Possession 4K UHD (1981) (Second Sight)

[snipemonkey]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

I owe you such misery for being an EXORCIST II champion.

All right-thinking people champion Exorcist II.

[Scoot79]

Obviously this is coming 2024 at the earliest.

[Rusty100]

Originally Posted by dribblybob

Umbrella version just arrived, hopefully this helps with the questions about the restoration:

TFI STUDIO présente

Possession (1981) Un film d'Andrzej Żuławski
Restauré en 4K
à partir du négatif image original
Travaux numériques et photochimiques réalisés et supervisés par Le Chat Qui Fume, 2020

Ahh thank you for this. I already have the le chat qui fume version, have cancelled this one.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Rusty100

Ahh thank you for this. I already have the le chat qui fume version, have cancelled this one.

Doesn't the LCQF have some component of it with subtitles or titles or something that isnt 100% english friendly?

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Doesn't the LCQF have some component of it with subtitles or titles or something that isnt 100% english friendly?

It has no English subs at all, so that’s a major win for the Umbrella disc alone.

[Brian81]

Anyone stuck here deciding on which to go for? I already own the LCQF. I am about to pull the trigger on the AU edition as I want a region A BD of the chopped down cut (the Second Sight is going to have it but it'll be on a locked B disc). But it's got that nice box with the US poster artwork which isn't on any of the other editions I own. Well, my old Anchor Bay sorta had a version of it.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Brian81

Anyone stuck here deciding on which to go for? I already own the LCQF. I am about to pull the trigger on the AU edition as I want a region A BD of the chopped down cut (the Second Sight is going to have it but it'll be on a locked B disc). But it's got that nice box with the US poster artwork which isn't on any of the other editions I own. Well, my old Anchor Bay sorta had a version of it.

So, here is my thought process.

I had the LCQF too and sold it before all of this , because I knew it would not be the best version for me as it was not fully english-friendly.

The Umbrella is a more English-friendly version of the LCQF.

The LCQF is the official, director-approved 4K version of Possession per the rights owners. LCQF also documented their process and they went through quite extensive efforts through multiple avenues to ensure they were getting as close as possible to the intended look.

Second Sight will likely make some modifications people will subjectively like, such as grading in HDR, backing off on some of the highlights, maybe a bit warmer, etc; but this then becomes more of a preference thing than which one is "right."


...So, I don't think you can go wrong at all by selling the LCQF and buying the Umbrella. Then you'll have an English-friendly version of the official director-approved restoration that was exhibited theatrically, which the Second Sight version will never be. When the Second Sight comes out next year, it will be different, and you can assess at that time if you like the changes they made vs. the official version. There have been times Second Sight has done "additional restoration" and I felt they got it totally wrong like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and there are other times when they have done additional restoration and made an improvement such as The Witch.

[Brian81]

Zulawski did approve the Mondo and Second Sight BD and it's got more detail in the highlights than the more blown out LCQF. I remember before the Mondo was released there was some caps provided of the bathroom interior showing detail that was blown out previously but now visible.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Brian81

Zulawski did approve the Mondo and Second Sight BD and it's got more detail in the highlights than the more blown out LCQF. I remember before the Mondo was released there was some caps provided of the bathroom interior showing detail that was blown out previously but now visible.

Zulawski won't be alive to approve the Second Sight 4K, and the LCQF resto is the only director-approved 4K version per the rights owners (however they got there). The LCQF resto is also the official 4K resto that was theatrically exhibited, which gives it an air of theatrical "originality" for those that care about that; whatever Second Sight does will likely never be theatrically exhibited, but rather just a home video alteration.

Finally, from a physics/lighting POV, looking at this scene that people frequently post as a whole the LCQF lighting looks more appropriate - note the massive glare on the desk near the window in both versions, that would likely not be possible without direct sunlight coming to the room and the Second Sight's "less blown out" light would not be bright enough to achieve that in real life. The LCQF while showing less of the (irrelevant) background detail has a more appropriate brightness at the window to achieve the level of glare in the room. So rather than just looking at it from a "blown out is bad" simplistic mindset, looking at the cohesiveness of the lighting and how it interacts with objects in the room, the LCQF looks more right from a physics perspective here while the Second Sight looks too dark for the amount of glare on objects in the room.

[kmhofmann]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Zulawski won't be alive to approve the Second Sight 4K, and the LCQF resto is the only director-approved 4K version per the rights owners (however they got there).

It can't be director-approved if the director died before restoration even started - a very simple matter of definition. The only versions that have some kind of director sign-off, according to a project collaborator, are the Mondo Vision and Second Sight Blu-rays.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by kmhofmann

It can't be director-approved if the director died before restoration even started - a very simple matter of definition. The only versions that have some kind of director sign-off, according to a project collaborator, are the Mondo Vision and Second Sight Blu-rays.

