How discernable is 1080p over 1080i ?

[dmwiley]

Shooweee!!! Soembody knows exactly what they are talking about. I'm back from a 7 day hiatus (read ban) after making a favorable comment about you know what, i.e., that other DVD HD format-just as irreverant as ever. Probably be gone again in a few days. But before I go, just want you to know that I own 2 Blu-ray players. However, that does not stop me from wanting to learn about the other unmentionable format-you know the one that will play the HD Matrix Trilogy DVD.

[CptGreedle]

Well wwelcome back but perhaps you should realize one thing befor eyou are banned again.... the forum is called "Blu-ray.com", not "HighDefinitionMediaDiscs.com"... you should try to focus on Blu-ray here.

That being said, I will leave you in peace to do what you like but you should have posted in an "Off Topic" post and not an existing Home Theater 1080p vs 1080i post.

[Grif32]

Originally Posted by sj001

Definitely there is a noticeable difference, but mostly on larger screens, primarily 36" or bigger. I went with a 32" 1080i LCD, and paid $500, that was a few months back, and to get a progressive version would have cost nearly double, I stuck with the 1080i.

32" no way. Maybe 60" and bigger. But the human eye can only see so much. Unless you are a ft away from a 32" tv

There will be ZERO difference between 1080I/P if you TV deinterlaces it properly.

1080P is all hype like someone has posted.

[CptGreedle]

Originally Posted by Grif32

32" no way. Maybe 60" and bigger. But the human eye can only see so much. Unless you are a ft away from a 32" tv

There will be ZERO difference between 1080I/P if you TV deinterlaces it properly.

1080P is all hype like someone has posted.

Not true. The tv can only "make up" so much information, and NO TVs can currently "properly" de-interlace a 1080i signal.
1080p is not about how clear the image is, but about how smooth the action, how unbroken textures and lines are, how clear and consistent patterns are, etc.
If you do not know what to look for, you might not even know the difference. But for videophiles like me, it is as clear as day.

Yes the human eye can only see so much, but did you know that the standard print for a picture is at least 300 dpi (ppi), while computer monitors range from 72 ppi to 96 ppi? This is how much detail is in the image. People can see the difference well beyond what a 1080 screen can produce. Even at 32", I know that you can see a difference, subtle though it might be to some, it would still be there.
The human eye is an amazing thing, and it is astounding how much information is can pick up. Study the way people see, learn about the physical aspects of the eye, and the way the mind uses these signals, as well as the muscle movements and such.
As a professional digital imaging technician, I had to study all these things and more for my degree. But there is a reason I am a videophile. Most probably will not know what to look for, and therefore not be able to tell the difference.

[Grif32]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Not true. The tv can only "make up" so much information, and NO TVs can currently "properly" de-interlace a 1080i signal.
1080p is not about how clear the image is, but about how smooth the action, how unbroken textures and lines are, how clear and consistent patterns are, etc.
If you do not know what to look for, you might not even know the difference. But for videophiles like me, it is as clear as day.

Yes the human eye can only see so much, but did you know that the standard print for a picture is at least 300 dpi (ppi), while computer monitors range from 72 ppi to 96 ppi? This is how much detail is in the image. People can see the difference well beyond what a 1080 screen can produce. Even at 32", I know that you can see a difference, subtle though it might be to some, it would still be there.
The human eye is an amazing thing, and it is astounding how much information is can pick up. Study the way people see, learn about the physical aspects of the eye, and the way the mind uses these signals, as well as the muscle movements and such.
As a professional digital imaging technician, I had to study all these things and more for my degree. But there is a reason I am a videophile. Most probably will not know what to look for, and therefore not be able to tell the difference.

See post #80.. Very good article about it.

[Draagonman]

I am in the process of getting a blu-ray player, my setup now is a 100" screen with component using xbox HD dvd, I am able to play all my movies through the player, HD dvd movies play at 1080i, regular dvd's play at 480p, and gomes and downloaded movies play at 1080p. With the blu-ray player will I be able to play movies that are HDCP at 1080p through the components? Right now my cable to my projector is 50' long. will I need an HDMI cable to accomplish this? monoprice has a 50 ft HDMI cable but it is not version 1.3 do I need version 1.3 cable?

