Joss Whedon- Director

[John1701D]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

I'm not defending Kubrick, but Whedon is no Kubrick.

That's not the point and in fact makes it worse. Because Kubrick is more talented, he gets a pass?

[SilverFox84]

Originally Posted by John1701D

That's not the point and in fact makes it worse. Because Kubrick is more talented, he gets a pass?

Unfortunately, I was expecting someone to come back with that. Hate being right sometimes

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by John1701D

That's not the point and in fact makes it worse. Because Kubrick is more talented, he gets a pass?

I never said that. Also you are kinda proving my point. You said he's more talented.

[John1701D]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

I never said that. Also you are kinda proving my point. You said he's more talented.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by SilverFox84

Kubrick almost gave Shelley Duvall an actual nervous breakdown in the Shinning and is well known to be a complete bastard on set that makes JW look like a puppy but no ones cancelling him.

I had heard that. Look, I think the problem here partially is that the entire premise of wanting to "cancel" or "get rid of" someone for being mean sets a very strange precedent, does it not? Like - say you had a job at a meat packing plant 20 years ago and your boss was mean to you or called you fat, lazy, whatever. Is it mean? Well, yeah. But, does that really facilitate hunting down that boss years later(or even right away) trying to have them and their family "pay" for that or worse, have them denied working ever again in that respective field? I say no way.

I said before - if he is found guilty of sexual abuse or an actual crime then lock him up and you can "cancel" him all you want. But if this about just a toxic work environment or him being a hard-ass..... sorry but people need to thicken up the skin a bit. So I have to get all the facts here and if no crime was committed then they got nothing. Hes just a jerk and his future prospects will diminish since no one will want to work with him or for him. Let things take their course organically.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by SilverFox84

Kubrick almost gave Shelley Duvall an actual nervous breakdown in the Shinning and is well known to be a complete bastard on set that makes JW look like a puppy but no ones cancelling him.

Kubrick treated Duvall a certain way to get the performance he wanted that she wasn't giving him. He wanted her in hysteria and she wasn't getting there without going through all the takes and prodding from Kubrick. Nicholson had no problems, nor did anyone else on that film, because they understood Kubrick's method and did as he instructed. No one else has anything but kind words towards Kubrick, from what I've read.

And you know, Kubrick was Kubrick and the quality of the art he produced speaks volumes. Whedon made shitty TV shows and movies.

[SilverFox84]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

I had heard that. Look, I think the problem here partially is that the entire premise of wanting to "cancel" or "get rid of" someone for being mean sets a very strange precedent, does it not? Like - say you had a job at a meat packing plant 20 years ago and your boss was mean to you or called you fat, lazy, whatever. Is it mean? Well, yeah. But, does that really facilitate hunting down that boss years later(or even right away) trying to have them and their family "pay" for that or worse, have them denied working ever again in that respective field? I say no way.

I said before - if he is found guilty of sexual abuse or an actual crime then lock him up and you can "cancel" him all you want. But if this about just a toxic work environment or him being a hard-ass..... sorry but people need to thicken up the skin a bit. So I have to get all the facts here and if no crime was committed then they got nothing. Hes just a jerk and his future prospects will diminish since no one will want to work with him or for him. Let things take their course organically.

Completely and utterly agree with you, I despise cancel culture and my dying wish is Twitter to burn to the ground but we have to educate people to have a thicker skin to get things done. But the opposite seems to be happening and we're producing a lost generation that is churning out complete garbage on TV and Hollywood.

[John1701D]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Kubrick treated Duvall a certain way to get the performance he wanted that she wasn't giving him. He wanted her in hysteria and she wasn't getting there without going through all the takes and prodding from Kubrick. Nicholson had no problems, nor did anyone else on that film, because they understood Kubrick's method and did as he instructed. No one else has anything but kind words towards Kubrick, from what I've read.

And you know, Kubrick was Kubrick and the quality of the art he produced speaks volumes. Whedon made shitty TV shows and movies.

There you go as usual with pretending your opinion is fact. Buffy and Angel were loved by millions. Many people think Snyder makes shitty films, but it's their opinion not a fact.

You sit here on a message board talking about your fan edits of other people's work while you yourself haven't produced or directed anything original.

Whedon's alleged issues aside he has written and directed works that millions have enjoyed.

