Indiana Jones 2 and 4: why the drop in quality?

[UniSol GR77]

Indiana & the Temple of Doom:

No plot, no good dialogues, but iconic last parts.
Especially the bridge sequence, it's a legendary scene.... impressive.
But the movie is so childish. No plot, no story, I don't like the dialogues at all and Indy looks VERY out of character.
The humour is so cliché and overdone in this, especially Kate's. Tons of scenes where she is afraid of wild animals and insects. Jesus...
Most of the action in the titular temple is a bit weak and tired. Children fighting skilled warriors... oh God.
But I love this regardless, it's an iconic and fun movie. Still, it's vastly inferior to Part 1 and 3. Vastly.

Indiana & the Crystal Skull:

Just a terrible mess from start to finish. Still fun and enjoyable, but this movie makes look TEMPLE like 'The Dark Knight' or 'Citizen Kane'.

What was Spielberg thinking???

[JamesBenjamin]

I think you're going to find that people rank 2 the best, followed by 1, then 3, then 4.

Honestly, the main problem with 4 is that they left Christian mythology behind and did aliens. That and the fridge bit. If they had left out the fridge bit and had him looking for the fountain of youth instead, it would have worked much better. So to answer your questions: script issues.

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by JamesBenjamin

I think you're going to find that people rank 2 the best, followed by 1, then 3, then 4.

.

Really? In America? Jesus...

[Chloenator]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

Really? In America? Jesus...

Yes, I'm from America and I like part 2 the best. I would rank them like this: 2, 1, 3, 4

[UniSol GR77]

My rank is: 1, 3, 2............ and 4.

[Nada]

Raiders/Temple
Crystal Skull
Last Crusade

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

My rank is: 1, 3, 2............ and 4.

That's my ranking too, but I still don't think ToD's drop in quality is that bad. Sure, there are some goofy childish scenes in it, Short Round and Willie can get annoying, but everything else is top-notch.

And yes, it has a plot - it's the same serial-inspired series of events that lands Indy into a quest to find the Shankara stones, and in turn, it's a journey into "Hell" in which Indy comes out with a little more respect for the ancient legends he winds up getting involved with. Just like with the Lost Ark and the Holy Grail and everything else. All of these stories are about Indy contending with the supernatural, but ToD in particular is the one in which he faces some very dark things, and he even becomes evil for a while.

As far as KOTSC goes, I found it enjoyable, but I can see why people would hate it.

[crow2k5]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

Really? In America? Jesus...

Yep, Ilove Temple of Doom the best, followed by 1, 3 & 4 is way last.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by JamesBenjamin

I think you're going to find that people rank 2 the best, followed by 1, then 3, then 4.

Honestly, the main problem with 4 is that they left Christian mythology behind and did aliens. That and the fridge bit. If they had left out the fridge bit and had him looking for the fountain of youth instead, it would have worked much better. So to answer your questions: script issues.

i think 2 was just on ALL THE TIME in the 90s so we've seen it the most and maybe that's why someone would lean that way. It does have the best climax IMO. but 1 and 3 are definitely better movies

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by JamesBenjamin

I think you're going to find that people rank 2 the best, followed by 1, then 3, then 4.

Yup!

[klauswhereareyou]

I didn't like how in Last Crusade Marcus Brody became comic relief. Did he develop dementia in the two years between Raiders and Last Crusade?

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

What truly amazes me is the almost undeniable fact TEMPLE has no plot or story behind. It's just a huge videogame on film. RAIDERS and LAST CRUSADE have plots. Fascinating plots. You cannot like the movies, but you can't deny they got plots.

I love the movie, but I think it's inferior to Part 1 and 3. I also feel Indy is very out of character.

TOD was a prequel and I think the idea was that Indy was a fortune hunter, more interested in "fortune and glory" and after his experiences in this adventure, he underwent a philosophical change.

And as for KOTCS, the problem wasn't aliens... it was intra-dimensional beings.

[Kevin Holly]

Originally Posted by Michael24

Which is perfectly understandable considering that Indy is actually human and not a superhero with self-healing abilities or a robot or other ageless-type character. Plus, it's not like he was a decrepit old man with a cane or something.

Yes, but any reference at all to characters aging is almost automatically irritating and detracts from the main movie. Look at the reason spate of action films playing up the geriatric angle. The ones that don't are far more enjoyable. Look at Escape Plan, or Sabotage - they star "old men" but age is not mentioned once in those films, and they look good enough that it's not even awkward or odd. Harrison looked good enough in 4 that they could not have wasted one line of dialogue making an age joke.

