The Bride With White Hair (Eureka) - October 26th 2020

[Anthony Thorne]

Previous dodgy subtitles might have been awkward or less accurate, but they wouldn’t have taken me, or any other viewer I might show the movie to, right out of the movie.

As it stands, if I show this Blu-Ray to anyone, that line will likely evoke a ‘WTF?’ moment in the person I’m watching it with, and they’ll tell me, “Hey, it looks like someone did an error with the subtitles! Did you see that?”, or I’ll have to spend half a minute telling them how we’re all aware of the error, or I can skip both of those occurrences by spending a minute beforehand telling them about this minor subtitle glitch in preparation for us both watching the scene in wry silence for a minute when the moment occurs. As far as the viewing experience goes, I don’t view it as being that different from, say, a fat patch of macroblocking sitting on screen for four or five seconds because of an encoding error. The disc still plays, you can still watch the movie, we wish that bit wasn’t there, but it is, etc etc

Either way, I’m not suggesting that Eureka recall every disc that was sent out to Zaavi, but doing a small batch of corrected discs might be nice for people who just want to watch the film from start to finish without having the figurative equivalent of a two-fingered salute pop up each viewing while you’re settling into the film.

Obviously you can see how an error like this can happen, but fair should be fair for the customers looking to buy the disc. And - drum roll - if they don’t fix this for the customers who want an error free version, it’ll be a warning that I probably shouldn’t pre-order their HK titles in future if they’re not going to adhere to the QC standards that every other label manages to do. Eureka are good guys and I like the HK line a lot, but as it stands it’s an annoying mistake that will just continue to annoy me if I buy the disc, and I’d rather buy releases where it feels like the label tried to get things right, not ones where they didn’t care enough to bother.

[roguejp]

Originally Posted by Anthony Thorne

Previous dodgy subtitles might have been awkward or less accurate, but they wouldn’t have taken me, or any other viewer I might show the movie to, right out of the movie.

As it stands, if I show this Blu-Ray to anyone, that line will likely evoke a ‘WTF?’ moment in the person I’m watching it with, and they’ll tell me, “Hey, it looks like someone did an error with the subtitles! Did you see that?”, or I’ll have to spend half a minute telling them how we’re all aware of the error, or I can skip both of those occurrences by spending a minute beforehand telling them about this minor subtitle glitch in preparation for us both watching the scene in wry silence for a minute when the moment occurs. As far as the viewing experience goes, I don’t view it as being that different from, say, a fat patch of macroblocking sitting on screen for four or five seconds because of an encoding error. The disc still plays, you can still watch the movie, we wish that bit wasn’t there, but it is, etc etc

Either way, I’m not suggesting that Eureka recall every disc that was sent out to Zaavi, but doing a small batch of corrected discs might be nice for people who just want to watch the film from start to finish without having the figurative equivalent of a two-fingered salute pop up each viewing while you’re settling into the film.

Obviously you can see how an error like this can happen, but fair should be fair for the customers looking to buy the disc. And - drum roll - if they don’t fix this for the customers who want an error free version, it’ll be a warning that I probably shouldn’t pre-order their HK titles in future if they’re not going to adhere to the QC standards that every other label manages to do. Eureka are good guys and I like the HK line a lot, but as it stands it’s an annoying mistake that will just continue to annoy me if I buy the disc, and I’d rather buy releases where it feels like the label tried to get things right, not ones where they didn’t care enough to bother.

I don't understand this...at all. It's one line. One line.

Mine's still not shipped yet (ordered it with Mothra), but I think I'll see it, think that's wierd, and go on with the movie. It won't ruin my movie experience at all.

I don't think Eureka doesn't care about the error, I mean look how much love and care goes in to their releases. But the cost for Eureka if they have to make a new disc would be huge and may harm a future purchase of another title because money can only be spent once. And imo would be overkill for such a very little error.

I also don't understand that you won't get future HK titles because of this error? Arrow, Criterion, they're other labels who had errors on discs which they didn't replace. If Arrow had one minor error on a horror movie, would you never get another horror movie from them again? Seems radical to me?