The rights owner of Possession claims the only director-approved 4K transfer is the one offered by LCQF/Umbrella. The LCQF/Umbrella 4K transfer was also the only 4K transfer that was ever theatrically exhibited in any official capacity. These are objectively provable statements, even if you disagree with them.

I am sure Second Sight's version will be different, but also good in its own way. But if you want to replicate the original theatrical experience in 4K, there is no closer way to achieve that than the LCQF/Umbrella transfer as it was, unlike Second Sight's, theatrically exhibited by Metrograph:
https://collider.com/possession-4k-r...rical-release/

[kmhofmann]

Originally Posted by Ruined

The rights owner of Possession claims the only director-approved 4K transfer is the one offered by LCQF/Umbrella.

Who claims this ? The rights owner (can you specify exactly who this is)? Or Umbrella in initial marketing material? Either way, I find it a worthless statement, as Zulawski died in 2016 and this restoration wasn't even started until years later.

Originally Posted by Ruined

The LCQF/Umbrella 4K transfer was also the only 4K transfer that was ever theatrically exhibited in any official capacity. These are objectively provable statements, even if you disagree with them.

That one is objectively correct although it provides zero information as to whether this is an approved or correct version, whatever this may mean.

Originally Posted by Ruined

But if you want to replicate the original theatrical experience in 4K, there is no closer way to achieve that than the LCQF/Umbrella transfer as it was, unlike Second Sight's, theatrically exhibited by Metrograph:
https://collider.com/possession-4k-r...rical-release/

Extraordinary statements require extraordinary proof. So far, I see your opinion ("LCQF resto is the one") but no proof.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by kmhofmann

Who claims this ? The rights owner (can you specify exactly who this is)? Or Umbrella in initial marketing material? Either way, I find it a worthless statement, as Zulawski died in 2016 and this restoration wasn't even started until years later.

https://twitter.com/UmbrellaEnt/stat...153364480?s=20

That one is objectively correct although it provides zero information as to whether this is an approved or correct version, whatever this may mean.

Let's look at this objectively:
-Per Umbrella it is the only 4K restoration of the film approved by the director and the living rights holders of the film. Unless you want to venture into "Umbrella are liars" territory, which is a bit of a reach for me/cope territory. This also makes sense logically, as this same restoration had a theatrical release which likely had to be authorized by the rights holders.

-Consequently, we know the LCQF/Umbrella 4K transfer is the only 4K restoration of the film that was theatrically released.

So at the minimum, the LCQF/Umbrella is not only "approved," but also if you wanted to recreate the "original theatrical experience" in 4K, that is literally what the LCQF/Umbrella is verbatim, can't get more "correct" than that.

Extraordinary statements require extraordinary proof. So far, I see your opinion ("LCQF resto is the one") but no proof.

Also as a side note, after Tobe Hooper passed Second Sight followed the same procedure with their 4K release of TCM, "looking back at their old director approved resto," and the 4K HDR release of Second Sight has some of the most skewed, digitally boosted, and bizarre color grading I've ever seen for TCM. So, while Second Sight often does great work that subjectively looks nice, I would not always attribute "correct" to it.

And, in this case, even if the Second Sight comes out in Dolby Vision at 100mbps bitrate and FiM encoding, it still will not be a theatrical version of the film, unlike the LCQF/Umbrella release's transfer. The Second Sight will instead simply be a home video version.

So, for the poster above that was trying to debate whether to get the Umbrella, the theatrical exhibition component, at the minimum, will always give the LCQF/Umbrella transfer an air of originial "theatrical exhibition" authenticity that the Second Sight release will not have - and thus, the Umbrella will be worth owning regardless of what the Second Sight looks like.

[dallywhitty]

Possession

[nekromantik]

i may sell my LCQF in prep for this

[By_His_Strypes]

is there an expected release timeframe for the second sight release?

[everygrainofsand]

Originally Posted by Ruined

https://twitter.com/UmbrellaEnt/stat...153364480?s=20


Let's look at this objectively:
-Per Umbrella it is the only 4K restoration of the film approved by the director and the living rights holders of the film. Unless you want to venture into "Umbrella are liars" territory, which is a bit of a reach for me/cope territory. This also makes sense logically, as this same restoration had a theatrical release which likely had to be authorized by the rights holders.

-Consequently, we know the LCQF/Umbrella 4K transfer is the only 4K restoration of the film that was theatrically released.

