Dragon Inn (1967) / A Touch of Zen (1971)

[MifuneFan]

It should be noted the doc is in HD on the Criterion release, and in SD on the Eureka one. I wouldn't call it the Eureka lite version, they just have different offerings. The transfers aren't identical either, the CC is slightly less yellow.

[Cactus]

The entire films suffer from, predominantly, a muted blue. Just pushing the blue a little bit makes it look great. Whatever the film is supposed to look like, whoever signed off on this version, it doesn't look the way I like it. So there. :P

[reason108]

Originally Posted by Cactus

The entire films suffer from, predominantly, a muted blue. Just pushing the blue a little bit makes it look great. Whatever the film is supposed to look like, whoever signed off on this version, it doesn't look the way I like it. So there. :P

Is your half of the shot taken from a dvd release or did you change that using a software program? Everyone has their own tastes but if the cinematographer supervised the transfer then I would hope it would look the way it was intended. Either the monitors he was viewing it on are not set up correctly or maybe he just has some crazy vendetta against King Hu and wanted to get back at him after all these years by messing up the color grading.
Probably anything is possible but who do we trust to deliver to us the correct image?

I need to break out with my Tai Seng disc again to compare.

[Cactus]

It's just a quick Photoshop fix of the screenshots posted here in the thread. Just bringing the blue up about 10-15%. I've done a more detailed correction in Premiere for the whole of Zen, and it needs a little adjustment than this to be perfect, it's apparant that this is a colour cast consistant throughout the film. It might well be a very conscious stylistic choice, but I disagree strongly and think it ruins the films. I've seen it in Ghibli discs too and I am amazed when people don't see it.

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[Killer Meteor]

The OTT yellow is charatarisitic of Ritrovata transfers.

[MifuneFan]

Yep, it is Ritrovata's handiwork. With that said, I think a yellowish tint actually feels right with these classic wuxia films, at least compared to a more natural look. I just think they might have overdone it with the tint. Somewhere in between the ones above would be ideal.

[Opips3]

My copy will arrive couple of weeks and locked 'A' region.
My blu-player do not have modified free region. I can't use on 'B' region.

Look excellent pictures quality!

[Markgway]

Those last two shots look 100x better on Cactus' retouch.

What's the obsession restorers have with colour revisionism and heavy unnatural tints?

[reason108]

Originally Posted by Cactus

It's just a quick Photoshop fix of the screenshots posted here in the thread. Just bringing the blue up about 10-15%. I've done a more detailed correction in Premiere for the whole of Zen, and it needs a little adjustment than this to be perfect, it's apparant that this is a colour cast consistant throughout the film. It might well be a very conscious stylistic choice, but I disagree strongly and think it ruins the films. I've seen it in Ghibli discs too and I am amazed when people don't see it.

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Originally Posted by Killer Meteor

The OTT yellow is charatarisitic of Ritrovata transfers.

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Yep, it is Ritrovata's handiwork. With that said, I think a yellowish tint actually feels right with these classic wuxia films, at least compared to a more natural look. I just think they might have overdone it with the tint. Somewhere in between the ones above would be ideal.

Ok, so, I dug out my old Tai Seng dvd and here is the comparison between it and the Eureka! and Criterion shots! I know that I already posted some of these pics before but will just re-post so everyone can see them all back-to-back. I probably should have done this to begin with but I did not have access to the Tai Seng disc last night when I originally posted the pics!

Also, sorry about the jaggies in the Tai Seng disc. This is just to show color timing, etc. Enjoy!



Tai Seng -
Tai Seng dvd 1.jpg



Eureka! -
Eureka! 5.jpg



Criterion -
Criterion 5.jpg

[reason108]

Tai Seng -
Tai Seng.jpg



Eureka! -
Eureka! 7.jpg



Criterion -
Criterion 7.jpg

[reason108]

Tai Seng -
Tai Seng 3.jpg



Cactus Correction - *
r2TUaid.jpg



Eureka! -
Eureka! 9.jpg



Criterion -
Criterion 9.jpg





(*Thanks to Cactus for posting the photoshop picture. Hope it is ok that I post your shot to compare the different versions. If not I will remove it.)

[reason108]

Tai Seng dvd -
Tai Seng dvd 3.jpg



Cactus -
U3wslMs.jpg



Eureka! -
Eureka! 55.jpg



Criterion -
Criterion 55.jpg

[reason108]

Tai Seng -
Tai Seng 4.jpg



Cactus "Correction" -
M3uzctq.jpg



Eureka! -
Eureka! 10.jpg



Criterion -
Criterion 10.jpg

[Cactus]

Thanks for the Tai Seng caps! They look nice. They also tell me that what I perceive as black crush on the BDs is in fact not bad at all.

[reason108]

Thanks to Cactus for posting his screenshots. I think that some of these remastered shots from Eureka! and Criterion are pretty close to the Tai Seng video. But, some of the shots were way overdone with the "yellow". I certainly prefer the Eureka! release for the extras. But, I may just end up watching the Criterion release since that it can be a little less "yellow" overall (and perhaps a tiny bit brighter too).



The Tai Seng dvd features the 2 part version of ATOZ. One last parting shot of the Bamboo Forest scene that ends Part 1 and opens Part 2.



Tai Seng - Bamboo scene from Part 1 of the movie -
Tai Seng Bamboo 2.jpg




Tai Seng - Bamboo scene that opens Part 2 of the movie -
Part 2 Bamboo 2.jpg



Eureka! Bamboo scene -
Eureka! 2.jpg



Criterion Bamboo scene -
Criterion 2.jpg

[Markgway]

Who here hasn't witnessed the natural splendour of yellow clouds?

[Opips3]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Who here hasn't witnessed the natural splendour of yellow clouds?

Do not have HDR
Look more colors saturation and brightness.

High 4K scanned make yellow tint but not high dyanmic range colors.

Rec. 709 8bit is old dang 25 years technology.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by Opips3

Do not have HDR
Look more colors saturation and brightness.

High 4K scanned make yellow tint but not high dyanmic range colors.

Rec. 709 8bit is old dang 25 years technology.

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything... but I really don't understand your post.

[Opips3]

Originally Posted by Markgway

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything... but I really don't understand your post.

Adjustment color

Go to dictionary

"Color Saturated"

"Brightness"

Yellowish tinted on "A Touch of Zen" scanned 4K film negative. Same as "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" (1966) scanned 4K the picture has a yellow tint.

[Cactus]

Umm, it's not like they just scan a negative and put that on a blu-ray. This is carefully color corrected after the scan to produce this look. If they scan something which is yellowish and they don't want that, they just take it out.