[Peachfuzz]

Originally Posted by roguejp

I don't understand this...at all. It's one line. One line.

Real fourth-wall breaking line, though. A line aimed at a person existing outside the universe of the actual film, who is actually working on a translation based within the universe of the actual film.

[drees5761]

I didn't even notice it until I saw it on here, its onscreen for about 1,.5 seconds so it's crazy to ask for a recall

[Zen_Amako]

Originally Posted by drees5761

I didn't even notice it until I saw it on here, its onscreen for about 1,.5 seconds so it's crazy to ask for a recall

Yeah, it goes by very quickly. I only noticed it because I read about it here and was keeping an eye out for it. It's a short line.

[Yautja_Warrior]

Got my copy today. Not seen this in a long time, so looking forward to watching this again and to have a little laugh at the subtitle mistake lol

[Markgway]

The thing that makes me chuckle is the teacherly tone of the correction.

Reminds me of all my homework jotters.

[Anthony Thorne]

Opinions do differ, I get it.

I don't understand this...at all.

You understood it well enough to write a rebuttal to it, so I'm assuming you did understand it, and just disagreed with it.

It won't ruin my movie experience at all.

That's fine, but I wasn't writing about your movie experience, I was referring to mine, and to the people I'm going to show the movie to.

I also don't understand that you won't get future HK titles because of this error?

No, my comment wasn't as extreme as that. What I said was

I probably shouldn’t pre-order their HK titles in future

I'm fine buying them once they come out and everyone says they're error free.

If Arrow had one minor error on a horror movie, would you never get another horror movie from them again? Seems radical to me?

It would be radical if someone in this discussion had ever suggested never buying another Eureka title ever again over this issue, but no one has. Again, if you look at what I wrote, I said I wouldn't pre-order. I'm happy ordering the film once the disc looks like it's error free.

I don't think Eureka doesn't care about the error

We're in agreement then, as I don't think they don't care about the error either. Someone wrote earlier, maybe in another thread (or here) that Eureka was considering how to respond and fix things. This is fine and shows that they do care. So, as I noted earlier, I'm waiting for whatever system they set up to rectify things to be in place before I order. Whether they press 50 corrected discs or just do a mailed exchange, or whatever, is up to them. Arrow issued a corrected disc of ZOMBIE because it was missing a shot of a boat sailing by. I'm having my fingers crossed that Eureka issue a corrected disc of BWWH because it's got a shot where the guy who did the subtitles is reminding another guy at Eureka to fix a production error, and this reminder is visible onscreen while I'm watching the movie. It's a different situation, yes, but possibly not that different. And if you disagree with my feelings about it, that's fine, but it comes out of similar impulses to the ones that led Arrow to issue their corrected ZOMBIE disc. And if you go back and read the threads about that release, there were plenty of people saying, I don't understand this, it's just one shot, surely you're not going to be bothered by one shot, it's just one shot. And here, there are people going, I don't understand this, it's just one shot with a disc production instruction on it, surely you're not going to be bothered by just one shot with a production instruction on it, etc etc. We'll have to agree to disagree. Both instances are annoying, both should be fixable, Arrow fixed the issue with their disc, Eureka should be able to fix the problem on their title. If the issue is in no way problematic, why was it ever mentioned in this thread?

Drees wrote

it's crazy to ask for a recall

Agreed, and no one in this thread has asked for a recall of this disc. I even wrote

I’m not suggesting that Eureka recall every disc that was sent out to Zaavi

But this is maybe the oddest observation in this thread.

But the cost for Eureka if they have to make a new disc would be huge and may harm a future purchase of another title because money can only be spent once

The 'new' discs - probably just a handful - would be sold to customers for money, not thrown out of the window onto the street. And I'm not suggesting Eureka re-buy the rights to BRIDE WITH WHITE HAIR, design new cover art, record new interviews, spend two days doing more QC, and then send the disc off to a replicator to print new copies. I'm suggesting Eureka get the subtitle file that they used for the final disc, delete the offending line from it, then reupload that master to the replicator and print an additional 100 copies or so, which they would then sell for cash. What would that cost them - weeks, and thousands of dollars? Or two hours in the afternoon, and a couple of hundred bucks to send off the new master?