[SilverFox84]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Kubrick treated Duvall a certain way to get the performance he wanted that she wasn't giving him. He wanted her in hysteria and she wasn't getting there without going through all the takes and prodding from Kubrick. Nicholson had no problems, nor did anyone else on that film, because they understood Kubrick's method and did as he instructed. No one else has anything but kind words towards Kubrick, from what I've read.

And you know, Kubrick was Kubrick and the quality of the art he produced speaks volumes. Whedon made shitty TV shows and movies.

And I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of that point of view.

[Darth Marcus]

I'll weigh in just a bit about abusive people in power with a personal story, how it's not so easy for people to simply come forward, and leave it at that:

So my wife has a good university job, pension, great healthcare. She's lower on the totem pole, but it's still a good job. Last year she was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and required a total thyroidectomy, so we need the money/healthcare from her job to help pay off the expenses of that. All of that setup is to explain why she needs the job she has.

For a while, she had been the target of abuse by one of the higher up residents there. He's not King Shit, but he thinks he is, and his superiors love him. They all had a lot of big plans for him. It started as flirting, he would walk across the university hospital to see her, she would never reciprocate, but he would try and flirt anyway. His flirts kept getting more and more suggestive, even to the point of suggesting that he and her should go somewhere else private to "work on things". She would come home and tell me about his advances, how she would reject them, and it would understandably make me quite upset. But she felt like she could never say anything because her bosses loved him. And he would flirt with other women around the hospital, so he was seen as a bit of a "ladies' man". Then he started caressing her neck on occasion, obviously unwelcomed and it would make my wife uncomfortable and nervous. THEN, one night he waited in the parking lot for her to leave, and said they should go "hang out". She always calls me when she's leaving, so I heard all of it through the phone. Note: while he was doing all of this, he's married with kids. So, you know, real piece of shit.

So, naturally at this point I'm ready to beat the living crap out of him. This even caused a bit of a rift in my marriage, because I was ready to expose the piece of shit for what he is, but it's not as simple as that. My wife had no leverage or power to do anything about it, and if she brought this to her superiors she risked retaliatory behavior from "King Shit", and she risked the ire of the higher ups in the hospital for ruining their prodigy. She would also risk her job and her benefits, which we needed for medical payments. Eventually he backed off, she was able to ward off his advances by completely ignoring him, and even blatantly snubbing him a few times. But his behavior continued towards others, even on some who welcomed/liked the attention that came from someone like him. Eventually more and more cases came out about his behavior, and HR got in touch with my wife to talk about her experiences with him. He's no longer working there now, so that's good. Things turned out okay in the end, but this was going on for a year or so. It's really not as easy as just speaking up.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by SilverFox84

And I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of that point of view.

What hypocrisy? Did Kubrick tell Duvall to get an abortion? Was there a rule on set that young women were not allowed alone with Kubrick? Directors direct actors to get a performance, which is what he did with Duvall. Did he go to far? I don't know. I wasn't on set. But the performance speaks for itself. What Whedon is accused of has nothing to do with his directing and everything to do with him as a person. That's the difference.

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Kubrick treated Duvall a certain way to get the performance he wanted that she wasn't giving him. He wanted her in hysteria and she wasn't getting there without going through all the takes and prodding from Kubrick. Nicholson had no problems, nor did anyone else on that film, because they understood Kubrick's method and did as he instructed. No one else has anything but kind words towards Kubrick, from what I've read.

And you know, Kubrick was Kubrick and the quality of the art he produced speaks volumes. Whedon made shitty TV shows and movies.

Originally Posted by John1701D

There you go as usual with pretending your opinion is fact. Buffy and Angel were loved by millions. Many people think Snyder makes shitty films, but it's their opinion not a fact.

You sit here on a message board talking about your fan edits of other people's work while you yourself haven't produced or directed anything original.

Whedon's alleged issues aside he has written and directed works that millions have enjoyed.

Mortal Kombat 1 Movie Opening - YouTube

[JayTL]

It's one of those things that he should have been held more accountable in the past, but wasn't. I blame the head honchos more...but when someone like a Weinstein is a head honcho...it's a systemic issue in the entire industry.