Originally Posted by Michael24

Which is somehow too much after movies with magic rocks and cups that grant eternal life.

Well yeah. There's a huge distinction between artifacts and aliens.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

I didn't like how in Last Crusade Marcus Brody became comic relief. Did he develop dementia in the two years between Raiders and Last Crusade?

Yeah, but he's really funny in it.

Besides, I think it's the idea of a historian out of his depth in the field.

He's an intelligent scholar like Indy but not an adventurer like Indy.

And did I mention he was funny?

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by JamesBenjamin

I think you're going to find that people rank 2 the best, followed by 1, then 3, then 4.

Honestly, the main problem with 4 is that they left Christian mythology behind and did aliens. That and the fridge bit. If they had left out the fridge bit and had him looking for the fountain of youth instead, it would have worked much better. So to answer your questions: script issues.

Once you find the ark and the grail there really is no place left to go with Christian mythology aside from the original plaques showing the 10 commandments. What they really should have done instead of the City of gold would have been Atlantis, they did tie the gold and christian thing into 4 somewhat as that's what Francisco de Orellana was actually after when he mapped the Amazon River

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

Indiana & the Temple of Doom:

No plot, no good dialogues, but iconic last parts.
Especially the bridge sequence, it's a legendary scene.... impressive.
But the movie is so childish. No plot, no story, I don't like the dialogues at all and Indy looks VERY out of character.
The humour is so cliché and overdone in this, especially Kate's. Tons of scenes where she is afraid of wild animals and insects. Jesus...
Most of the action in the titular temple is a bit weak and tired. Children fighting skilled warriors... oh God.
But I love this regardless, it's an iconic and fun movie. Still, it's vastly inferior to Part 1 and 3. Vastly.

Couldn't POSSIBLY disagree more. Last Crusade turns Indiana Jones from the rough-edged, Bogart-tinged rugged survivor willing to do almost anything, even kill, to obtain the Ark or save the stolen children and the Sankara Stones...into a boy scout. Literally. Marcus is turned into a clueless idiot, Sallah into a bumbling Egyptian stereotype and when he's not rounding up camels he's saying things like, "Indy! Your father is trapped in the belly of that steel beast!" The best digger in Cairo can't say the word, "tank"? The screenplay is cheap, a structural copy of Raiders, and goes for easy laughs, Spielberg looks like he's on autopilot.

Temple of Doom is glorious. Spielberg is on fire with masterful choreography and energy, from beginning to end. Characters pop off the screen, John Williams delivers one of his best scores, the film has drive and unique action set pieces and is unlike anything I've seen before or since.

Indiana & the Crystal Skull:

What was Spielberg thinking???

"Maybe now George will shut up about this movie." ???

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Temple of Doom is glorious. Spielberg is on fire with masterful choreography and energy, from beginning to end. Characters pop off the screen, John Williams delivers one of his best scores, the film has drive and unique action set pieces and is unlike anything I've seen before or since.

I can only say cinematography is wonderful and direction delivers the best. Some of the action in the cave feels tired and clumsy. Said that, I respectfully disagree about the story, the plot and the character development.

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by tigermoth

I only like Raiders myself. The only one I revisit every now and then.

Agreed. The rest are pretty bad.

[Nada]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Couldn't POSSIBLY disagree more. Last Crusade turns Indiana Jones from the rough-edged, Bogart-tinged rugged survivor willing to do almost anything, even kill, to obtain the Ark or save the stolen children and the Sankara Stones...into a boy scout. Literally. Marcus is turned into a clueless idiot, Sallah into a bumbling Egyptian stereotype and when he's not rounding up camels he's saying things like, "Indy! Your father is trapped in the belly of that steel beast!" The best digger in Cairo can't say the word, "tank"? The screenplay is cheap, a structural copy of Raiders, and goes for easy laughs, Spielberg looks like he's on autopilot.

Temple of Doom is glorious. Spielberg is on fire with masterful choreography and energy, from beginning to end. Characters pop off the screen, John Williams delivers one of his best scores, the film has drive and unique action set pieces and is unlike anything I've seen before or since.

A-f**king-men!

Last Crusade is by far the least of all four films. The saving grace is the Connery/Ford chemistry, the tank battle, and the Nazi henchmen. It's too cookie-cutter compared to the first two. Crystal Skull is massively underrated. Such a fun film in every capacity.

[Doctor Jack]

Temple of Doom is ridiculously good. You can judge if someone has good or bad taste by whether they like it or not.