Arrow, Eureka, 88 Films, and every other label around regularly reprint discs. Do they make money off these additional copies, or does having additional copies on hand to sell typically cost a fortune, lose them money, and harm them picking up other titles? I thought it was usually the former, rather than the latter.

And I'm not suggesting Eureka print another 3000 copies to cover the massive, enormous public demand this single subtitle error might have created. Rather, I'm assuming they could probably press 100 or so to placate idiots like me.

Or, they could tell customers to wait for the non-limited edition, and tell them that, guess what, that non-limited version - where they're pressing more copies of the film - will have that error fixed, if you can wait.

Or they could press a small fraction of the non-limited run in advance right now and tell anyone who whinged about it, hey, if you order direct from us, we'll chuck the corrected disc in for you, so feel free to buy it. I dunno.

Or, if they've already pressed the non-limited copies and they're all sitting with the same error in the warehouse, they could - again - just press another 100 copies with that error fixed. And, I don't know, maybe even print another 100 covers for them, stick them in cases, and sell them for money. I'm sure labels have a strategy that they follow when they press corrected copies of discs, and every label in the US and the UK and Australia that has eventually issued a corrected copy of a disc that originally had an error - and I'm sure I've seen this phenomenon happen before - has somehow managed it. I'm personally doubtful that Eureka aren't going, oh no, we're doomed, how can we ever fix this issue on our product, it's there forever, there's no way to fix it, hopefully every single person who buys the disc won't feel that this somehow reflects on our typical disc standards, etc etc

Of course, all this is up to them, and maybe they won't fix the offending line and everyone who buys the disc can just enjoy that glimpse into the production process as a special extra, I dunno. But this doesn't seem like Eureka. If everyone here is fine with the released disc as it stands, fine, but I'm not sure if it's that laborious a request to rectify an onscreen f*** up on a title people have been looking forward to buying. It's great that a guy above has noted that he doesn't understand what I wrote earlier, 'at all', but it's maybe not the greatest sales pitch to suggest that Eureka spent more time on the extras listed on the back of the box, than they did ensuring that the experience of actually watching the movie that they bought the rights to and spent time and money preparing a new corrected master for was pleasant and error free. I mean, I know everyone has different priorities, in this instance watching the movie from start to finish and not receiving an onscreen instruction to go and fix a subtitling error happens to be mine. Crazy, huh?

As an alternative, if everyone thinks that errors like this are nothing to worry about, and not worth the label's time to bother about, feel free to stop mentioning them in discussion threads. They can just be kept secret as a special surprise for the eventual buyer.

[roguejp]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Anthony Thorne

Opinions do differ, I get it.



You understood it well enough to write a rebuttal to it, so I'm assuming you did understand it, and just disagreed with it.



That's fine, but I wasn't writing about your movie experience, I was referring to mine, and to the people I'm going to show the movie to.



No, my comment wasn't as extreme as that. What I said was



I'm fine buying them once they come out and everyone says they're error free.



It would be radical if someone in this discussion had ever suggested never buying another Eureka title ever again over this issue, but no one has. Again, if you look at what I wrote, I said I wouldn't pre-order. I'm happy ordering the film once the disc looks like it's error free.



We're in agreement then, as I don't think they don't care about the error either. Someone wrote earlier, maybe in another thread (or here) that Eureka was considering how to respond and fix things. This is fine and shows that they do care. So, as I noted earlier, I'm waiting for whatever system they set up to rectify things to be in place before I order. Whether they press 50 corrected discs or just do a mailed exchange, or whatever, is up to them. Arrow issued a corrected disc of ZOMBIE because it was missing a shot of a boat sailing by. I'm having my fingers crossed that Eureka issue a corrected disc of BWWH because it's got a shot where the guy who did the subtitles is reminding another guy at Eureka to fix a production error, and this reminder is visible onscreen while I'm watching the movie. It's a different situation, yes, but possibly not that different. And if you disagree with my feelings about it, that's fine, but it comes out of similar impulses to the ones that led Arrow to issue their corrected ZOMBIE disc. And if you go back and read the threads about that release, there were plenty of people saying, I don't understand this, it's just one shot, surely you're not going to be bothered by one shot, it's just one shot. And here, there are people going, I don't understand this, it's just one shot with a disc production instruction on it, surely you're not going to be bothered by just one shot with a production instruction on it, etc etc. We'll have to agree to disagree. Both instances are annoying, both should be fixable, Arrow fixed the issue with their disc, Eureka should be able to fix the problem on their title. If the issue is in no way problematic, why was it ever mentioned in this thread?