[CptGreedle]

Component cables can not handle 1080p. You need an HDMI cable.

[Draagonman]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Component cables can not handle 1080p. You need an HDMI cable.

I don't understand how I am watching 1080p movies on the xbox then, I am a little confused
Will I be able to watch Blu-Ray movies through the components?

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Component cables can not handle 1080p. You need an HDMI cable.

Yes they can , its all up to your particular TV ie:make/model & capabilities but the right HDTV's most certainly can accept & display 1080p through Component.

[CptGreedle]

XBOX does not do 1080p movies, it does 1080i, except for maybe the new models.
Either way, an HDMI cable will yield better results.

[Draagonman]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

XBOX does not do 1080p movies, it does 1080i, except for maybe the new models.
Either way, an HDMI cable will yield better results.

The xbox displays downloaded movies in 1080p at least that's what my projector says it's at but when I play HD movies my projector switches to 1080i, my question is does the PS3 or blu-ray players do the same thing. readin the quick start guide for the PS3 it says Copyright-protected Blu-ray discs can only be output at 1080p using an HDMI cable connected to a device that is compatible with HDCP. Can I still watch the Blu-ray movie at 1080i with component?

[CptGreedle]

http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/.../613063p2.html
This link does not mention if downloads can be at a higher rate but I assumed you were talking about HD-DVDs, which can only be watched at 1080i on the 360.

You can always watch a BD at a lower resolution, 1080p is the max. So it should be fine to watch any BD at 1080i as long as your set up is right.

[Draagonman]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/.../613063p2.html
This link does not mention if downloads can be at a higher rate but I assumed you were talking about HD-DVDs, which can only be watched at 1080i on the 360.

You can always watch a BD at a lower resolution, 1080p is the max. So it should be fine to watch any BD at 1080i as long as your set up is right.

Well I can see everything now but I was/am worried about the copyright protection, is that at 1080p HDMI only or does that affect 1080i through component as well. I also wnated to know which HDMI cable to get, a version 1.3, 25ft or a non version 1.3 at 50 ft, I don't know if the 25 ft will reach my projector, Help

[Grif32]

Originally Posted by Sonny

Yes they can , its all up to your particular TV ie:make/model & capabilities but the right HDTV's most certainly can accept & display 1080p through Component.

This is true.

[CptGreedle]

Component might work as others have corrected me here, but it depends on the set up of your system.
But either way, HDMI will give you a better result and it is easier.
I am not sure what you mean by copyright protection. BD+, AACS, BDwatermark are all part of the disc, not the cords... and the players are what decodes these. Other than that I am not sure what you would be talking about.
If you think 50 feet is long enough, go with 50 feet. I find that usually signal degradation occurs if you go much longer than that... but it depends on the quality of the cable. If price is not an issue, go with Monster Cables, otherwise, go online and find a bargain. Mine are bargain cables and they run perfectly, but some people have noticed signal degradation and had other connection issues with cheaper cables.

[Draagonman]

Thanks for your help, I was actually thinking that if you watched a movie without HDMI cord that you could not see it through component. I will see Friday when I decide to go with PS3 or Stand alone, Probably the PS3 I will post here what I think about the picture quality. I had already ordered the 50 ft component from monoprice and should be here friday

[Draagonman]

Sorry it is taking so long for me to come up with some extra dinero to buy a blu-ray player. I have finally hooked up my 50ft component cable to my current system. The monsters channel look pretty good at 1080i, watched the texas chainsaw massacre. I wiil keep this updated as soon as I get a 50ft HDMI cable and probably the PS3

[toddmarshall]

I am a new member so i cannot create a forum for my question, well let me start. I have just got a 1080p capable lcd tv. I have a 360 and i am awaiting a ps3 for christmas. I am really into the new HD technology and so far i have the tv capable of true hd, 360 and soon the ps3 for games and in this instance blueray.