So at the minimum, the LCQF/Umbrella is not only "approved," but also if you wanted to recreate the "original theatrical experience" in 4K, that is literally what the LCQF/Umbrella is verbatim, can't get more "correct" than that.



Also as a side note, after Tobe Hooper passed Second Sight followed the same procedure with their 4K release of TCM, "looking back at their old director approved resto," and the 4K HDR release of Second Sight has some of the most skewed, digitally boosted, and bizarre color grading I've ever seen for TCM. So, while Second Sight often does great work that subjectively looks nice, I would not always attribute "correct" to it.

And, in this case, even if the Second Sight comes out in Dolby Vision at 100mbps bitrate and FiM encoding, it still will not be a theatrical version of the film, unlike the LCQF/Umbrella release's transfer. The Second Sight will instead simply be a home video version.

So, for the poster above that was trying to debate whether to get the Umbrella, the theatrical exhibition component, at the minimum, will always give the LCQF/Umbrella transfer an air of originial "theatrical exhibition" authenticity that the Second Sight release will not have - and thus, the Umbrella will be worth owning regardless of what the Second Sight looks like.

Lol.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by everygrainofsand

Lol.

I know, humor can often help with discomfort. But thems the facts.

LCQF/Umbrella = Official 4K theatrical release transfer, director & rights-holder approved
Second Sight = Tweaked 4K home video release transfer, cameraman approved

You may end up liking one or the other better, but these are the base characteristics of each release.

[kmhofmann]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Unless you want to venture into "Umbrella are liars" territory, which is a bit of a reach for me/cope territory.

I won't call them liars outright but yes, I am venturing into "this is a vastly overinflated statement" scenario. Unless they raised Zulawski from the dead to approve the transfer (Nobel Prize and many other science prizes outright!), there is absolutely no way he could have had any say in the restoration that LCQF did, let alone approved anything directly. So, something has to be inaccurate in the statement.

Besides, "rightsholders" don't necessarily know anything about what look of a film is correct or how it looked at the time of release. "They", whoever they are, acquired the rights to release the movie at some point. It's unclear whether this is indeed Zulawski's estate or someone random that bought some rights to commission a restoration. Hence my question if you actually know who this is.
Thus, that's a pretty worthless part of that statement.

Originally Posted by Ruined

Also as a side note, after Tobe Hooper passed Second Sight followed the same procedure with their 4K release of TCM, "looking back at their old director approved resto," and the 4K HDR release of Second Sight has some of the most skewed, digitally boosted, and bizarre color grading I've ever seen for TCM.

Well, you're pretty much the only one with that opinion, fearlessly and repeatedly defending it in the respective thread to the point of excess.

Honest question: have you ever considered that the one with the odd-one-out opinions might be... you?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by kmhofmann

I won't call them liars outright but yes, I am venturing into "this is a vastly overinflated statement" scenario. Unless they raised Zulawski from the dead to approve the transfer (Nobel Prize and many other science prizes outright!), there is absolutely no way he could have had any say in the restoration that LCQF did, let alone approved anything directly. So, something has to be inaccurate in the statement.

Besides, "rightsholders" don't necessarily know anything about what look of a film is correct or how it looked at the time of release. "They", whoever they are, acquired the rights to release the movie at some point. It's unclear whether this is indeed Zulawski's estate or someone random that bought some rights to commission a restoration. Hence my question if you actually know who this is.
Thus, that's a pretty worthless part of that statement.

Zulawski could have outlined what a director-approved transfer would look like prior to his death. As you stated, you have no idea about the rights holders nor the situation itself, thus your assessment is the most "worthless" of all. I'll take Umbrella's and the rights holder's statement over random Second Sight fan on the internet, who has already admitted they have no idea about the circumstances surrounding the transfer.

And, it is undisputable that the LCQF/Umbrella transfer is an original theatrical presentation, while the Second Sight transfer is just another home video iteration.

Well, you're pretty much the only one with that opinion, fearlessly and repeatedly defending it in the respective thread to the point of excess.

Honest question: have you ever considered that the one with the odd-one-out opinions might be... you?

Nope, I think people were razzle-dazzled by the Second Sight's encoding and lack of damage and didn't stop to consider that the way they got there resulted in wrong colors and lighting. It is not hard to see at all, with even the slightest of investigation, as the Second Sight's colors are radically different than any of the previous Tobe Hooper-approved masters, and on top of that in numerous scenes the color artifacting results in physically impossible lighting scenarios that could only be achieved by digital color manipulation. I am more sensitive to those things though due to my experience in post processing, and its easily provable to someone with similar knowledge.

Also, no I'm not the only one. Several have moved on from the Second Sight due to its wrong color.