Meet John Doe 4K UHD (1941) coming from ClassicFlix

[Brian81]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

Thanks everyone for "waiting for it to be cheaper"... here's your consequence. And people wonder why physical media is still dying.

So we have to purchase before we even know how it is?

[sidetracked1]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I think CF should at least consider going the crowdfunding route to secure the funding needed to put this out on 4K as well.

Wow, so disappointing. I'm sure the folks at CF are really frustrated. :-(

I'm ordering the blu-ray now to support CF and what they're trying to do.

And I do wonder if there's any sort of crowdfunding model that might work. I bet there's a lot of film-fans that would jump in if they knew it's a 'we're only making this if we get enough support up front' situation. I'd even pay more than they'd been asking just to help see it happen

David, if you're checking in here and there's any approach that might help this make sense, let us know, maybe do an email to your base and see what kind of response you get?

[Areyakiddin]

All looks lost and the people are trying to save the day by coming together, this thread is starting to look lie a real-life Capra movie.

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

Thanks everyone for "waiting for it to be cheaper"... here's your consequence. And people wonder why physical media is still dying.

I read this in Mr. Potter's voice.

[GeoffOliver]

Disappointing, but I’d rather have a 4K edition sourced from the OCN anyway, since it survives. I’m okay getting the Blu-ray though.

[filmlover22]

how about releasing the 4k separately as a limited edition with producing enough units to make a small profit, see how that goes, and then print some more if it is successful.
Not sure if that is financially feasible, but wondering if that would help.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by crackedknee

It wasn't something they thought was a "possibility", as the statement they put out says:

"While this isn't something we even remotely anticipated, the extremely poor pre-sales for the release leaves us no alternative."

I read the statement. People do not expect a release to be cancelled because of "extremely poor pre-sales" unless that is announced as such beforehand.

So I will repeat, if cancelling the release based on sales was a possibility, then they should have mentioned that when the release went up for pre-order in the first place.

Let me also say that consumers should not be expected to figure out how ClassicFlix operates or whether they need to meet sales threshold "x" to release a title. If ClassicFlix is working with those kinds of realities, then they need to be upfront about it. Plenty of boutique labels announce print runs, limited editions and so on.

[Braktastic]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

Thanks everyone for "waiting for it to be cheaper"... here's your consequence. And people wonder why physical media is still dying.

It's not uncommon for companies in other industries, toy collectible companies for example, to gauge interest via pre-orders. The simple fact of the matter is there's not enough people interested in this title in 4K UHD for ClassicFlix to recover their costs. Frankly, I'm a little surprised they needed pre-orders to figure that out for this title.

Also, please stop with the physical media is dying histrionics. Is this not getting a Blu-ray release?

[smithb]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

I read the statement. People do not expect a release to be cancelled because of "extremely poor pre-sales" unless that is announced as such beforehand.

So I will repeat, if cancelling the release based on sales was a possibility, then they should have mentioned that when the release went up for pre-order in the first place.

Let me also say that consumers should not be expected to figure out how ClassicFlix operates or whether they need to meet sales threshold "x" to release a title. If ClassicFlix is working with those kinds of realities, then they need to be upfront about it. Plenty of boutique labels announce print runs, limited editions and so on.

If as stated, "While this isn't something we even remotely anticipated." then in their minds it wasn't seen as a possibility until it happened, and now they are responding in the only way they know how. I can't see any reason why they would want to risk this type of backlash. Personally, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt. It's easy to say in hindsight what they should of/could of done differently.

[RiFiFi1955]

Had a strong feeling this would be the situation/announcement but yeah I can't blame CF too much here. It seems like they got a little ahead of themselves(we are all human) and they now see a possibly where they may end up loosing money. This is a business and while it is easy for us to say "just make the customers happy as originally announced" a profit loss can hurt a small business and possibly interfere with other titles being released. Could CF had handle this better? Sure, but in the end we are still going to have a physical release from a 4K scan that is going to look miles better than anything we have seen on home video of this as this title was in desperate need of a restoration.

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by Braktastic

It's not uncommon for companies in other industries, toy collectible companies for example, to gauge interest via pre-orders. The simple fact of the matter is there's not enough people interested in this title in 4K UHD for ClassicFlix to recover their costs. Frankly, I'm a little surprised they needed pre-orders to figure that out for this title.

This is why Sony releases certain 4K titles exclusively via their Columbia Classics sets, including their Capras. People hate it, and I understand why, but unfortunately from a business perspective it makes the most sense.

Also, a big part of the problem for ClassicFlix is a general lack of awareness. They don’t have a strong social media/marketing presence and rely almost exclusively on online word of mouth.

Who knows, maybe they could team up with Criterion or Kino to release their 4K restoration on UHD. I’m excited for “just” the blu-ray regardless. This film has never received what most would probably consider a good home video release. Definitely one case where a film’s public domain status has done more to hurt than help.

[smithb]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

Who knows, maybe they could team up with Criterion or Kino to release their 4K restoration on UHD.