I am wanting hd sound, you know uncompressed pcm etc etc lol especially for my ps3 blue ray experience, i have read lots of things nd heard i need this that such as recievers that have hdmi input outputs, can anyone give me some info of what i will need for hd sound for my ps3, and how i will set it up, i know its just like hdmi lead from ps3 into hdmi in on reciever then hdmi lead from reciever to tv, but how much will i need to spend etc PLEASE HELP

[welwynnick]

Originally Posted by animepunk2103

Im confused ...

GearWorks
1080i v. 1080p
By Geoffrey Morrison • November, 2006

Less than meets the eye.
The most frequently asked questions I've received this year have been about the difference between 1080i and 1080p. Many people felt—or others erroneously told them—that their brand-new 1080p TVs were actually 1080i, as that was the highest resolution they could accept on any input. I did a blog post on this topic and received excellent questions, which I followed up on. It is an important enough question—and one that creates a significant amount of confusion—that I felt I should address it here, as well.

There Is No Difference Between 1080p and 1080i
My bold-printed, big-lettered breaker above is a little sensationalistic, but, as far as movies are concerned, this is basically true. )........

That’s a well-written article, but as with all articles that say 1080i is a good as 1080p, there is a big assumption that everyone conveniently glosses over.

With films, 1080i does indeed carry all the information you need for 1080p, but it can be successfully exploited IF the TV or display has adequate video processing. Specifically, it must be able to effectively and reliably apply inverse tele-cine de-interlacing to 1080i video. And that’s not just a big “IF”, it’s usually an invalid assumption!

While there are some TVs that can do it properly, and even some that remove the 3-2 pull-up, they are in the minority. Although technology advances rapidly, it’s still a difficult and expensive thing to do, and there’s art as well as science to the solution.

Aside from the physical problems of the incredibly high data rate that has to be processed, the first thing a display has to do is actually detect whether the video came from a film. Video that is mistakenly detected and processed as film will be full of combing artefacts. Film that is processed as video will look soft. And some material can be full of bad edits that interrupt the telecine cadence (the pairing of odd and even fields), or have video and film mixed in the same material, both of which really screw de-interlacers up.

The bobbing, weaving or scaling processes, though hardware intensive, are relatively straightforward. The fun comes with the source detection. The de-interlacer has to read the video and perform motion detection using different data from different fields. In spite of what people like to think, there’s no perfect way of doing that, and every processor gets it wrong sometimes. I used to be the Video Processors mod over at AVF, and know how anal people can get about this. I’ve had 1080p displays of one form or another that do & don’t get it right, and it does make a difference. Just watch Day After Tomorrow or MI:3 on any 1080p TV.

I’ve gotten used to the sharpness and clarity of a 1080p Optoma projector that does de-interlace 1080i “correctly”, and that was brought home to me on Sunday when my wife and I were watching a 70” SXRD RPTV in a Sony dealer. We were watching exactly the same 1080i material from the same source that we had been watching the night before, and it clearly wasn’t as sharp. Back onto 1080p from a BD player, incidentally, and it was as sharp as could be. Many people consider the Sony to be one of the best TVs ever made, but you cannot assume that 1080i is as sharp as 1080p in this, and most other cases.

Thanks for reading; I wanted to contribute something worthwhile on my 100th post,

Regards, Nick

PS: By the way, if you want to compare 1080i and p, you have to use the same source or there will be too many variables. So just use a PS3 or whatever, and switch the output between 1080i and p, and see what difference that makes on big, slow panning or zooming shots with interesting backgrounds that have lots of detail.

[nick.rose]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

There are a multitude of 1080i HDTV's having been sold and now the introduction of the 1080p displays. With the advent of the 1080p capable Blu-Ray players, can the average consumer actually see a difference between a 1080p movie over the exact 1080i movie ? Will a 1080p experience be any more thrilling than the 1080i experience ?

Jim

Answer is - VERY!

I have a Samsung 1080P LCD.

When you watch Sky HD in 1080i and then switch to Blu Ray it is like switching from standard def to high def.

A lot of people give you all this jargon about video rate, this that and the other, watch for yourself in your local electrical store on a good setup and experience 1080P.