen Seb capable of doing with RBR. Button has a few wins from as low as 5th place. Hamilton has 3rds and 4ths. 75% of Seb's wins are from pole, all the rest sans 1 are from 2nd.

You can argue this all day, but in the end I won't acknowledge he's a great racer and better than Mark/Jenson/Lewis/Fernando until I see it happen, on track. You're probably a Seb fan, and if so it's probably a bit hard to understand with bias. To me, Seb is the best driver in the field, no question about that. But not the best racer. I would throw that between Fernando and Lewis, maybe Schumi if was in a better car, but probably not.

[Hatter]

I am a Seb fan (duh, no surprise there) but Seb doesn't get enough credit. I just find too many ignore his skill when he wins/holds off with bad tires or no kers but as soon as he doesn't win and wasn't on pole, it's back to see, he can't win/ He better shack up with Newey for the rest of his career. He's not an elite passer or anything, but he's more than competent. He just doesn't have to do it as often. I of course want and expect him to improve his all around game as he gains more and more experience. He's much better than last year.

I see now that your not on that extreme of knocking Seb but it didn't seem that way with your earlier posts. Passing Massa is a nightmare for any driver. Pass a defending lunatic safely on a slamdunk pass oppurtunity or bide your time like Button or Prost (not that he's on Prost's level).

[Mavrick]

• Youngest Formula One driver to drive at a Grand Prix meeting, at 19 years and 53 days.
  
• Youngest driver to score championship points.
  
• Youngest driver to score a Double. (pole & win in same race)
  
• Youngest Driver to score a Triple. (pole, win & fastest lap in same race)
  
• Youngest driver to score a Podium finish.
  
• Youngest driver to lead a race.
  
• Youngest Formula One driver to secure pole position.
  
• Youngest race winner by nearly a year.
  
• First and only driver to win a race, secure pole position, and reach the podium in the history of the Toro Rosso team.
  
• Youngest ever championship runner-up.
  
• Achieved Red Bull's first pole position and race win in the team's history.
  
• Youngest driver ever to win the World Drivers' Championship.
  
• Youngest Grand Prix driver to win at the same track on two occasions.

No one can take that away from him. It's an impressive list of achievements. Oh, and lets not forget the most important achievement of all... Fastest F1 driver around the Top Gear Test Track

[Trace17]

Here's some cool and funny pics from twitter:

Teams setting up in Hungary. Freaking crowded.



And HRT decided nobody needed start/finish lights:

[Trace17]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/9550930.stm

The BBC and Sky Sports will broadcast Formula 1 in the UK between 2012 and 2018 under a new rights deal.
The BBC has been the exclusive broadcaster of F1 in the UK since 2009 but its contract with Formula One Management was due to expire after the 2013 season.

Sky Sports will show every race, qualifying session and practice live.
BBC Sport will broadcast half the races live, as well as the qualifying and practice sessions from those races.

Both companies will broadcast in High Definition.
The BBC will have highlights on TV and mobile for any race it it is not showing live, and all races will be broadcast on BBC Radio 5 Live.

Barbara Slater, director of BBC Sport, said: "We are absolutely delighted that F1 will remain on the BBC.
"The sport has never been more popular with TV audiences at a 10-year high and the BBC has always stated its commitment to the big national sporting moments.

"With this new deal not only have we delivered significant savings but we have also ensured that through our live and extended highlights coverage all the action continues to be available to licence fee payers."
Races shown live on BBC TV will include the British Grand Prix at Silverstone, the Monaco GP and the concluding race of the season.

Barney Francis, Managing Director of Sky Sports, said: "This is fantastic news for F1 fans and Sky Sports will be the only place to follow every race live and in HD.

"We will give F1 the full Sky Sports treatment with a commitment to each race never seen before on UK television."

From what I understand, this is pretty devastating to people in the UK. Half the races will now be on pay cable and won't be free, possibly with commercials unlike BBC, and unsure about commentators who could be worse. Sucks for you guys that this happened, I bet it stems from BBC budget cuts, F1 is pretty expensive.

I always loved going back and watching BBC pre-shows from races and qualifying, usually a good mix of entertainment and informative stuff. DC and Brundle do good commentary too for the races, imo.

