Still not convinced

[Adam_ME]

Originally Posted by Pizzamorg

I'm still confused about what 4K actually does. The 4K champions claim it's an even greater upgrade than when you moved from DVD to BD but then when people explain what 4K really does, they seem to suggest it just improves the colour and does nothing else? Maybe this is the whole problem but... what? I don't get why that is such a big deal. I've never looked at a BD and found myself complaining about the colours themselves, sometimes a director stylises a scene with certain colours that I may not personally enjoy but 4K isn't going to "fix" that, right?

4K alone improves the resolution and sharpness of the image. For the record, I don't think it's as big of an upgrade from 1080p as Blu-ray was from DVD(at least not so far). It's HDR though that really makes the colors pop on top of the extra resolution. It's one of those things you have to see to really appreciate.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Adam_ME

4K alone improves the resolution and sharpness of the image. For the record, I don't think it's as big of an upgrade from 1080p as Blu-ray was from DVD(at least not so far). It's HDR though that really makes the colors pop on top of the extra resolution. It's one of those things you have to see to really appreciate.

Right now perhaps it's not as big an upgrade but I don't think we've seen the full potential yet (of HDR particularly). DVD wasn't perceived to be that huge an upgrade when it was first released either, but when TVs got better and you had progressive scan and better encodes than the difference gradually became what we consider it today. Funny though with Blu-ray that really hasn't been the case, looking only marginally better than it did at launch (not taking into account the bad discs that accompanied the launch). Since the format had mostly the same specs as DVD (other than resolution), there was not much room for improvement.

[Adam_ME]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Right now perhaps it's not as big an upgrade but I don't think we've seen the full potential yet (of HDR particularly). DVD wasn't perceived to be that huge an upgrade when it was first released either, but when TVs got better and you had progressive scan and better encodes than the difference gradually became what we consider it today. Funny though with Blu-ray that really hasn't been the case, looking only marginally better than it did at launch (not taking into account the bad discs that accompanied the launch). Since the format had mostly the same specs as DVD (other than resolution), there was not much room for improvement.

When you consider a lot of the early titles aren't even real 4K and still look this good, plus Samsung's first gen player has relatively few glitches or limitations(most of them are with the apps), I'm geeked about this format.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Adam_ME

When you consider a lot of the early titles aren't even real 4K and still look this good, plus Samsung's first gen player has relatively few glitches or limitations(most of them are with the apps), I'm geeked about this format.

HUGE difference between this Samsung and the $1000 launch player in 2006. It looks cheap but looks are deceiving. I think they hit it out of the park.

[Rocklandsboy]

Originally Posted by Adam_ME

4K alone improves the resolution and sharpness of the image. For the record, I don't think it's as big of an upgrade from 1080p as Blu-ray was from DVD(at least not so far). It's HDR though that really makes the colors pop on top of the extra resolution. It's one of those things you have to see to really appreciate.

The constant reference to "popping colours' amuses me slightly. Colours don't "pop" in real life. Nor do they really "pop" in cinemas. They pop right off the screen if I turn contrast right up. But a more gentle, lifelike colour pallette is more acceptable, surely.

Everyone remember when blu-ray "popped". Ah.. 2015... the memories.

[Pizzamorg]

So is the resolution noticeably increased? Because some say yes, others say no. Or is it more a question of whether you're blowing it onto a 1000 inch projector screen compared to a 40 inch 4K TV?

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Pizzamorg

So is the resolution noticeably increased? Because some say yes, others say no. Or is it more a question of whether you're blowing it onto a 1000 inch projector screen compared to a 40 inch 4K TV?

It varies movie to movie. Some movies have a slight increase while others have a big increase. It also fluctuates during the movie too. Overall it's very promising and still better than regular blu ray.

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Pizzamorg

So is the resolution noticeably increased? Because some say yes, others say no. Or is it more a question of whether you're blowing it onto a 1000 inch projector screen compared to a 40 inch 4K TV?

You should do some research.
Here are some links to start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution

http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/4k-ul...aling-compared

http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinio...ou-should-care

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/tel...-4k-tv-1048954

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...oney/index.htm

After all that you may have more specific questions which can be addressed.

[jibucha]

thank you

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

The constant reference to "popping colours' amuses me slightly. Colours don't "pop" in real life. Nor do they really "pop" in cinemas. They pop right off the screen if I turn contrast right up. But a more gentle, lifelike colour pallette is more acceptable, surely.

Everyone remember when blu-ray "popped". Ah.. 2015... the memories.

