4K UHD Blu-ray Playback on PC Desktop is officially dead in 2021?

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by ronboster

You don't want to go down the rabbit hole that is the Pioneer player thread, where after talking to a random CSR....he's logic says Pioneer must be releasing a new player. Why? Because they didn't say they whether they were or weren't. Which common sense says CSR's role is not making new electronics announcements...it's answering questions about existing products.

From that he's told other members that Pioneer will be making an announcement on a new player at CES. Would we like a new player?...we wouldn't spend time in the UHD hardware forums if we weren't fans/supporters.

Instead of just using some common sense and saying, "I hope or I wish" they'd release a new player, he continues his bull headed lack of credibility stance of insisting it's going to happen. ....based on absolutely no information from Pioneer saying it's going to happen.

I just look at these things and from what I see I can tell they may just do it. Just wait and see.

[johndoyle123]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

These two will forever be the last and the greatest UHD players ever made. The next generation of gaming machines will no longer support optical media.

I work in the industry and I can assure you right now there’s more chance we are supporting it next generation than we are not.

This obsession with death of anything is such a forum mentality

Whilst digital sales have grown massively physical sales continue to do incredibly well, much better than physical movies and music by comparison. This year we have even had instances of certain games physical sales breaking prior unit sale records

We do all enjoy reading this absolute nonsense on forums though aloud at meetings

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by johndoyle123

I work in the industry and I can assure you right now there’s more chance we are supporting it next generation than we are not.

This obsession with death of anything is such a forum mentality

Whilst digital sales have grown massively physical sales continue to do incredibly well, much better than physical movies and music by comparison. This year we have even had instances of certain games physical sales breaking prior unit sale records

We do all enjoy reading this absolute nonsense on forums though aloud at meetings

I’ll believe it when I see it.

[usually_quiet]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

I see more Apple laptops than any other brand.

So what? All that means is you personally see a lot of them. I don't see any Macs, ever, except on TV or in movies, where money changes hands for product placement.

Fortunately, Gartner and other companies that provide PC sales data that I'd accept as valid have much better sources of information than either of us.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

Well, how do you think antivirus software works? Doesn’t antivirus software scan for malicious programs? If so, they could make the player software scan for this exploit tool.

No. Just...no. It's not that simple, period. Is it 100% impossible? Maybe not, but even if it is doable, it's for reasons that are far more complicated than looking for "signatures" in files and other standard anti-virus techniques. Why? Security is basically a chain of trust. I have to be able to trust that something at a lower level isn't lying to me. The T2 breach basically means there's no reason why we can trust the chip when it tells us everything's okay.

If Apple doesn't currently have a method for detecting a breach, chances are very low that they ever will. You don't know what you're talking about, period. You sound like someone who believes a CD player from 1984 should be able to work as a UHD player simply because the discs are the same size.

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by apollo828

No. Just...no. It's not that simple, period. Is it 100% impossible? Maybe not, but even if it is doable, it's for reasons that are far more complicated than looking for "signatures" in files and other standard anti-virus techniques. Why? Security is basically a chain of trust. I have to be able to trust that something at a lower level isn't lying to me. The T2 breach basically means there's no reason why we can trust the chip when it tells us everything's okay.

If Apple doesn't currently have a method for detecting a breach, chances are very low that they ever will. You don't know what you're talking about, period. You sound like someone who believes a CD player from 1984 should be able to work as a UHD player simply because the discs are the same size.

The exploit tool would be installed on the hard drive, so looking for that file would work. The Chip itself doesn’t need to be checked. The company would learn about the tool and the name of it and make the player software look for it.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

The exploit tool would be installed on the hard drive, so looking for that file would work. The Chip itself doesn’t need to be checked. The company would learn about the tool and the name of it and make the player software look for it.

I can't even.... Look up how the chip is hacked. Big freaking hint: It doesn't require a file on the same machine. Even if you somehow looked for one specific method of delivering one specific file (bigevilfile.bin just sitting on the same laptop, waiting to be executed), this information is open source and available to anyone who wants it. You can come up with a million different ways to get it onto a machine and execute it in a manner that will go unnoticed.

Good lord, Ron White really was right.

You can't fix stupid.

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by apollo828

I can't even.... Look up how the chip is hacked. Big freaking hint: It doesn't require a file on the same machine. Even if you somehow looked for one specific method of delivering one specific file (bigevilfile.bin just sitting on the same laptop, waiting to be executed), this information is open source and available to anyone who wants it. You can come up with a million different ways to get it onto a machine and execute it in a manner that will go unnoticed.

Good lord, Ron White really was right.

You can't fix stupid.

Well then how else can you verify? I really need some ideas. There’s gotta be a way. Remember that scene in Apollo 13 where they have to figure out a way to make a square peg fit into a round hole? This is the one thing I dislike about my MacBook Pro. Everything else is great, but this is something I just have to have. Once you realize how much the computer and discs cost, you will realize how disappointed I am. With DVD-Video I could take my discs with me and watch them wherever I wanted to. I want to be able to to the same with Ultra HD Blu-ray and don’t want to be limited to streaming quality. I can’t let this be something that DVD had that Ultra HD Blu-ray doesn’t.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

Well then how else can you verify?

I'll leave the fundamental problem to you as a homework assignment. Two hints: Chain of trust, and the 2011 Comodo hack. The same basic problem applies here, only you can't get around it.

I really need some ideas.

For once, I agree with you, albeit for totally different reasons.

There’s gotta be a way. Remember that scene in Apollo 13 where they have to figure out a way to make a square peg fit into a round hole?