Drees wrote



Agreed, and no one in this thread has asked for a recall of this disc. I even wrote



But this is maybe the oddest observation in this thread.



The 'new' discs - probably just a handful - would be sold to customers for money, not thrown out of the window onto the street. And I'm not suggesting Eureka re-buy the rights to BRIDE WITH WHITE HAIR, design new cover art, record new interviews, spend two days doing more QC, and then send the disc off to a replicator to print new copies. I'm suggesting Eureka get the subtitle file that they used for the final disc, delete the offending line from it, then reupload that master to the replicator and print an additional 100 copies or so, which they would then sell for cash. What would that cost them - weeks, and thousands of dollars? Or two hours in the afternoon, and a couple of hundred bucks to send off the new master?

Arrow, Eureka, 88 Films, and every other label around regularly reprint discs. Do they make money off these additional copies, or does having additional copies on hand to sell typically cost a fortune, lose them money, and harm them picking up other titles? I thought it was usually the former, rather than the latter.

And I'm not suggesting Eureka print another 3000 copies to cover the massive, enormous public demand this single subtitle error might have created. Rather, I'm assuming they could probably press 100 or so to placate idiots like me.

Or, they could tell customers to wait for the non-limited edition, and tell them that, guess what, that non-limited version - where they're pressing more copies of the film - will have that error fixed, if you can wait.

Or they could press a small fraction of the non-limited run in advance right now and tell anyone who whinged about it, hey, if you order direct from us, we'll chuck the corrected disc in for you, so feel free to buy it. I dunno.

Or, if they've already pressed the non-limited copies and they're all sitting with the same error in the warehouse, they could - again - just press another 100 copies with that error fixed. And, I don't know, maybe even print another 100 covers for them, stick them in cases, and sell them for money. I'm sure labels have a strategy that they follow when they press corrected copies of discs, and every label in the US and the UK and Australia that has eventually issued a corrected copy of a disc that originally had an error - and I'm sure I've seen this phenomenon happen before - has somehow managed it. I'm personally doubtful that Eureka aren't going, oh no, we're doomed, how can we ever fix this issue on our product, it's there forever, there's no way to fix it, hopefully every single person who buys the disc won't feel that this somehow reflects on our typical disc standards, etc etc

Of course, all this is up to them, and maybe they won't fix the offending line and everyone who buys the disc can just enjoy that glimpse into the production process as a special extra, I dunno. But this doesn't seem like Eureka. If everyone here is fine with the released disc as it stands, fine, but I'm not sure if it's that laborious a request to rectify an onscreen f*** up on a title people have been looking forward to buying. It's great that a guy above has noted that he doesn't understand what I wrote earlier, 'at all', but it's maybe not the greatest sales pitch to suggest that Eureka spent more time on the extras listed on the back of the box, than they did ensuring that the experience of actually watching the movie that they bought the rights to and spent time and money preparing a new corrected master for was pleasant and error free. I mean, I know everyone has different priorities, in this instance watching the movie from start to finish and not receiving an onscreen instruction to go and fix a subtitling error happens to be mine. Crazy, huh?

As an alternative, if everyone thinks that errors like this are nothing to worry about, and not worth the label's time to bother about, feel free to stop mentioning them in discussion threads. They can just be kept secret as a special surprise for the eventual buyer.

Well, I do understand that you want to spend more time then I do on this itsy bitsy error, as you're picking each sentence, from me and others that disagree with you, apart and disecting it (and mind you, not always in the right way imo).

That's fine. I thought about it and could do the same to your response, but it's just not worth the time, sorry. That's not a personal thing about you btw, but I just don't think it's worth more time to discuss an error of one line of a subtitle. As I said before, life's too short.....