[MartinScorsesefan]

I'm watching UHD on an Epson 5030 1080p pj, and I think the picture quality is beautiful. Granted, I only have two releases so far-Exodus and ASM2-but they look great. Neither one is a very good movie, but the eye candy is for real. I can only imagine how these look on a true 4K setup. I'm jazzed about the format, but not so much that I'll buy every new release(like I did with HD DVD and BD in the beginning). But I'm definitely looking forward to what is to come.

[reanimator]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

The constant reference to "popping colours' amuses me slightly.

Then really you're just taking exception with a figure-of-speech. If you want it in more scientific terms, regular blu ray uses the rec709 color space -- standard blu ray is color deficient. UHD-BD corrects this weakness by using the DCI-P3 color space. The improvement over standard blu ray is undeniable.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by reanimator

Then really you're just taking exception with a figure-of-speech. If you want it in more scientific terms, regular blu ray uses the rec709 color space -- standard blu ray is color deficient. UHD-BD corrects this weakness by using the DCI-P3 color space. The improvement over standard blu ray is undeniable.

If you were right, they wouldn't need to re-grade movies in HDR to make the difference obvious, they would just use the same SDR master with DCI-P3 color space like in movie theaters...

Yes DCI-P3 has more colors but that difference alone is not that big... Studios feel the need to apply HDR to create a bigger gap....

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

If you were right, they wouldn't need to re-grade movies in HDR to make the difference obvious, they would just use the same SDR master with DCI-P3 color space like in movie theaters...

Yes DCI-P3 has more colors but that difference alone is not that big... Studios feel the need to apply HDR to create a bigger gap....

Exactly. For non-HDR movies (99.999999999999% of movies), the 2020 colorspace that UHD enables is the appropriate improvement over 709 on Blu-ray. HDR is a separate change that is only appropriate for HDR movies, but is being inappropriately applied to non-HDR movies as well.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Exactly. For non-HDR movies (99.999999999999% of movies), the 2020 colorspace that UHD enables is the appropriate improvement over 709 on Blu-ray. HDR is a separate change that is only appropriate for HDR movies, but is being inappropriately applied to non-HDR movies as well.

One might even argue, that as long as DCI specs don't support HDR, no movie is actually meant to be seen in HDR....

But Dolby Cinema works outside of the DCI specs, so they were able to use it in their theaters.....

And 2020 colorspace is just the container, there's still DCI-P3 inside.....

[Rocklandsboy]

Good comments. I'd buy into this if it was a pure resolution/colour upgrade. But applying HDR equates to converting every single movie into 3D at the disc mastering stage (turning it into something it was never meant to be) and that is unnacceptable, regardless of how pretty it looks!

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

Good comments. I'd buy into this if it was a pure resolution/colour upgrade. But applying UHD equates to converting every single movie into 3D (turning it into something it was never meant to be) and that is unnacceptable, regardless of how pretty it looks!

I take it you mean HDR and not UHD which is the actual 4k format.
The studios control HDR so it isn't something the player is actively doing like those that can add 3D to a non 3D title.

[Rocklandsboy]

Originally Posted by bootman

I take it you mean HDR and not UHD which is the actual 4k format.
The studios control HDR so it isn't something the player is actively doing like those that can add 3D to a non 3D title.

Oops yes. Corrected. And I didn't mean to suggest the player was doing it, the fact the studio is doing it - retrospectively - is bad enough!

[Yautja_Warrior]

You can definitely see a difference between 1080p and 4k. The bump in resolution is quite nice, maybe not as big a leap as DVD to blu-ray, because 1080p blu-ray still looks great now but 4k still looks better.

If anyone says they can't see a difference, they either need to get their eyes checked or they are just not looking properly. I can say that because my eyesight is not the best, I have to wear glasses all the time, yet I can still clearly see the difference.

Even just watching compressed 4k YouTube videos on my Sony 55X8509C, the picture looks really amazing, with vibrant colours and stunning detail. I cannot wait to see 4k on UHD disc, which should look even better.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

Oops yes. Corrected. And I didn't mean to suggest the player was doing it, the fact the studio is doing it - retrospectively - is bad enough!

It's worse- if the player was doing it, it could presumably be defeated at some point. With these inappropriately applied HDR grades, it's just the wrong information on the disc, period. No change to a player circuit can correct that.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It's worse- if the player was doing it, it could presumably be defeated at some point. With these inappropriately applied HDR grades, it's just the wrong information on the disc, period. No change to a player circuit can correct that.

Is it still inappropriate if the filmmaker approved it? What about director's cuts of a movie, are they inappropriate too? For that matter, what about films or TV shows that were originally conceptualized with standard definition in mind? It is inappropriate to see them at a higher resolution because the CGI will look fake?