That's a fundamentally different problem. I assume you work in a particular field, and that there are certain things you "know" can't work. How would you feel if I kept saying, "But what about this!?!" every single time you tried to explain to me how a problem is fundamentally unsolvable? I bet you wouldn't like it. I bet you'd get frustrated with me, maybe even wonder if something was wrong with me. Meditate on that before you feel the need to keep insisting that there must be some sort of easy solution.

I can’t let this be something that DVD had that Ultra HD Blu-ray doesn’t.

That's on you. There are loads of things I'd love to have that no longer exist, or now require tricks to obtain, or whatever. Doesn't mean I'm going to troll people who know better and keep insisting they're missing something that any random person could imagine.

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by apollo828

I'll leave the fundamental problem to you as a homework assignment. Two hints: Chain of trust, and the 2011 Comodo hack. The same basic problem applies here, only you can't get around it.




For once, I agree with you, albeit for totally different reasons.




That's a fundamentally different problem. I assume you work in a particular field, and that there are certain things you "know" can't work. How would you feel if I kept saying, "But what about this!?!" every single time you tried to explain to me how a problem is fundamentally unsolvable? I bet you wouldn't like it. I bet you'd get frustrated with me, maybe even wonder if something was wrong with me. Meditate on that before you feel the need to keep insisting that there must be some sort of easy solution.




That's on you. There are loads of things I'd love to have that no longer exist, or now require tricks to obtain, or whatever. Doesn't mean I'm going to troll people who know better and keep insisting they're missing something that any random person could imagine.

What’s happening is the companies just simply are not trying. I want them to try. If they try, maybe they will come up with something. I don’t want to buy another computer just so I can watch Ultra HD Blu-ray discs anywhere.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

What’s happening is the companies just simply are not trying.

No. Just...no, especially after I mentioned how insulting your posts are to people who actually understand the problem and how bad it is. You are officially delusional if you honestly think Apple, a trillion dollar company with some of the brightest minds in the tech world, likes having an unfixable flaw on a critical piece of hardware. I simply don't know what else to tell you at this point. Want to prove me wrong? Put in an application at Apple. Considering how determined you are to prove that this is an easily fixable problem, I'm sure they'd love to see what you can do, not to mention the huge salary that would come from efficiently solving a problem that one of the top security engineering teams in the world can't seem to solve. (If your solution requires Apple to spend hundreds of billions of dollars, I can assure you that they won't listen.)

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by apollo828

No. Just...no, especially after I mentioned how insulting your posts are to people who actually understand the problem and how bad it is. You are officially delusional if you honestly think Apple, a trillion dollar company with some of the brightest minds in the tech world, likes having an unfixable flaw on a critical piece of hardware. I simply don't know what else to tell you at this point. Want to prove me wrong? Put in an application at Apple. Considering how determined you are to prove that this is an easily fixable problem, I'm sure they'd love to see what you can do, not to mention the huge salary that would come from efficiently solving a problem that one of the top security engineering teams in the world can't seem to solve. (If your solution requires Apple to spend hundreds of billions of dollars, I can assure you that they won't listen.)

Well, if neither Apple nor the BDA nor Macgo nor Pioneer will help me, I guess I’m screwed. I bought all these discs and will never own anything to play them on.

[ronboster]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

Well, if neither Apple nor the BDA nor Macgo nor Pioneer will help me, I guess I’m screwed. I bought all these discs and will never own anything to play them on.

As you get older, you'll realize life is made up of compromises.

[BijouMan]

My only source of hope is the fact that Macgo’s website says, “Currently the Pro version doesn't support 4K UHD Blu-ray discs.” At least it doesn’t say “never.” There is no hope outside of that.

Oh, and on the Pioneer side of things, I have not heard any rumors or leaks of a new player model from them. So not much hope there either, unless they decide to surprise us all at CES.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

My only source of hope is the fact that Macgo’s website says, “Currently the Pro version doesn't support 4K UHD Blu-ray discs.” At least it doesn’t say “never.” There is no hope outside of that.

Oh, and on the Pioneer side of things, I have not heard any rumors or leaks of a new player model from them. So not much hope there either, unless they decide to surprise us all at CES.

So what does that tell you?

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

So what does that tell you?

I’ll be patient.

[usually_quiet]

Originally Posted by LexInHD

The T2 security chip is nothing like Pluton. The T2 chip is not on-die and is physically separate, which is why it can be attacked easily.

Apparently, the T2 chip will be on-die going forward, starting with the M1 processor, which is being used in the latest Macs. However, this doesn't necessarily mean the T2 is now invulnerable to all known exploits because the design for the T2 chip has not changed.

[usually_quiet]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

Well, if neither Apple nor the BDA nor Macgo nor Pioneer will help me, I guess I’m screwed. I bought all these discs and will never own anything to play them on.

I must point out that anyone using a computer and a software player to watch UHD Blu-ray movies must be willing to compromise on quality. Software UHD Blu-ray players have significant limitations imposed upon them by the computer hardware they run on and the decoders that the software uses.

Surely there is a UHD Blu-ray player available that will provide an acceptable movie-watching experience for you, and all of the good ones are capable of providing a better viewing experience than any software UHD Blu-ray player.

[BijouMan]

Still nothing and it’s almost the end of the year. At this point I feel like the companies have screwed me.

[LexInHD]

Originally Posted by usually_quiet

Apparently, the T2 chip will be on-die going forward, starting with the M1 processor, which is being used in the latest Macs. However, this doesn't necessarily mean the T2 is now invulnerable to all known exploits because the design for the T2 chip has not changed.

There is no T2 chip on the new Mac. The security functions are all integrated into the SOC itself and it uses a newer, different design. The T2 used an older A10-derived design, which had been compromised years ago and it was made worse because the physical design of the chip's connectivity to the other hardware made it easy to compromise. The M1 integrates everything on the chip, so there is no physical attack vector and the software is independent from the system board itself, so there should be no easy way to break in.