[reason108]

As far as that subtitle issue, I think it's onscreen for literaly 1 or 2 seconds at the most. I almost missed it and I'm an experienced HK subtitle reader. Had to pause and go back and read it. Got a nice little chuckle. But, if it hadn't been mentioned in this thread, I probably would have never noticed it.


Finished watching the movie and need to give a huge shout out to Eureka, everyone here their did their part, for finally releasing the version that this movie deserves! They have done a stupendous job! This is certainly the definitive, go-to, release of this film, ever! A damn near perfect presentation of not only one of my favorite HK films but also probably one of the best of the 90`s. A classic! This was everything that the previous Pegasus, HK blu-ray was not! Don't just buy Eureka for the PQ. The interviews are really good and not fluff pieces like you find on other releases. I wasn't able to finish everything on the disc due to time constraints. But, I watched the movie itself, interviews with Ronny Yu, Joe Tay, screenwriter, Jason Lam Kee To (most of it as it is really lengthy), songwriter, Richard Yuen and editor, David Wu. Also, nice booklet. Lots of info on the behind-the-scenes on how the movie came together.

Overall, the Eureka keeps the basic darker design of the Tai Seng dvd, though not as dark. Perhaps the Tai Seng dvd was a bit too dark but was pretty faithful to the theatrical. Pegasus who hold the rights in HK made a travesty of this movie previously and I included some screenshots that I have already uploaded as I couldn't find that disk right now for new comparison shots. Also, did the same thing with the Tai Seng dvd. Normally, I prefer to match shots from across releases to get a good idea of PQ, lighting, etc. I included some extra Eureka shots as that is probably how most will go, and should. If I'm not mistaken, everything from the old Tai Seng dvd was ported over for this release.

The most obvious thing here is that the Pegasus blu-ray was way too bright. It's end title sequence was re-edited and there was also the title card at the end that was not a part of the movie`s original design. Mandarin Films was the original rights owner.



Pegesus HK blu-ray:






Tai Seng dvd:






Eureka UK blu-ray:

[Eibon]

Anthony makes some good points but I think those of us who have lived through early VHS burned-in subs with wonky translations won't be too bothered with this issue and while it was an avoidable mistake (the proof reader had the tools to either alter the sub file or even mark the annotation as not displayed), I personally don't think it's worth a recall or replacement because it's easily overlooked.

That said, subtitling is tricky business and one shouldn't be trying to accurately translate and in the process lose the spirit, immediacy and context which needs to be considered while trying to avoid unnecessary anachronisms. The words need to convey the story but also appear to be the words of the character and not dry prose.

I'll be interested to see where we get "there is naught but white hair" from what I previously had on a disc,"Fire cannot burn, love cannot alter her white hair". I can only assume of course it's a more literal translation but it's a pop ballad and I don't think anyone would use "naught" in a pop ballad. I watched Eureka's City Hunter recently and I was somewhat confused by the overly literal translations. Sure they may be academically correct translations but I thought them overly complex for such a movie. I'd be happier if companies did the English equivalent of simplified and complex options available to Chinese viewers of HK releases. Not of course for the same reasons, rather to offer literal and interpreted subtitling options. At times like this I'm always reminded of how Criterion opted on Throne of Blood, to include separate translations from Linda Hoagland and Donald Richie.

[Parsifal]

Originally Posted by Eibon

I'll be interested to see where we get "there is naught but white hair" from what I previously had on a disc,"Fire cannot burn, love cannot alter her white hair". I can only assume of course it's a more literal translation but it's a pop ballad and I don't think anyone would use "naught" in a pop ballad. I watched Eureka's City Hunter recently and I was somewhat confused by the overly literal translations. Sure they may be academically correct translations but I thought them overly complex for such a movie. I'd be happier if companies did the English equivalent of simplified and complex options available to Chinese viewers of HK releases. Not of course for the same reasons, rather to offer literal and interpreted subtitling options. At times like this I'm always reminded of how Criterion opted on Throne of Blood, to include separate translations from Linda Hoagland and Donald Richie.