Funny, it's kinda the opposite in the US. Since the time zones for live races suck, most people want them live on pay cable on Speed and don't want them replayed on FOX (to which I agree, not to mention Fox puts in more commercials). But I hear that the FOX/Speed agreement ends this year and Speed wants all non-NA races to air live and FOX will still get the US and Canada races live. Hopefully that happens, but it's a bit optimistic and FOX may not be happy with only two races.

If there's any upside to this, I would think it would be the production staff getting more time off to spend with families and not running almost a 8 month job away from home with the occasional visit back home on long breaks between races. May or may not be accompanied with a pay decrease too though.

Thoughts from across the pond?

[partridge]

Sky have assured viewers that there will be no ads, but to get Sky's coverage will cost about £30 per month (to get it in HD which we currently get for free) so that's over £300 ($490) a year to continue to watch a sport I've enjoyed for 20 years as free to air. I can't really see me paying that!

Bizarrely Sky and the BBC will both show the same tv coverage for the races they both show, but could be using different commentators and presenters?

This news is devastating for British F1 fans; those that don't have Sky and/or don't want to pay for Sky will now miss half the season and be forced to watch highlights of those races, which frankly no sports fan wants to do - ignoring the news all day so you don't get the result spoilt, then only seeing part of the action is not what we want.

As far as I can make out Bernie was unwilling to lower the fee for the BBC to get exclusive rights, so Sky jumped in with their massive budget and scooped up the lot. What I don't understand is F1 is supposed to be free to air, it's in the Concorde agreement with the teams to ensure the sponsors get the best coverage and biggest audience for their brands; it's why they pay so much to be on the car. The teams have yet to formally react but I'm sure they will want to know how this affects sponsorship deals that have been done on the basis of free to air broadcasting.

F1 has achieved record breaking audience figures over the last couple of years, some of that will be down to casual viewers tuning in on a Sunday afternoon. They are not going to pay for Sky's coverage so this will impact the audience for the sport in a big way.

And sadly that's what leads me to believe that this is not in any way about improving the spectacle of F1 for the fans, it's about maximising profits for Bernie's F1 company. I fully expect him, now the deal is done, to sell up and walk away.

The BBC are putting on a brave face about it, but they must be gutted to have lost full season broadcast rights. For God's sake they won an award for their coverage last year!

I won't be paying Sky, so I now have to see how I feel about following a sport I can no longer watch in full.

I worry that just as F1 has reached a peak with it's audience it will now become a marginalised sport (as many others have become after Sky bought them up) and will slowly die a death in the UK.

The team at the BBC do a fantastic job and they appear to be none the wiser either, Martin Brundle tweeted that he was not impressed.

So many details yet to be disclosed, but F1 has taken a massive hit today and I fear it will never recover until it hopefully one day returns to fully free to air coverage.

A win-win for Sky and Bernie, a massive no-win for British F1 fans.

[Mavrick]

This new actullay has me feeling completely gutted! How they can say this is great news for evey F1 fan is crazy! I really would like to see the diffrence in viewing figures between the Races on Live on BBC and on Sky Sports.

Why Sky Sports? Why not split it between ITV and BBC? I really am lost for words and extremely angry at this news. Sky is the single biggest rip off in the entire country, and is more of a Monopoly than anything else. Just look at how the paid for chanels on sky usually take the best shows to come from america.

The ones that stick out off he top of my head are Lost. Season 1 and 2 were free to all on C4. Then because it got huge ratings Sky flashed the cash and stole the rights from C4 who had no choice but to give it up. The other one is Glee, now I'm no fan of glee but still. E4 had the first two series, estableshed a huge audiance and then sky swoop in with there big bucks and steal the show for Sky 1!

Well they can get ****ed!

I'll be illegaly downloading every single race thats shown on Sky.

[partridge]

It's what Sky do best; sit back and watch the terrestrial channels, when they see something big, they pay over the top to ensure it's exclusive to them.

I'll calm down eventually but right now I'm wondering whether to just give up on F1 at the end of this season. I can't afford Sky and I can't see the point of following half a season of it either.