It's a PD title, which is what I believe ClassicFlix focuses on. if Criterion or Kino wanted to do it, they would just do it. There would be no need for ClassicFlix to be in the equation, nor would I think they would want them to be. As I understand it, ClassicFlix is a small organization purposely doing PD titles, with no licensing costs, that no one else is touching. That is their niche and model. As PD titles, they need to carefully calculate costs and ROI so that they can order an allotment, sell it, and make a small profit while moving on to the next title.

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by smithb

It's a PD title, which is what I believe ClassicFlix focuses on. if Criterion or Kino wanted to do it, they would just do it. There would be no need for ClassicFlix to be in the equation, nor would I think they would want them to be. As I understand it, ClassicFlix is a small organization purposely doing PD titles, with no licensing costs, that no one else is touching. That is their niche and model. As PD titles, they need to carefully calculate costs and ROI so that they can order an allotment, sell it, and make a small profit while moving on to the next title.

What’s your point here? We know ClassicFlix specializes in PD restorations. We know they’re a small company. That was literally the point of my saying they might (read: possibly/one day) want to look into partnering with another distributor to release their 4K restoration on UHD. It’s just an idea, no need to explain their entire business model.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Brian81

So we have to purchase before we even know how it is?

I mean, would you rather it be cancelled? Welcome to physical media 2024.

Originally Posted by Braktastic

It's not uncommon for companies in other industries, toy collectible companies for example, to gauge interest via pre-orders. The simple fact of the matter is there's not enough people interested in this title in 4K UHD for ClassicFlix to recover their costs. Frankly, I'm a little surprised they needed pre-orders to figure that out for this title.

Also, please stop with the physical media is dying histrionics. Is this not getting a Blu-ray release?

And since its common for every one to want it cheaper, this not pre-ordering, this is what you get.

It IS getting a blu-ray release. but 4K UHD is the only format between blu and DVD that actually grew in 2023. The best format that most closely represents 35mm film. Blithely calling it histrionics is cute and all, yet it's just simple verifiable fact. Funny how people are still in denial about that.

[smithb]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

What’s your point here? We know ClassicFlix specializes in PD restorations. We know they’re a small company. That was literally the point of my saying they might (read: possibly/one day) want to look into partnering with another distributor to release their 4K restoration on UHD. It’s just an idea, no need to explain their entire business model.

There was no attitude intended in what I wrote. I was just trying to explain why I didn't think such a collaboration would work. I'm not sure how I could have done that without adding something about their business model.

[mindset]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

Who knows, maybe they could team up with Criterion or Kino to release their 4K restoration on UHD. I’m excited for “just” the blu-ray regardless. This film has never received what most would probably consider a good home video release. Definitely one case where a film’s public domain status has done more to hurt than help.

They could attempt to share the cost with Region B companies. They might also choose to invest their considerable talents (see their exquisite Raw Deal and T men blu rays) on a better prospect. What about a restored 4K UHD of say, Kansas City Confidential. Noir sells. Ask Indicator. Better yet, why don't CF ask Indicator?

[smithb]

Originally Posted by mindset

What about a restored 4K UHD of say, Kansas City Confidential. Noir sells.

I'd be happy with a nicely restored blu-ray of Kansas City Confidential. Others have tried. I think the question there is whether there is a decent source print around that CF can get a hold of that is better than what the others have had to work from.

[RiFiFi1955]

Originally Posted by smithb

I'd be happy with a nicely restored blu-ray of Kansas City Confidential. Others have tried. I think the question there is whether there is a decent source print around that CF can get a hold of that is better than what the others have had to work from.

Yes a upgraded blu of Kansas City Confidential would be awesome, as would The Red House!!!!

[happydood]

Originally Posted by sidetracked1

Wow, so disappointing. I'm sure the folks at CF are really frustrated. :-(

I'm ordering the blu-ray now to support CF and what they're trying to do.

And I do wonder if there's any sort of crowdfunding model that might work. I bet there's a lot of film-fans that would jump in if they knew it's a 'we're only making this if we get enough support up front' situation. I'd even pay more than they'd been asking just to help see it happen

David, if you're checking in here and there's any approach that might help this make sense, let us know, maybe do an email to your base and see what kind of response you get?

I did the same. I was absolutely going to buy the 4k, I just didn't realize what a small window we had. Either way, I want to support them, too, and I'll happily take a BR considering the awful public domain copy I've lived with for too many years...

[Beebob]

I had preordered the 4k from Movies Unlimited back in December. But on January 31, I got a cancellation email, saying they were not able to fill the item. I thought the timing was odd since the 4k wasn't due for release for months yet. But surely it didn't take ClassicFlix two weeks to announce the cancellation?

[floridaswamprat]

I am no sells expert, but I would think that sales would have been better if they released it as originally anticipated before Christmas (2023). I personally would be more willing to buy a Christmas movie closer to (and before) the holiday.