This is exactly why I don't understand why the new translator should have at the very least kept Frank Djeng's original Tai Seng subtitle translation of the end song. He mentioned it in his commentary that he specifically translated the lyrics in a way so that Westerners can SING ALONG with Leslie's song and that he heard folks at comic conventions singing it once they caught on the melody. By changing the ballad's translation it completely ruined that effect.

Perhaps Eureka should have Frank redo the subtitles for them more. I've only seen his name listed as the translator for THROWDOWN and it was excellent as it was almost like the same subs he did for the Tai Seng DVD, but slightly better.

[derek_1999]

Originally Posted by reason108

The most obvious thing here is that the Pegasus blu-ray was way too bright. It's end title sequence was re-edited and there was also the title card at the end that was not a part of the movie`s original design. Mandarin Films was the original rights owner.



Pegesus HK blu-ray:





Tai Seng dvd:





Eureka UK blu-ray:

Just something that jumped out at me... the Eureka A/R looks a little stretched (or is it me?)

The Pegasus looks to be the correct A/R - and also shows more image in the frame (shoulder).

In terms of the grade, it looks like a halfway house - definitely see modern colour grading sensibilities there - the Tai-Seng retains the 'true blue' & purple (deep/rich/glowing style - and sort of how I remember it) whilst the Eureka has the creep to green/cyan hues often seen in modern grading.

However, the Eureka does look nice

[Killer Meteor]

I'll e-mail Eureka and see what they come back with.

[spannick]

Some folks here have no idea that doing a new bluray pressing master is VERY costly, no matter if you "just press 100" or 3000 (you usually cannot press 100 or such small numbers). Stop dreaming nonsense, especially regarding such super small mini error, this is plain embarassing.

[johnpaul2]

Originally Posted by spannick

Some folks here have no idea that doing a new bluray pressing master is VERY costly, no matter if you "just press 100" or 3000 (you usually cannot press 100 or such small numbers). Stop dreaming nonsense, especially regarding such super small mini error, this is plain embarassing.

There have been cases where small issues were deemed enough to generate repressing some discs. Arrow re-pressed some Theatre of Blood discs (IIRC, it even was a non negligible replacement system, including automatic replacement for every copy bought directly from their webstore) just because one of the extra was pixellated during a few seconds. And yes, since a glassmaster was prepared and some new encoding/authoring work had to be done to generate it, it's not that much cheaper to press 100 rather than 500 discs (since the price of a glassmaster is very high). But still, they did it.

I can't say I care for this small (to me) mistake (and one I found funny at that), but I do understand Anthony's point that it's not very different from a punctual intense macroblocking moment, something that's not a structural issue over the whole movie but that can be distracting for a moment, that might require an explanation if you're watching it with people less "in the know", and that, as it stands, is an error that should have been caught during QC and didn't. And true enough, if it wasn't that distracting, it wouldn't even have been mentioned here in the first place.

Now, it's for Eureka to decide if this is problematic enough to warrant spending money on repressing some discs (and if so, how many/much), but let's say I'd understand choosing to do so as much as choosing not to.

[n0tredom]

It'd be cool if Eureka provided the fixed .srt file as a downloadable option somehow...

[Ste7en]

I've dropped a bollock like this in the past, left some editing notes on some camera-ready artwork which made it into the final publication. Shit happens and you eventually move on.

I'll have a little titter to myself when I sit down to watch it but it will not affect my enjoyment of a (long overdue) stellar presentation of a 'forgotten' classic one iota.

[Killer Meteor]

If only 88 Films replaced the discs for SNAKE & CRANE and CANNIBAL TERROR with ones with actual damn subtitles!

[tankz]

The Eureka disc is the 4th Edition of this film I've bought on Blu Ray (Mainland China, HK, France). This latest release from Eureka is great, the new colour grading, original Dolby Stereo track sounds excellent and the extra features are meaty. It's also a fraction of the price of all the other discs. Not buying this disc because of a single subtitle line error would be a serious mistake and I think would send the wrong message to the Eureka if sales are poor. I would much rather spend Eureka spend the money to license and release more Hong Kong films.