The teams have to approve it though, so this isn't over yet. If they and their sponsors are unhappy about the impact the drop in viewers will have then it could get kicked back to Bernie to re-think. But sadly I can't see that happening, Bernie knows how to get round the teams, especially the smaller ones and if those teams get more tv money from it being on Sky they won't care about the fans missing out. I would love to see all the teams united on this one, given that many F1 teams are based in the UK, but money talks and Bernie and Sky have a lot of money.

I almost wish the BBC had dropped it completely, then it would be easy to just ignore F1 and let it fall into tv obscurity like boxing has. To me it's like reading a book with half the chapters missing and just reading a one paragraph summary instead, I mean, what's the point, you want the whole thing, not a scattering of bits and pieces.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by partridge

It's what Sky do best; sit back and watch the terrestrial channels, when they see something big, they pay over the top to ensure it's exclusive to them.

I'll calm down eventually but right now I'm wondering whether to just give up on F1 at the end of this season. I can't afford Sky and I can't see the point of following half a season of it either.

The teams have to approve it though, so this isn't over yet. If they and their sponsors are unhappy about the impact the drop in viewers will have then it could get kicked back to Bernie to re-think. But sadly I can't see that happening, Bernie knows how to get round the teams, especially the smaller ones and if those teams get more tv money from it being on Sky they won't care about the fans missing out. I would love to see all the teams united on this one, given that many F1 teams are based in the UK, but money talks and Bernie and Sky have a lot of money.

I almost wish the BBC had dropped it completely, then it would be easy to just ignore F1 and let it fall into tv obscurity like boxing has. To me it's like reading a book with half the chapters missing and just reading a one paragraph summary instead, I mean, what's the point, you want the whole thing, not a scattering of bits and pieces.

I honestly can't wait to see how the viewing figures compare. I can't see sky getting higher figures, and how exactly would broadcasting on Sky creat a bigger audiance when EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE UK HAS BBC!!!!! This is all about the money plain and simple. And when stupid things like this happen I protest by heading over to Torrents, and getting thingss the free way.

[Mavrick]

Right. To get Sky in HD you need to choose at LEAST 1 variety pack. That includes sky1 sky atlantic etc etc and a load of other crap I wont watch...

Cost: £19.50.

Sky Sports.

Cost: £20.25

Sky HD

Cost: £10.25

Total cost: £50 per month.

When all I want is to see my favourite sport, which I have been watching on free to air tv since I was knee high. I remember sitting with my grandad every weekend there was a race on and we would watch it together.

[partridge]

Yep, you're right, I visited the site too; it is indeed £50 to continue to watch F1. That is a complete no-go for me.

I'll see how I feel in the New Year, but if I can't watch the whole thing I don't think I'll bother at all. But I'll be sure to write to the BBC, Sky and F1 to point that out.

This will cost them massively in viewing numbers and damage F1 in the UK, but that's clearly not a concern for Sky and Bernie.

It wouldn't be so bad if I was interested in anything else Sky broadcast, but I'm not. I have freesat and that's fine for me, so to expect any non Sky viewer to sign up just for F1 at fifty quid a month is utter lunacy.

[Mavrick]

Or you could go with Virgin.

There basic TV pack including 6HD chanels is £12.50 then you can add Sky Sports1 for £14.50 and upgrade it to Sky Sports 1 HD for an extra £7 a month.

£34 a month vs Sky £50 a month.

Really can't justify it....

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by partridge

Yep, you're right, I visited the site too; it is indeed £50 to continue to watch F1. That is a complete no-go for me.

I'll see how I feel in the New Year, but if I can't watch the whole thing I don't think I'll bother at all. But I'll be sure to write to the BBC, Sky and F1 to point that out.

This will cost them massively in viewing numbers, but that's clearly not a concern for Sky and Bernie.

Indeed. I feel the same way you do. I hated it when I would miss a live race due to work comitments. And meant I'd have to try and avoid finding out who won until I could get back home and put iPlayer on. I don't think I could put up with that for a whole season.

The other option I looked at was going halfs with my friend, but we both have seperate rooms which would mean another £10.25 a month!

£60 a month! Just to see my favourite sport. It's not right, yes the coverage will be unparalled. But this is Sky, they have the money to go all out on production costs. But what about the commentators?

Will we have the same commentry for the broadcast? And just different presenters for the pre and post race parts of the broadcast?

This whole thing stinks.