[Guy87]

To describe one of the most influential TV shows of a generation, and then one of the biggest and most critically and commercially successful pop culture phenomenon movie of the NEXT generation as "shitty TV shows and movies" is genuinely funny.

[CreasyBear]

[JayTL]

"I can't judge Kubrick because I wasn't there, but that Joss sure was a POS".

I'm surprised this thread is still up to be honest

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Darth Marcus

I'll weigh in just a bit about abusive people in power with a personal story, how it's not so easy for people to simply come forward, and leave it at that:

So my wife has a good university job, pension, great healthcare. She's lower on the totem pole, but it's still a good job. Last year she was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and required a total thyroidectomy, so we need the money/healthcare from her job to help pay off the expenses of that. All of that setup is to explain why she needs the job she has.

For a while, she had been the target of abuse by one of the higher up residents there. He's not King Shit, but he thinks he is, and his superiors love him. They all had a lot of big plans for him. It started as flirting, he would walk across the university hospital to see her, she would never reciprocate, but he would try and flirt anyway. His flirts kept getting more and more suggestive, even to the point of suggesting that he and her should go somewhere else private to "work on things". She would come home and tell me about his advances, how she would reject them, and it would understandably make me quite upset. But she felt like she could never say anything because her bosses loved him. And he would flirt with other women around the hospital, so he was seen as a bit of a "ladies' man". Then he started caressing her neck on occasion, obviously unwelcomed and it would make my wife uncomfortable and nervous. THEN, one night he waited in the parking lot for her to leave, and said they should go "hang out". She always calls me when she's leaving, so I heard all of it through the phone. Note: while he was doing all of this, he's married with kids. So, you know, real piece of shit.

So, naturally at this point I'm ready to beat the living crap out of him. This even caused a bit of a rift in my marriage, because I was ready to expose the piece of shit for what he is, but it's not as simple as that. My wife had no leverage or power to do anything about it, and if she brought this to her superiors she risked retaliatory behavior from "King Shit", and she risked the ire of the higher ups in the hospital for ruining their prodigy. She would also risk her job and her benefits, which we needed for medical payments. Eventually he backed off, she was able to ward off his advances by completely ignoring him, and even blatantly snubbing him a few times. But his behavior continued towards others, even on some who welcomed/liked the attention that came from someone like him. Eventually more and more cases came out about his behavior, and HR got in touch with my wife to talk about her experiences with him. He's no longer working there now, so that's good. Things turned out okay in the end, but this was going on for a year or so. It's really not as easy as just speaking up.

Wow. First off - hope the cancer stays away! Secondly, what you described to me is a clear case of unwanted advances & quite frankly textbook harassment. Screw that. I dont know how you didnt beat the crap out of him, lol. Your story is certainly a case where just laying it all out there isnt so easy. I respect that and get it. Glad it did turn out OK and that doosh is gone.

That being said, I dont think we are anywhere that level of cut and dry / closed case type of situation with Whedon. I honestly think hes just a dick and hard to work with. Yes, that blows for those that have to endure it but its a FAR cry from dealing with cancer & sexual harassment(which I have NOT read occurred with Whedon)

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by John1701D

There you go as usual with pretending your opinion is fact. Buffy and Angel were loved by millions. Many people think Snyder makes shitty films, but it's their opinion not a fact.

You sit here on a message board talking about your fan edits of other people's work while you yourself haven't produced or directed anything original.

Whedon's alleged issues aside he has written and directed works that millions have enjoyed.

Ron Simmons DAMN - YouTube

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by mwynn

Ron Simmons DAMN - YouTube

[xbs2034]

Originally Posted by SilverFox84

Kubrick almost gave Shelley Duvall an actual nervous breakdown in the Shinning and is well known to be a complete bastard on set that makes JW look like a puppy but no ones cancelling him.

Well, Kubrick has been dead for decades so he’s a bad example. But there are people like David O Russell and David Fincher who have reputations similar to Whedon’s, yet their careers are still active so it isn’t made as big of a deal.

Like I’ve said, I feel like Whedon’s career was probably already done so he becomes an easy target (and this behavior, while a far cry from the likes of Weinstein, still should not be tolerated and deserves to be called out). Even in the WB investigation it seems like they might be covering for Walter Hamada because he is still of great importance to the studio, it’s a really crummy thing with Hollywood and even wider corporate politics.